[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by supra93

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...shots-germany/

Surprise. BMW build vehicles for right hand drive markets and are considered even in development to get the product right for that particular market. Whether it is suspension settings or enabling the chassis to cope with - example the UKs endless miles of pot-holed roads.
BMW prototype development even takes place in the UK including Scotland and Wales. But also in South Africa,Australia and Japan.

[Ratutory]

@ Scott........when can we expect to see the first official photos of the new Z4? Any word on an M version or a coupe?

[ShocknAwe]

Wow, I dislike this more than I thought I would. Fingers crossed for a good followup to the E89 Coupe.

[kv12]

I think I read from Scott at some points in the past the Z5 will resemble the Vision Connected Drive... The tail lights I think will be shaped similar to my very very crude render below. The false bodypanels and reflective red tape in these pics makes the rear shaped like the current Z4, but in fact it's hiding something different underneath.

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Who worries about luggage space when thinking about roadsters? LMAO.

Says a lot that the 2 premium sportscar brands Ferrari and McLaren have both opted for the better hardtop versions instead of stubbornly sticking to the past, and that's for mid-engines, even harder to design vs conventionals. W/ the adv in tech, no compromise req'd, hardtop is better and lighter.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. However, ask any ragtop owner and they will say for sure top down is the better looking mode whereas for hardtops, it's virtually the same up/down.

As 'ugly' as you think the Cali is, imagine it w/ a rag? Even worse.

I agree, the hardtop may be more modern, it hasn't always looked good though.
And the entire idea of having a top heavy convertible - as the hardtop is, yes, the metal roof is heavier than the cloth.
The proportions also are lot harder to get right using metal.
It's was almost a fahion thingy using hardtops's, but softop's are coming back, it's the classic, light, easy of use and easy to design right option. I've had it on a E36 convertible, and alot have happened since then.

[tranquility]

I'm not a huge convertible fan even though I have one, and I find the wt argument laughable, it's gonna be much heavier vs a coupe regardless of rag/hard-top. Hardtops are only gonna get lighter and some are already lighter than rags, not to mention better looks and insulation and image.

Btw, using 3-series as an argument against hardtops is silly, that thing has way too many panels and it even shows exposed rivets/latches!!!! Ofc that's an easy target lol.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tranquility

No they don't, rags are quite unattractive. Anyway, I'll call you and raise w/ the 488 Spider, Maccas, etc etc etc.

Face it, rags are old-tech, poor insulation, etc etc etc. Embrace having metal for a roof, the way it was meant to be.

Aka- buy a coupe ?

[supra93]

Online rumors are saying the unveiling will take place at this year Geneva auto show.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

Aka- buy a coupe ?

Yup, coupes are the best if you want to max out in performance, besides looking better than ragtops. Hardtops make the decision harder since the looks are similar, but ofc still worse performance vs a coupe.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Yup, coupes are the best if you want to max out in performance, besides looking better than ragtops. Hardtops make the decision harder since the looks are similar, but ofc still worse performance vs a coupe.

actually.. I was referring to your soft top complaint...

Seeing as the protypes are out with a soft top... and BMW probably isn't going to change their mind and manufacture a hard top.... and you want a hard top ....

Originally Posted by tranquility

<snip> Says a lot that the 2 premium sportscar brands Ferrari and McLaren have both opted for the better hardtop versions instead of stubbornly sticking to the past,

what manufacturer is " stubbornly sticking to the past " ? Pretty sure you aren't referring to BMW here..

BMW Z3 - soft top
BMW Z4- - soft top and then hard top
BMW Z5 - soft top ..

BMW 1 series - soft top
BMW 2 series - soft top

BMW E46 3 series - soft top
BMW E90 3 series - hard top
BMW F80 4 series - hard top

BMW E63 6 series - soft top
BMW F12 6 series - soft top - " advanced BMW soft top technology "

It's quite interesting that as justification for why you feel that the Z5 should be a hard top.. that you quote two models that probably cost upwards of 4X what the Z5 MSRP will be

[tranquility]

^Dude, all I'm just saying hardtops are getting better and the wt argument is not a big issue since it's a vert either way. It's a better material vs rags and ofc looks much better.

Are you saying Z5 may be a hardtop? How can that be?

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tranquility

^Dude, all I'm just saying hardtops are getting better and the wt argument is not a big issue since it's a vert either way. It's a better material vs rags and ofc looks much better.

Are you saying Z5 may be a hardtop? How can that be?

sorry.. no I just edited it.. it will be a soft top..

all I am saying is ... clearly BMW has EMBRACED the folding hard top and made a DECISION to use it in some models and not in others..

you on the other hand... in your enthusiasm for the hard top.. lost sight of the fact that BMW continues to utilize both soft and hard tops..


