[supra93]

Here are the blueprints for both the F10 and G30.

[86Zed]

Originally Posted by The HACK

One thing that's more obvious with the G29 Z4 than most of the other recent BMW offerings...

Here's an E86 Z4 Coupe:



But the biggest impact is still having more of the engine's mass over the actual steering wheels. One of the reasons why many journalists like the 228i over the M235i is because the 4 banger has the entire engine sit behind the front axle, leading to a much quicker set up front and better and more accurate steering wheel movement to turn-in response. Oddly, by moving the wheels back and having the engine sit right on top of the front axle will actually improve the front end grip, at the expense of actual feel/responsiveness of steering.

1. that /M coupe is gorgeous!

2. I wholeheartedly agree. 37K miles of 228i ownership and seat time in the M235i and M2 has shown how big of a factor engine placement and balance can make.

Glad to see BMW continuing the Z4 platform, but it has lacked any real character since 2008. I am hopeful that the BMW & Toyota partnership brings a car more similar to the M2 / FT-86 than the recent E89 Z4 / RCF.

[supra93]

Blueprints of the E86 vs E89.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by supra93

Blueprints of the E86 vs E89.

The E85/6 have similar wheelbase as the E89. The front and rear overhang had both grown on the Z4 in each subsequent generation if the technical drawings are all we have to go on.

The 5er for sure have a significant front overhang growth.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by 86Zed

1. that /M coupe is gorgeous!

You know, if BMW just did NOTHING but to bring the E85/6 chassis back, I think we'd have a winner.

Just throw the new engines and transmission under the hood, use the existing E85/6 suspension front and rear and be done with it.



12 years later this car still look BETTER than most of BMW's offering today IMO. I'd take this over the G29 any day.

[jts1981]

Originally Posted by The HACK

You know, if BMW just did NOTHING but to bring the E85/6 chassis back, I think we'd have a winner.

Just throw the new engines and transmission under the hood, use the existing E85/6 suspension front and rear and be done with it.



12 years later this car still look BETTER than most of BMW's offering today IMO. I'd take this over the G29 any day.

The e86 rear w/ e89-ish front. I hate the lazy look of the e85 headlights.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by The HACK

The E85/6 have similar wheelbase as the E89. The front and rear overhang had both grown on the Z4 in each subsequent generation if the technical drawings are all we have to go on.

The 5er for sure have a significant front overhang growth.

When it comes to the 5 series, according the blueprints they are roughly the same. When making a comparison you need to use photos taken at the same angle as well as the same camera lens. Other wise seeing them both in person side by side is the next best thing.

The Z4 looks like it gain the most overhang from the rear. Again, that photo you posted of the blue coupe flavors the rear and makes the front look super short.

[supra93]

If we must do photo comparisons, than lets at least use stock photos.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by supra93

When it comes to the 5 series, according the blueprints they are roughly the same.

What?! According to the technical diagram ALL the growth in the overall length came in the front overhang. The new 5er is 26mm longer overall, and the front overhang is longer by 26mm. Basically the rest of the car stayed, and all the length is added up front.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by The HACK

What?! According to the technical diagram ALL the growth in the overall length came in the front overhang. The new 5er is 26mm longer overall, and the front overhang is longer by 26mm. Basically the rest of the car stayed, and all the length is added up front.

That is like an inch, it isn't the end of the world.

Same goes for the Z4. Differences is 27mm, or 1.06 inch. Now the rear gained 120mm or 4.2 inches.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by supra93

That is like an inch, it isn't the end of the world.

I keep telling my wife that.

The problem isn't that it's just an inch (gawd I can't keep a freakin' straight face typing that), but where that inch is and what percentage of that is the growth in the overhang. That's 3% of the overhang. Say each subsequent generation grows another 3%, compounded in 3 generations that growth will exceed 12.5%. The G28 is already 2 generation removed from the E85/6, and as we can see in the G29, the front overhang growth is likely more than 10% compared to the E85/6.

