[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by supra93

Is this rendering pretty close?

I hope not- especially the grill.

[GuidoK]

Indeed not sure about the grille, but I like the overall shape of the car.
low slung, compact, wide.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Any full ///M/TRD/F really only make sense if the BMW is a Coupe and the Toyota/Lexus a roadster.

Right hand drive, good to see!

[supra93]

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Someone here said it would get a transaxle (so def. not (current) bmw tech), but posted a picture of it and that turned out to be a transaxle from an LFA (a bit too expensive for a z4 I imagine )

But maybe the better question is, will it predominantly be a german car or a japanese car.
Will the tranmission be made by Toyota's long long partner Aisin or will it come from ZF/Getrag? (BMW's OEM)
Same goes for shocks (Sachs or Tokico? KYB?), suspension arms/bushings, driveshafts, etc etc.
Car manufacturers ususally have OEMS with working relations going back 50 years or more. Thats not going to be easy to give up.

My guess is that, as they will both be build in Austria, it will most likely be made of BMW tech (or better said: german engineering/OEM's). But thats just a speculation.

I was the one and the image of the Aisin LF-A unit was solely due to the FT-1 concepts using that specific unit.

The transmission positioning may be exclusive to the type (Coupe vs Roadster) or even limited to future variants (High Performance - Hybrid).

From the public photos, the only auto-box so far is from ZF (due to the ZF only Gear Selector - Aisin and Borg Warner/Getrag are different). ZF does offer the 8HP in a FMR Transaxle. The 8P (Planetary Dual-Clutch) and 8DT (Conventional Dual-Clutch) module can also be used.

[GuidoK]

Yes I know ZF also has a transaxle box but that is I think used for midengine configs, not a front engine-rear gearbox config.
And I've also seen interior mule pictures with a manual.
They would have to mount that too to the transaxle somehow.
So I see quite some engineering hurdles for that.

I'm not convinced it will get a transaxle. Unless they've developed a complete new line of transmissions for this project. Its possible of course but very difficult for a car that has such low volume potential that they've teamed up with another manufacturer.
I guess we'll see
My money is still very much on current bmw tech (so probably no transaxle), although letting it be fabricated at steyr gives more flexibility platform wise. In that scope it might get getrag technology, because you know who owns Getrag....
Getrag does have a true dual clutch transaxle box, a very very very nice one, but not a manual. And again I suspect that Getrag transaxle to be too expensive (used in ferraris, merc SLS and the like...)

I understand now that the lfa transaxle pic had nothing to do with your reaction concerning the z4.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Yes I know ZF also has a transaxle box but that is I think used for midengine configs, not a front engine-rear gearbox config.
And I've also seen interior mule pictures with a manual.
They would have to mount that too to the transaxle somehow.
So I see quite some engineering hurdles for that.

I'm not convinced it will get a transaxle. Unless they've developed a complete new line of transmissions for this project. Its possible of course but very difficult for a car that has such low volume potential that they've teamed up with another manufacturer.
I guess we'll see
My money is still very much on current bmw tech (so probably no transaxle), although letting it be fabricated at steyr gives more flexibility platform wise. In that scope it might get getrag technology, because you know who owns Getrag....
Getrag does have a true dual clutch transaxle box, a very very very nice one, but not a manual. And again I suspect that Getrag transaxle to be too expensive (used in ferraris, merc SLS and the like...)

I understand now that the lfa transaxle pic had nothing to do with your reaction concerning the z4.

The ZF Units have no problem with Front/Front Mid. In fact that's where it's used. A manual wouldn't necessarily be an issue (Aston Martin VH Models) and ZF has a 7MT Transaxle that can be integrated with no effort.



Getrag does in-fact have a 7 Speed Manual. The 7DCL/T uses that transmission with BorgWarner Clutch Assembly, GWS, and Mechatronics.

That said, it's most likely the Z4 is going to be placed conventionally and the Supra with Transaxle. ZF would be the exclusive supplier to take advantage of the modularity benefits.

[GuidoK]

^still that pic too would seem to me as a piece fo hardware way to expensive for a ~$60k car.
And the supra having a different drivetrain layout than the z4 seems very very complicated and cumbersome to make within 1 platform, having to need different subframes and the lot.
Possible... sure, but imo unlikely for a car/platform that has been struggeling for money for 5 years or so where multiple manufacturers had to team up to get a sufficient potential customer base. Usually that screams partsbin (certainly in this day and age of multimarket universal platforms) and not extensive development of custom tech.
But it would be quite a stunt if bmw/toyota could pull something like this.

[AGAV13]

I hate these stupid square exhaust finishers. Give me pipes or give me death.

[advantage20]

The air conditioning vents are the same as on the 8 Series prototypes, I hope they will ultimately be differentiated.

[advantage20]

Originally Posted by supra93

Another question, so with one I6 offered do y'all think the new Z will be like the current Z4 were we have a 35i and a higher grader 35is with a little extra power?

Logically the Z4's range structure and specifically the engine offering will mimic the other current and future models bearing the 3/4 number. Meaning a potential (but in this case unlikely) 6 cylinder M version sitting on top, followed by a (in this case top of the range) 6 cylinder M40i M Performance version, followed by a 4 cylinder 30i mid/entry level regular version. Therefore no non-M Performance 6 cylinder.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by advantage20

Therefore no non-M Performance 6 cylinder.

