[n5o5n]

Originally Posted by GoKart10

My dealer quoted me $180 and said the early oil change is not recommended at 1200 miles on non-m cars, and that I should wait at least until 5k

Did the dealer say why they didn’t recommend oil change after break in? I understand it’s not required like a M car, but to say it’s not recommended seems wrong.

The S58 is different than a B58 but they are both mass produced engines. Same with the diff. They are both LSD.

The M car requires the break in service due to the build fluids they use at the factory. The non M uses “regular” fluids that do not require a change but certainly can’t hurt.

FWIW, I will have the engine oil and diff fluid changed at 1200 and my dealer said they thought it was a good idea (of course because I’m paying out of pocket &#129315

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by n5o5n

FWIW, I will have the engine oil and diff fluid changed at 1200 and my dealer said they thought it was a good idea (of course because I’m paying out of pocket &#129315

The service part of any dealer is their most profitable department.

IMHO, there are very few SA's that will talk you out of spending money if you are so inclined.

[boss2k]

Had the oil change done at the dealership with 6.5 L of SAE 0W20 Longlife-17 FE+, is that full synthetic as its no where mentioned

The tech also sent me a video of the car inspection which was cool to see.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by boss2k

Had the oil change done at the dealership with 6.5 L of SAE 0W20 Longlife-17 FE+, is that full synthetic as its no where mentioned

The tech also sent me a video of the car inspection which was cool to see.

My service department also sends me a video whenever I have any work performed on my car.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by boss2k

SAE 0W20 Longlife-17 FE+, is that full synthetic as its no where mentioned

My bottle of 0W30 Longlife-17 FE+ in the garage says "fully synthetic" on it, so... probably same for 0W20 version.

[t0pless]

Originally Posted by n5o5n

Did the dealer say why they didn’t recommend oil change after break in? I understand it’s not required like a M car, but to say it’s not recommended seems wrong.

The S58 is different than a B58 but they are both mass produced engines. Same with the diff. They are both LSD.

The M car requires the break in service due to the build fluids they use at the factory. The non M uses “regular” fluids that do not require a change but certainly can’t hurt.

FWIW, I will have the engine oil and diff fluid changed at 1200 and my dealer said they thought it was a good idea (of course because I’m paying out of pocket &#129315

Where do people get these change intervals? I’m genuinely curious about the logic. Your b58 is not an s58. And neither are race engines. Your differential is sealed and not exposed to chemical contaminants. Modern oils and manufacturing techniques aren’t from your grandpas era.

99% of this group lollies these cars around as if modern engines are built like glass and the only reason why your radiator fan kicks on is because of your A/C.

Meanwhile, I’ve cooked the engine oil to nearly 315F for 20 minute sessions while running ethanol, and doesn’t skip a beat.


Your engines will be fine.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by t0pless

Where do people get these change intervals?

As for me, I've been around engine remanufacturing 12 or so years as an engineer in a plant covering everything from new machining equipment to dyno testing to warranty analysis) and know that even at the utmost cleanliness attempts there's still a lot of little stuff inside the block and on all of the parts going into it. And some initial wear as well. And filters have high micron ratings but don't capture all of it even on multiple passes.

I'm not advocating people should do it, I don't think I've advised it to anyone ever to do it. And can't totally disagree it doens't need to be done. But for myself it's an hour of DIY in my garage (including the beer drank) to get the break-in oil out of there and so I'm going to do it.

After that I'll go a long time. I've been going 5k miles on my X3 (about 1.5 years) and may extend it even further, the analysis shows it's doing fine. I'll probably do the same for the Z4 as well.

[t0pless]

I appreciate the insight. I don’t disagree with having wear material in the oil during the break in- but I disagree with the impact it has. One can argue that any containments in the oil is bad but part of the job of oil is to mitigate contaminants. Wear materials will ALWAYS be present throughout the life of the engine.

Damages you hear about manufacturing debris (like Toyota recently or Hyundai with their Theta 2 engines) it’s related to a machining issue that no amount of “break in” oil changes would have saved. Toyota’s case was machining clearances and Hyundai being machining debris causing blocked oil passages to the crank bearings- again nothing a break in oil change would have fixed.

