[Nomana]

This is what I see. I think it's ugly. it reminds me of how Lexus messed up with their late model headlights.

Hope what i see is wrong.
Sorry for my kindergarten painting.

[tranquility]

Doesn't matter if the rest of the car is amazing. That ragtop is just horrible. Make it a coupe w/o a convertible option even. No more rags, get w/ the prg!

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Exactly, they could've done a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better job. Everything is 1/2-assed, e.g. idrive behind other series, engines should be *noticeably* better than other series, NOT comparable or even weaker!!! ...and stop making the freaking cars bigger/heavier/softer!!! This is supposedly the sportiest series and least practical (read: carefree) of all Bimmers.

I can't wait to hate on this thing either, but let's at least wait until we know a single thing about the car first

[Slow///1]

Just make it weigh <3000lbs and everyone will get over the soft top IMO.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Nomana

This is what I see. I think it's ugly. it reminds me of how Lexus messed up with their late model headlights.

Hope what i see is wrong.
Sorry for my kindergarten painting.

I love it when people get red mist over a car still in camo Those guys that do this must just laugh all day long at reactions such as yours.

[krautmeister]

Looks like a porkier S2000....

Usually I love pork... but I'll reserve judgement until it's out.

[Red Bread]

Coupes are prettier than convertibles, but soft tops ALWAYS look better than folding hardtops. And they leave trunk space. Good that they're going back to soft.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Coupes are prettier than convertibles, but soft tops ALWAYS look better than folding hardtops. And they leave trunk space. Good that they're going back to soft.

Hellz to the no, ragtops are rags, like an afterthought w/ the carmaker saying "meh, we got no more budget, just put a fabric on it, done!"

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Hellz to the no, ragtops are rags, like an afterthought w/ the carmaker saying "meh, we got no more budget, just put a fabric on it, done!"

Boxster, 911, F Type look better than any SLC, Z4 or the ugly duckling F33/F83. Bentley and Roller don't monkey around with folding tin tops and Fezza's is ugly as sin.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Boxster, 911, F Type look better than any SLC, Z4 or the ugly duckling F33/F83. Bentley and Roller don't monkey around with folding tin tops and Fezza's is ugly as sin.

No they don't, rags are quite unattractive. Anyway, I'll call you and raise w/ the 488 Spider, Maccas, etc etc etc.

Face it, rags are old-tech, poor insulation, etc etc etc. Embrace having metal for a roof, the way it was meant to be.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by tranquility

No they don't, rags are quite unattractive. Anyway, I'll call you and raise w/ the 488 Spider, Maccas, etc etc etc.

Face it, rags are old-tech, poor insulation, etc etc etc. Embrace having metal for a roof, the way it was meant to be.

I do, with a coupe. Convertibles are meant to be compromises and work fine with a coupe. A convertible Macca or Fezza is a sign that you have so many cars that you're okay with compromised ones. Nothing wrong with that, but ultimately, covering small spaces can be done okay with metal, but larger spaces work better with cloth. A 2er convertible looks better than a 4er convertible, as does a 6er.

This won't be a small car, or rear engined. Think California. A turd of a folding hardtop. Larger folding tops require a ridiculously high rear deck height, ala California or F83, and eat up all the trunk space when the roof is down, which for me, it was 340+ days of the year. Why would I want to carry around a few extra hundred pounds in the trunk?

[tranquility]

Who worries about luggage space when thinking about roadsters? LMAO.

Says a lot that the 2 premium sportscar brands Ferrari and McLaren have both opted for the better hardtop versions instead of stubbornly sticking to the past, and that's for mid-engines, even harder to design vs conventionals. W/ the adv in tech, no compromise req'd, hardtop is better and lighter.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. However, ask any ragtop owner and they will say for sure top down is the better looking mode whereas for hardtops, it's virtually the same up/down.

As 'ugly' as you think the Cali is, imagine it w/ a rag? Even worse.

[Red Bread]

The California with a ragtop would have a lower rear deck and look more like the gorgeous 575 convertible.

And why are we talking about $300k mid engine Fezza and Macca cars when discussing a five figure BMW? BMW has never made anything remotely comparable.

Z3 and first gen Z4 sales were better than the current Z4. Sometimes simpler and lighter is better.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

The California with a ragtop would have a lower rear deck and look more like the gorgeous 575 convertible.

And why are we talking about $300k mid engine Fezza and Macca cars when discussing a five figure BMW? BMW has never made anything remotely comparable.

Z3 and first gen Z4 sales were better than the current Z4. Sometimes simpler and lighter is better.