I think by the time the z4 finally sits in the showroom, every bmw model with every engine variant will be 'M performance' labeled

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by advantage20

Logically the Z4's range structure and specifically the engine offering will mimic the other current and future models bearing the 3/4 number. Meanina a potential (but in this case unlikely) 6 cylinder M version sitting on top, followed by a (in this case top of the range) 6 cylinder M40i M Performance version, followed by a 4 cylinder 30i mid/entry level regular version. Therefore no non-M Performance 6 cylinder.

We already know what's loaded in for the near future...

HF01,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF02,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF03,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF11,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive20i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF12,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive20i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF21,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive20i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF22,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive20i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF31,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive30i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF32,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive30i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF33,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive30i,ROA,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF41,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive30i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF42,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive30i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF43,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive30i,ROA,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF51,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF52,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF62,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF71,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive20i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF81,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 sDrive20i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
HF91,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF92,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,
HF93,P,BMW PKW,Z',G29,Z4 M40i,ROA,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,

[GuidoK]

^that list is not conclusive. That would mean that even for the m40i there will be a manual transmission. But thats not a certainty.

That list comes from I think from a file uploaded somewhere here to bimmerpost (I saw that file too).
And in that same file there were also model codes for an e89 35is with manual transmission.
And that car was for instance never offered/made.
For every 'possibility' they made a model code. Doesnt mean it will be made (of course I hope they will )

But still everything what advantage20 says is conform that list, apart from what he says the 'unlikely z4m'.
That could come with the facelift/later (as they have done with the z3 and e85 z4)....or not

Would be interesting to know what planned difference would be between model code HF51 and HF91 though, probably manual and DTC?
And the difference between HF62 and HF02 (there are more similar european automatic versions)? in what way would they differ?

But as it looks like the toyota will only come with 1 transmission, not a manual one....

[bunker]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

Sure as f**k better not look like that. U put the 5er nose on the damn thing.

[AKRAPOVICOWNS]

Originally Posted by bunker

Sure as f**k better not look like that. U put the 5er nose on the damn thing.

It won't

[supra93]

Originally Posted by lemetier

We already know what's loaded in for the near future...

DB21,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 30i,COU,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB22,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 30i,COU,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB23,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 30i,COU,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB41,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 40i,COU,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB42,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 40i,COU,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB43,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 40i,COU,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB81,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 20i,COU,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,
DB82,P,TOYOTA,,J29,SPX 20i,COU,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,

Thanks for posting that. I shared it on a few other forums and Toyota fan boys don't seem to be to happy lol.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

^that list is not conclusive. That would mean that even for the m40i there will be a manual transmission. But thats not a certainty.

That list comes from I think from a file uploaded somewhere here to bimmerpost (I saw that file too).
And in that same file there were also model codes for an e89 35is with manual transmission.
And that car was for instance never offered/made.
For every 'possibility' they made a model code. Doesnt mean it will be made (of course I hope they will )

But still everything what advantage20 says is conform that list, apart from what he says the 'unlikely z4m'.
That could come with the facelift/later (as they have done with the z3 and e85 z4)....or not

Would be interesting to know what planned difference would be between model code HF51 and HF91 though, probably manual and DTC?
And the difference between HF62 and HF02 (there are more similar european automatic versions)? in what way would they differ?

But as it looks like the toyota will only come with 1 transmission, not a manual one....

I did pull that from here solely out of convenience. It wouldn't be my first choice as someone made that on their own by extracting SQLdatabases from eSys. It isn't an internal document. You brought up a perfect example of how that list can be extremely misleading because it equally contains too much and too little data.

The E89 Z4 sDrive 35iS Global Standards Type Certificates that were used are actually these:

LM11,P,BMW PKW,Z',E89,Z4 sDrive35is,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,

LM12,P,BMW PKW,Z',E89,Z4 sDrive35is,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,

LM13,P,BMW PKW,Z',E89,Z4 sDrive35is,ROA,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,MECH,,,,

On the TC Application, transmission type choices are Mechanical, Hydraulic, Pneumatic, Electric, or Other. DKG does not have a torque converter so it is classified as Mechanical. This creates an issue with certain control modules and Workshop Software Programs. In order to run specific tests and perform Software Changes on DKG equipped vehicles, a Type Code for Automatic has to be substituted in. For those occasions these are used:

LM21,P,BMW PKW,Z',E89,Z4 sDrive35is,ROA,,,EUR,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,

LM22,P,BMW PKW,Z',E89,Z4 sDrive35is,ROA,,,EUR,RL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,

LM23,P,BMW PKW,Z',E89,Z4 sDrive35is,ROA,,,USA,LL,RWD,2,AUT,,,,

The differences on the G29 are a bit more complicated. One possibility is the dummy Type Code when a non Torque Converter transmission is used, another is engine variant (B46 vs B48), a third is final assembly location. It can be two of those or even all of them combined.

The Toyota models are a a different story and im somewhat stuck for words on how to approach it at the moment beyond retracting the Transaxle Statement for "The Supra".

Originally Posted by supra93

Thanks for posting that. I shared it on a few other forums and Toyota fan boys don't seem to be to happy lol.

Actually I removed them following an ahah moment. Those are quite speculative until further scrutiny is taken.

[supra93]

^I see, I'm still hoping for a manual, if not a DCT will do.

[supra93]

Here are some really nice high resolution spy shots.

[jts1981]

The reveal is 2 weeks away. Lets all be patient and let the dice roll. The facts will be out soon enough.

[supra93]