[StanDiego]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Hey, the last few posts have been more interesting than the first 100 or so.

[Amadeo]

Originally Posted by LoneStar

That is interesting, how much real weight is claimed in your EU CoC declaration? Not just weight, there is also a position "real mass"

My Z4 30i declared mass “Field G” (empty weight) which in Europe means with gas tank full and 1 person of 75 kg included is 1505 kg.( I believe in the US this weight is without driver).
So without gas and driver, it should be 1385 kg. I dont know if having more or less options from the factory is taken into account when they issue the EU declaration for each car.
Then maximum weight fully loaded “Field F” (Permissible total weight) 1740 kg in the vehicle registration document.

[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by StanDiego

I'm actually QUITE pleased with the performance of my 30i, from a standstill and accelerating at highway speeds to pass a car. I don't believe you'd be disappointed.

Technically with less weight in thr front, it should handle better in corners assuming it has the lsd and suspension of the 40.

If so. Maybe forget the straifht line acceleration and try to hit some curved roads and the track and try to graduate to taking corners at speeds over 120mph. It's possible the car can easily handle many long smooth corners at its maximum speeds, and extreme corners above 70. Try to graduate to that level because that's where the fun begins.

[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by Amadeo

My Z4 30i declared mass “Field G” (empty weight) which in Europe means with gas tank full and 1 person of 75 kg included is 1505 kg.( I believe in the US this weight is without driver).
So without gas and driver, it should be 1385 kg. I dont know if having more or less options from the factory is taken into account when they issue the EU declaration for each car.
Then maximum weight fully loaded “Field F” (Permissible total weight) 1740 kg in the vehicle registration document.

What matters most is curb weight. The curb weight of a z4 for example weighs like 600-720lbs LESS than the m4 x drive, meaning with the same fluids and similar sized person in the car, the weight difference will still.be 600-720lbs or 270-340kg. That's a huge difference especially in the z4 m40i that I tuned to 440 wheel horsepower (520hp at the crank on average) and 480-500wheel torque which is more than the new m4 I belive giving way way more acceleration especially at the bottom end from 0-100mph or 0-162kph than the heavier less torquey stock m4

[LoneStar]

Originally Posted by Amadeo

My Z4 30i declared mass “Field G” (empty weight) which in Europe means with gas tank full and 1 person of 75 kg included is 1505 kg.( I believe in the US this weight is without driver).
So without gas and driver, it should be 1385 kg. I dont know if having more or less options from the factory is taken into account when they issue the EU declaration for each car.
Then maximum weight fully loaded “Field F” (Permissible total weight) 1740 kg in the vehicle registration document.

in Germany there is an additional field (position 13.2) in the Certificate of Conformity (CoC), the real mass. My Z4 M40 with nothing special than parking assistant and HK weighs 1641 kg.

Edit: I have one data from a 30i with 18" and M Sport suspension:1545 kg real weight. It has no LSD, but sports brake, comfort access, HUD and other stuff, I wouldn't order in a sports car. In case of the 30i, not even the sports brake, because the standrad brake is more then sufficent.

So it is exactly 96kg ligther than my M40i.

[Amadeo]

Originally Posted by LoneStar

in Germany there is an additional field (position 13.2) in the Certificate of Conformity (CoC), the real mass. My Z4 M40 with nothing special than parking assistant and HK weighs 1641 kg.

Edit: I have one data from a 30i with 18" and M Sport suspension:1545 kg real weight. It has no LSD, but sports brake, comfort access, HUD and other stuff, I wouldn't order in a sports car. In case of the 30i, not even the sports brake, because the standrad brake is more then sufficent.

So it is exactly 96kg ligther than my M40i.

With all options, included lsd, adaptative suspension and sport brakes, 1505 kg in my European Certificate of Conformity.

[LoneStar]

Originally Posted by Amadeo

With all options, included lsd, adaptative suspension and sport brakes, 1505 kg in my European Certificate of Conformity.

I think this is the base weight without all options in your conformity - 1505 kg is the standard weight also from official data after EU rules.

Unfortunately, this is only a kind of baseline, in truth the cars have 5-8% more real weight even with some extras only. I guess, the manufactors share some wishful thinking on the round table and then decide into the blue. Take an F-Type for instance 4 or 6-banger: usually around 10-15% more weight than stated in the papers.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Fill the tank drive to the public scales, pay a few bucks, euros whatever, & weight the thing.

The only numbers that mean anything are the true weigh on the road with the driver up.