Nothing to do w/ price, just w/ tech and the leaders deciding to go w/ the superior hardtop option, that's it.

Cali has some design flaws but, again, still better looking vs a rag.

No idea re sales figures but BMW really screwed up and obviously didn't care about the E89. Could've been much better. Still one of the better lookers out there and it's a hardtop.

[Red Bread]

It's amusing that you feel heavier, more complicated cars are the answer. I suppose I know where you stand on how many pedals any car should have too. We clearly have different opinions about this and won't change each other's minds.

That's cool, there will certainly be options for you going forward, just glad to see an old school option from BMW, when so much of what they've been doing recently has been about technology over engagement.

[tranquility]

How's it more complicated? Basically change the material, mech's comparable.

Anyway, exactly, knew you'd be the 'macho' 3 pedal dude coming a mile away lol. That's fine, enjoy while it last. Me? I'm no retrogrouch. Metal>rag and future's on my side.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by F87LUV

I don't know why so many people knock the current Z4. It looks infinitely better than an slk or tt. Is it overpriced? Absolutely. But I don't mind that they're uncommon. Of course, I'm biased as I'm on my third one. I have the M sport package and M6 reps and it looks pretty damn sporty to me!

That being said, I would kill for a redesigned Z4M coupe. I hope BMW listens!

I would love a new ZMC as well.

The main problem, for me, with the current Z4 is in the steering. Really numb and not at all consistent with what the car portrays itself to be - at least the 35i version I drove a few years ago.

I thought it looked sexy as hell, especially with the top down, but the driving experience fell short of what I had grown accustomed to in my dad's Z4MC - so it was a pretty big letdown from that perspective.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Boxster, 911, F Type look better than any SLC, Z4 or the ugly duckling F33/F83. Bentley and Roller don't monkey around with folding tin tops and Fezza's is ugly as sin.

I think the weight component of the ragtop is also important - you've always got additional machinery to operate the top, plus the strengthening that appears in most vert doors, so they have to try and offset that somewhere - one good place is by having a ragtop roof.

My buddy had a 997 C2S with a ragtop and it looked the business - that car is what got me to test drive a Porsche in the first place.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

In place of an Z4M you got the 1er M Coupe.

My dad had a Z4MC - I've driven the 1M many times, very fun and interesting car, but no replacement for the Z4MC. Just isn't.

[jts1981]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Boxster, 911, F Type look better than any SLC, Z4 or the ugly duckling F33/F83. Bentley and Roller don't monkey around with folding tin tops and Fezza's is ugly as sin.

Just an fyi...the F-Type is a metal roof with a fabric skin, not the traditional folding fabric top. Also in terms of trunk space, my Z has way more space with the top DOWN than the F Type has UP. I daily my Z and use it for road trips. I never had an issue with luggage, or groceries.

But I see you point in regards to aesthetic. Its a matter of opinion.

For the guys that think a soft top will reduce the weight dramatically are in for a rude awakening. Navigation, parking assist, heated seats, safety equipment, etc are all the heavy creature comforts that we love. Shedding a few lbs on the roof won't make up for extra equipment.

[supra93]

If you see a photo of an automaker's test vehicle, generally, you can easily tell what it is, even if it's wearing thick camouflage. In this case, though, we're not 100-percent positive. That said, we've got a hunch that this is BMW's upcoming Z5 roadster.

This prototype was spotted on a German Autobahn by Redditor WebTheWorldwide, who posted some additional pictures you should check out on Imgur. At a very quick first glance, it has a few Jaguar-ish features, but take a closer look at the details, and you'll notice many BMW hallmarks.

The first clue is the German registration plate—it starts with "M," indicating that the car is registered in BMW's hometown of Munich. Previous spy shots of the upcoming BMW Z5 roadster and its Toyota platform-mate, widely believed to be a new Supra, wear similar registration plates. The shape of this test mule's doors also matches that of the Z5 and Supra prototypes previously spied.

As one Redditor points out, this test car's mirrors look strikingly similar to those on the current-generation BMW 3-Series, and the camouflage pattern matches that of other BMWs caught by spy photographers. This car's tail looks different from other Z5/Supras in previous spy shots, but it's similar to the outgoing BMW Z4.

With that evidence, we're pretty sure this is a BMW Z5 prototype. But what's confounding is that it's right-hand drive. It seems unusual that BMW would use a right-hand drive test mule in left-drive Germany, but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

So it's probably a Z5, unless BMW has some super-secret other roadster that we haven't heard of before. This new German roadster is set to hit production in 2018, so we'll probably see it sans-camouflage sooner than later.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...shots-germany/

[krnnerdboy]

glad to see the soft top coming back!