Personally.. I can see both why both are appealing.

for a DAILY DRIVEN vehicle... I think that most people would prefer a hard top (all things being equal)
For a weekend vehicle.... it's probably not so important to have a hard top

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

all I am saying is ... clearly BMW has EMBRACED the folding hard top and made a DECISION to use it in some models and not in others..


you on the other hand... in your enthusiasm for the hard top.. lost sight of the fact that BMW continues to utilize both soft and hard tops..

Well, I obviously wasn't referring to BMW but rather some minds that insist upon the old ways.

Also, I do wish for some consistency, but that's too much to expect.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by ron_jeremy

I agree, the hardtop may be more modern, it hasn't always looked good though.
And the entire idea of having a top heavy convertible - as the hardtop is, yes, the metal roof is heavier than the cloth.
The proportions also are lot harder to get right using metal.
It was almost a fashion thing using hardtops's, but softop's are coming back, it's the classic, light, easy of use and easy to design right option. I've had it on a E36 convertible, and alot have happened since then.

totally agree here.. the Lexus SC430 started it all..

[tranquility]

Wasn't it the SLK that started the hardtop thing? Btw, it's not only a 'fashion' thing, but a move to make it more upscale/functional, as many are turned-off by the rag for obvious reasons. Like I said, the rag is just an afterthought, meh, just finish the car, poof, put a rag on it and it's done. Sell to customers.

EDIT:
Anyway, it's great some of you guys love the traditional way. I'm curious what the %age increase from coupe to convertible is, as I suspect that the gap is huge for that vs from rag to hard-top.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Wasn't it the SLK that started the hardtop thing? Btw, it's not only a 'fashion' thing, but a move to make it more upscale/functional, as many are turned-off by the rag for obvious reasons. Like I said, the rag is just an afterthought, meh, just finish the car, poof, put a rag on it and it's done. Sell to customers.

good question I don't have time for..

here's what Wiki says..

one of the first[citation needed] modern[vague] retractable hardtop convertibles, the SLK joined others of this era including the 1995 Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder, the Peugeot 306 Cabriolet, the Lexus SC, the Pontiac G6, and the Chrysler Sebring.

The Lexus SC came out in 2001 and the SLK in 1996 but it sounds like the Mitsu 3000 GT came earlier than both.. not gonna research the others.
Indeed.. the Lexus.. the Merc. and the Chyrsler Sebring all were attempting to make fashion statements.

So.. it's been 20 years... and many manufacturers appear to be going back to soft tops.. go figure..

[wdb]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

totally agree here.. the Lexus SC430 started it all..

What?

[tranquility]

^Whoa!

As for 'go figure', that's the easiest way to do a vert, no brainer, really.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I'm not a huge convertible fan even though I have one, and I find the wt argument laughable, it's gonna be much heavier vs a coupe regardless of rag/hard-top. Hardtops are only gonna get lighter and some are already lighter than rags, not to mention better looks and insulation and image.

Btw, using 3-series as an argument against hardtops is silly, that thing has way too many panels and it even shows exposed rivets/latches!!!! Ofc that's an easy target lol.

FWIW, the E85 vert weighs less than the E86 coupe. Only around 30 lbs iirc, but still...

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

FWIW, the E85 vert weighs less than the E86 coupe. Only around 30 lbs iirc, but still...

Ya, that's because it was developed 1st as a vert, so big difference...same for Boxster/Cayman, me thinks? The 30lbs is basically the added roof; I still wanted it, but alas. Sexy cars.

Anyway, usually, coupes are much lighter than their vert siblings.

[ORIGIN M.]

The upcoming 4er Convertible will be a Ragtop as well.

Ragtops are timeless.

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

actually.. I was referring to your soft top complaint...

Seeing as the protypes are out with a soft top... and BMW probably isn't going to change their mind and manufacture a hard top.... and you want a hard top ....



what manufacturer is " stubbornly sticking to the past " ? Pretty sure you aren't referring to BMW here..

BMW Z3 - soft top
BMW Z4- - soft top and then hard top
BMW Z5 - soft top ..

BMW 1 series - soft top
BMW 2 series - soft top

BMW E46 3 series - soft top
BMW E90 3 series - hard top
BMW F80 4 series - hard top

BMW E63 6 series - soft top
BMW F12 6 series - soft top - " advanced BMW soft top technology "

It's quite interesting that as justification for why you feel that the Z5 should be a hard top.. that you quote two models that probably cost upwards of 4X what the Z5 MSRP will be

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

The upcoming 4er Convertible will be a Ragtop as well.

Ragtops are timeless.

Perhaps ragtop vehicles are timeless , but the tops are not. They definitely can wear out.

I've been impressed though with the ones I have owned and they have been good until 15 years of age.

Thanks for the info on the upcoming 4 series... ! so ... that being the case ... then None of the lineup will be a hardtop anymore ?
That's saying something.