FWIW have never bothered to weigh the BMW's but the Cobra weighs 2368lb actual with 488whp by DynoJet. Debating specs does not mean much in the real world since the Germans lie about true power output.

Also think its meaningless comparing a tuned car against a stock one since the stock versions can also be tuned. Just depends on how much you want to spend & quite a few guys in the M3/4 board are spending the money. Most are coming in over 600whp & have AWD to put the power down.

[gkgeiger]

I can’t believe this thread has 141 replies.

[LoneStar]

it's a matter of facts;-)

Some are interested in, some not.

[stlcdr]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

…
Debating specs does not mean much in the real world since the Germans lie about true power output.
…

[takes glasses off in an overly flamboyant and lawyerly way]…are you saying, sir, that people lie about how much horsepower their cars have?!

I, am shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

[LoneStar]

Originally Posted by stlcdr

[takes glasses off in an overly flamboyant and lawyerly way]…are you saying, sir, that people lie about how much horsepower their cars have?!

I, am shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

German HPs are different to US‘

BTW: much HPs are no guarantee for driving fun

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by LoneStar

German HPs are different to US‘

BTW: much HPs are no guarantee for driving fun

It's not about the size of the wave, it's about the motion of the ocean. 😉

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by LoneStar

German HPs are different to US‘

BTW: much HPs are no guarantee for driving fun

Think you missed the point. BMW adds & stats presented in selling the cars deliberately understate the engine power of the cars by a significant amount.

Any dyno test of the cars quickly illustrates that. As for fun with horsepower you can use as much as fun as you want up to the limit of the car or your limit as a driver whichever comes first.

Z4/Supra tests

https://www.motor1.com/news/355876/2...-z4-dyno-test/

[blue135]

This horsepower understatement is not something BMW came up with. Go back to the late '60s-early '70s and look at the numbers GM & Chrysler advertised vs actual. I.e., there is a '69 Corvette coming up for auction, 435 hp advertised, actual well above 500 hp.

[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by blue135

This horsepower understatement is not something BMW came up with. Go back to the late '60s-early '70s and look at the numbers GM & Chrysler advertised vs actual. I.e., there is a '69 Corvette coming up for auction, 435 hp advertised, actual well above 500 hp.

Do those old cars actually put the power down properly? I feel like back then except on rare occasions most factory street cars that had high hp didn't put the power down good and or didn't do really good quarter miles or 0-60 (0-100kph) tests and were definitely awful in corners.

[Westside Guy]

IMHO, during the muscle car era with the GTO’s, 442’s, Dodges and Plymouth’s with the 426 Hemi, etc. it was the quarter mile time on a drag strip that was important.

[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

IMHO, during the muscle car era with the GTO’s, 442’s, Dodges and Plymouth’s with the 426 Hemi, etc. it was the quarter mile time on a drag strip that was important.

But they didn't even do that good despite the high horsepower.


Also many people have dynoed their classics where for example it's claimed to be 420hp but ends up being 300wheel or less

[StanDiego]

Someone needs to kill this off topic BS and put it out of its misery. Put your crank back in your pants and try to offer some objective advice on the topic.

P.S. Happy New Year you wicked bastards! May your Zed live long and prosper!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by DavesZupra4

Do those old cars actually put the power down properly? I feel like back then except on rare occasions most factory street cars that had high hp didn't put the power down good and or didn't do really good quarter miles or 0-60 (0-100kph) tests and were definitely awful in corners.

Was the lack of good street tires. As said they were mostly quarter horses & there was a major difference between Red Lines, Wide Ovals & drag slicks.



Handling was still a sports car thing & high powered sports cars ran track tires on the track & suffered like all the other cars on street tires.

Stronger Cobras came with GoodYear Blue Streak tires which was a lot like the currant NITTO NT-01 performance lines

Closest non sports cars came to handling were the Trans-Am series pony cars.

[DavesZupra4]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Was the lack of good street tires. As said they were mostly quarter horses & there was a major difference between Red Lines, Wide Ovals & drag slicks.



Handling was still a sports car thing & high powered sports cars ran track tires on the track & suffered like all the other cars on street tires.

Stronger Cobras came with GoodYear Blue Streak tires which was a lot like the currant NITTO NT-01 performance lines

Closest non sports cars came to handling were the Trans-Am series pony cars.

The nittos are real good and sticky even though I don't use them. I just looked at the Goodyear blue streaks they look like they could suddenly explode on a driver due to anything lol.

[LoneStar]

please close this thread.