To my earlier point, the problem with the growing front overhang is where the engine is placed in relation to that front axle, and the amount of room available for caster angle. If you've ever had the luck to drive an MZ4 vs. E46 M3, and drive it angry, you'll immediately notice that the MZ4 had incredible front end response. That steering is telepathic. It does whatever you tell it to (whether it's good or not) and tells you exactly what it's doing. The MZ4 and the E46 M3 share a ton of parts, for the MZ4 to be THAT much more responsive up front has quite a few reasons (200+ weight differential, shorter wheelbase, E36 M3 based steering rack...etc). But primarily it's because the S54 sits a few "inches" further back of the front axle on the MZ4, and because of that, the MZ4 had the luxury of having SIGNIFICANTLY more front caster than the E46 M3.

I was fortunate enough to own an MZ4 Coupe, Z4 3.0i, E46 323Ci, and a Z3 1.9L, and I'll tell you this. You can't beat having the engine as far back as possible on a front engine design, and you can't beat massive caster angles on a MacPherson Strut based front end on a sports car. That caster angle creates camber changes and improve weight transfer while cornering. Here's another example:





These are static shots (car's not moving) of a corner balanced MZ4 Coupe. Notice how much LOWER the driver's side is compared to the passenger side (look at the wheel gap)? It's because the massive front caster forces the outside (driver's) suspension to compress while lifting the inside (passenger's) suspension*.

This is the biggest benefit of continuing to push the front wheels out as far as possible and keeping the front overhang as small as possible. You can put massive caster on a MacPherson strut that causes this natural static camber change as you turn. 2º of additional caster on the E85/6 chassis over the E46, only achieved by minimizing overhang and pushing the engine as far back as possible.

While this discussion is all "academic" at this point, since BMW has already done the bulk of their chassis development for the G29. The problem points to a larger, overall trend within BMW itself, that they've continued to compromise sporty handling for more "comfort," to a point that these newer chassis are cruisers first, carvers second.

* The E86 chassis is so gosh darn stiff (32,500Nm/º of deflection) that raising the front suspension also raises the rear suspension. You can tell from the shot that the entire passenger side sits higher, both front and back.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I keep telling my wife that.

Some's mind went into the gutter.

This is all I know about the topic on hand.

The Concept Z4 is bigger than the current model, with a longer wheelbase and wider tracks. BMW rethought the proportions in a bid to provide it with a more focused look. “A shorter bonnet and crisp overhangs ensure the driver sits closer to the centre of the car than in previous BMW roadsters,” said van Hooydonk.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/m...sign-direction

[Jason]

Update: February 6, 2018

Here are some of the most detailed information yet on the Supra (and in effect, the G29 Z4), just posted by trusty source ynguldyn.

• Three engines (EU-only 195hp 20i, 255hp 30i, and 335hp 40i - and this means the 380hp Z4 M40i will be offered only by BMW and only in North America and a few other non-EU markets).
• Intro later this year, common sense suggests it will be simultaneous with Z4.
• It will be Toyota in name and body design only - everything inside the car is the same familiar BMW stuff: same options, same colors, same interior materials.
• Speaking of colors, it feels almost like a throwback to the 00s: Glacier Silver, Atacama Yellow, and Crimson Red are coming back, though there'll also be a new matte gray.
• For the interior, you'll be able to choose between fabric, alcantara, and leather, and (the gods have heard us!) all of these choices will be available in the U.S.
• Wheels: 17" standard with 18" and 19" optional on 20i and 30i, 18" standard and 19" optional on 40i.
• 40i gets standard M sport diff, while on 30i it will be optional in something that BMW would call "ZMP".
• Market positioning for the car seems to be distinctly lower than BMW, for example, the barebones 30i will have manual seat adjustments and no nav system.
• And, finally (que the sad trombone): all models are automatic only.

[aajami]

Autotragic only ?

[prime300]

All models are automatic only...LOL what a joke that car for sure won't fit the " The ultimate driving machine" category

[LemonOne]

Funny

[stefan]

Automatic only lol. demographic research failure.

[Arcades]

I like the concept more. It's more angular, production seems too round... hm

[canadianbimmerlover]

No manuals. I guess I'll keep all the manuals I have...

[PARTS@STBMW]

Those grilles

[ice31]

I already have the $ waiting for the Z4, but they had to disappoint me didn't they :

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by ice31

I already have the $ waiting for the Z4, but they had to disappoint me didn't they :

The production car has not even been revealed yet so why don't you hold on before you get your panties all bunched up. Good Lord!