Oil has two jobs- lubricate and transfer heat. There are several factors that work against its ability to do those jobs like

-mechanical interaction (shearing)
-ability to maintain viscosity in a temperature range
-high thermal stability
-high oxidation and aging stability
-ability to resist vaporizing
-ability to resist foaming
-corrosion protection
-ability to resist combustion risiduals
-ability to scavenge residue (cleaning and neutralizing capability)
-ability to mix with other oils (like assembly lube)

Unless if there’s something during the break in process to a b58 that I’m missing that affects the oil in any of those ways that the filter and oil can’t handle, it’s a waste of money.

But I get it- oil is cheap insurance. But that becomes a “more money than brains” issue.

[boss2k]

Originally Posted by t0pless

Where do people get these change intervals? I’m genuinely curious about the logic.

From the break in period published by BMW in owners manual which is 1200 miles

Regardless of your explanation its always a great idea to do a break in oil change , just cost 150 bucks and why not?

[t0pless]

Originally Posted by boss2k

From the break in period published by BMW in owners manual which is 1200 miles

Regardless of your explanation its always a great idea to do a break in oil change , just cost 150 bucks and why not?

Like the one where it doesn’t say anything about doing any type of oil changes?

I explained exactly why it’s irrelevant to do it, so I wouldn’t call unnecessary spending a great idea.

[boss2k]

Originally Posted by t0pless

Like the one where it doesn’t say anything about doing any type of oil changes?

I explained exactly why it’s irrelevant to do it, so I wouldn’t call unnecessary spending a great idea.

Yes its not documented to do a break in oil change but irrespective should be done to flush out any metal parts from a brand new engine , doesn't hurt and a great idea. If break in period is 1200 miles that is the indication of a break in service.

[tracer bullet]

So....

Would we agree the oil in our B58's isn't special, and doesn't need to be swapped because it's the M thin viscosity break-in oil, or for any other reason? So it's not because of the oil itself.

Would we agree that some amount of wear is taking place, that some particles are being generated, at all times of course but especially so at break-in (meaning, a little more than "normal", but to what degree we don't have to state)? We can define break-in however anyone would like, 5 miles, 50 miles, 500 or 1200.

So, then the question becomes one of how much is generated, and if it's harmful or not. If we might actually agree that break-in generates a little more of this, then it'd reason that wear is accelerated as well, right? But do we care?

Clearly BMW doesn't think it's harmful enough to tell us to come for a change. And we can kind of disregard conventional wisdom, what's always been done, and that as well. Then we decide on our own if we care enough to do a change or not. Do we do it to be sure, or let it ride? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, unless we have access to actual evidence. I do not.

I'll likely send my 1st change to Blackstone. Clearly the additives will be fine but it could be interesting to see what metals are found and in what quantity. I'll share if I do.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by boss2k

Yes its not documented to do a break in oil change but irrespective should be done to flush out any metal parts from a brand new engine , doesn't hurt and a great idea. If break in period is 1200 miles that is the indication of a break in service.

I'll play Devil's Advocate. Where is it documented for our cars to do a break-in oil change? Not M cars, our cars?

I'll agree it doesn't hurt, as long as no one cross threads a plug or puts in the wrong amount or type.

Not sure the break-in period suggests a service automatically. Especially when it's not called out. Not for us anyhow.

[t0pless]

Originally Posted by boss2k

Yes its not documented to do a break in oil change but irrespective should be done to flush out any metal parts from a brand new engine , doesn't hurt and a great idea. If break in period is 1200 miles that is the indication of a break in service.

Great, why stop there then? Why not spark plugs? Ignition coils? How about the transmission fluid? Should we start setting change intervals for the alternator?

I get it- it’s all well intentioned, but there’s no data for any of this… only people’s feelings and interpretations on “what feels right”.

Can you imagine what the warranty costs would be from damages due to a missing service interval vs bmw just covering the cost of the service in their maintenance package? Do you think a company is willling to walk over dollars to pick up pennys?

(That last set of questions is ironically an interpretation. I have no data on this.)

[BrianUNC]

All this debate is probably pointless unless we’re comparing quite a few Blackstone reports from 1.2k miles and whenever the first change from someone doing the computer-based intervals is.

[t0pless]

Originally Posted by BrianUNC

All this debate is probably pointless unless we’re comparing quite a few Blackstone reports from 1.2k miles and whenever the first change from someone doing the computer-based intervals is.

Perfect- here’s analysis of various b58s that had a “break in” oil change. Last one is of my x7 after its second oil change, 9k intervals.

Break in oil changes reveal exactly what I mentioned: wear materials present, then averages out to universal numbers. In mine, on its second oil change, it immediately dropped to universal averages. This indicates that everything was removed after its first oil change.

*note- frustratingly the MI indicated on my report said 40k miles, not 20k miles. It was a typo on their end. I didn’t even have 40k miles on the car when it was tested.

[BrianUNC]

Originally Posted by t0pless

Perfect- here’s analysis of various b58s that had a “break in” oil change. Last one is of my x7 after its second oil change, 9k intervals.

Break in oil changes reveal exactly what I mentioned: wear materials present, then averages out to universal numbers. In mine, on its second oil change, it immediately dropped to universal averages. This indicates that everything was removed after its first oil change.

*note- frustratingly the MI indicated on my report said 40k miles, not 20k miles. It was a typo on their end. I didn’t even have 40k miles on the car when it was tested.

Dude’s bringing receipts. I love it 😆

For the record, I agree with you from 25+ years of doing this stuff and working at multiple OEMs as a supplier in the past.

[boss2k]

Originally Posted by t0pless

Perfect- here’s analysis of various b58s that had a “break in” oil change. Last one is of my x7 after its second oil change, 9k intervals.

Break in oil changes reveal exactly what I mentioned: wear materials present, then averages out to universal numbers. In mine, on its second oil change, it immediately dropped to universal averages. This indicates that everything was removed after its first oil change.

*note- frustratingly the MI indicated on my report said 40k miles, not 20k miles. It was a typo on their end. I didn’t even have 40k miles on the car when it was tested.

Thanks for sharing, what should i be looking for ? I dont know how to read this report

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by boss2k

what should i be looking for ?

A lot. There's probably oodles written about it or even videos to check out.

Basically metals, and how they compare to the norm. If high then look into where they may have come from like rings, bearings, etc. Also any fuel dilution, and so on. The nice thing with Blackstone is they do pretty good write-ups on each report for you to review. If they say all is good then it most likely is.

They saw my X3 Valvetronic issue coming, the wear metals jumped on one of the changes just before it failed. The eccentric was wearing rapidly and eventually froze up. I'm a believer.

[Emily172013]

I change oil every year myself with top quality oil usually with about 5k on the odometer. Our cars will die from electronic glitches or failures, or anything else, long before the engine wears out. I know a lot of people that have cars with around 200k, what change the oil every couple years if they think about it, with whatever the quick change shop puts in it, and they're all still running fine.

[Z4ME]

Originally Posted by Emily172013

I change oil every year myself with top quality oil usually with about 5k on the odometer. Our cars will die from electronic glitches or failures, or anything else, long before the engine wears out. I know a lot of people that have cars with around 200k, what change the oil every couple years if they think about it, with whatever the quick change shop puts in it, and they're all still running fine.

Even though I am pretty meticulous about changing my oil at the correct intervals, I believe you’re probably right about this. I had an ex girlfriend once that bought a Honda accord with something like 22k miles on it and it had never had an oil change done. The oil was as dark as I’ve ever seen. She changed it when she bought it and then about every 7500 miles thereafter. Never had a problem with the engine. lol.

[Thibs]

I received this email from BMW:


I asked my dealer what needed to be done for the 2000km drive in check up maintenance. They replied with:
The 2000km service is an oil change, differential fluid change and the restrictions that are on the vehicle with regards to power get unlocked – once this service is complete, you’ll get to experience what this vehicle is actually capable of. A point I need to stress on this one though – we can only do this service once it has hit the 2,000km mark (not even a kilometer less).

Best Regards,

Is anyone else getting this covered?