[M3Bahn]

I just read this and the comments to the article are great.

Why Science Majors Change Their Minds (It’s Just So Darn Hard)


Studies have found that roughly 40 percent of students planning engineering and science majors end up switching to other subjects or failing to get any degree. That increases to as much as 60 percent when pre-medical students, who typically have the strongest SAT scores and high school science preparation, are included, according to new data from the University of California at Los Angeles. That is twice the combined attrition rate of all other majors.

For educators, the big question is how to keep the momentum being built in the lower grades from dissipating once the students get to college.

“We’re losing an alarming proportion of our nation’s science talent once the students get to college,” says Mitchell J. Chang, an education professor at U.C.L.A. who has studied the matter. “It’s not just a K-12 preparation issue.”

Professor Chang says that rather than losing mainly students from disadvantaged backgrounds or with lackluster records, the attrition rate can be higher at the most selective schools, where he believes the competition overwhelms even well-qualified students.

“You’d like to think that since these institutions are getting the best students, the students who go there would have the best chances to succeed,” he says. “But if you take two students who have the same high school grade-point average and SAT scores, and you put one in a highly selective school like Berkeley and the other in a school with lower average scores like Cal State, that Berkeley student is at least 13 percent less likely than the one at Cal State to finish a STEM degree.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/ed...me&ref=general

[slo_guy]

The theme is basically the same here... stay in school and work hard. I'm with the majority. I think a lot of freshmen are like you. Most of it, I think, is because they are overwhelmed with everything that comes with it. There aren't too many high schools that can prepare you for the learning how to socialize in an adult world, learning how to balance your time, the coursework, AND being on your own and taking over your own life. I always tell my kids it's not about the actual grades and stuff. It's more about the experience. The school, major, and GPAs don't guarantee a great job and success. I was a double major and double minor at a decent school, UCSD (Biology, Psychology, Greek/Roman Lit, and Poli Sci). I worked at a pharmaceutical firm for a while (3M). I also worked with autistic/cp adults. I flirted with med school, and even with getting a doctorate in clinical pyschology. When I finally realized it wasn't for me, I found something else. I have no regrets, and, if I had to do it again, there would be little I would change. My motto is: It's never too late. I'm happy with what I do now, database administration, and love who I work with and where I work. Everything I did, I worked my ass off for.

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by schoy

Hold on ... your friend went from a top 5 EE program at U of I, to an economics program ranked #42?
No wonder your friend found UCSB easy.

Even if he stayed at U of I, he would have had a higher ranked graduate econ program (and a more pretigious university).

EE rankings: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...communications

Econ rankings: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...ankings/page+2

i think it was a combination of not being passionate about it (parents were both alum from UoI and E.E.) and feeling as if it was a huge change away from home.

Originally Posted by Desert_Fox

Yes that is correct, but transferring from CC on the other hand is much simpler. Like I said, if things do not work out at UCSB by end of this year, i'd just transfer to a Community college and then after a year there, transfer to another UC. The UC system gives first priority to CC students, and i've talked to more than enough people who have gone this route

you have friends that transferred out of a UC to a CC and then back to a UC? you need to submit your UC transcripts when you apply for the UC after CC, so they'll know you were accepted to a 4 year institution already. i mean its definitely possible... you just have to explain yourself really well in your personal statement or else they'll have no real reason to accept you except perhaps for your money lols

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by Desert_Fox

Through meeting his buddies, the general theme has been no college degree among any of them, and either they inherited their business or started it themselves. This uncle even once told me "A and B students always work for C students", along with "What do you say to the college graduate at your door? How much for the pizza?". It's shit like this that is so discouraging. If all these people are insanely well off and live like KINGS without much or any educational background, why do I need to waste 4 years doing something I dislike to barely make ends meat?

Shit like this is annoying. They're all morons who are lucky enough to have had hardworking parents to mooch off of, or get lucky enough with a stupid business idea that actually works. They sound like the rich kids that went to my private high school. Parents bought them their admissions (a test was required to enter); parents consistently bought them out of trouble with the school (grades, underage drinking etc), while I was there on scholarship. They feel entitled to everything in the world, though they did nothing to deserve it. This feeling of entitlement never leaves, even into adulthood. Most people like them don't get far in life. Look at all the trailer-trash in America. That's the 99.9999% of college dropouts (like the uncle's friends) who weren't quite so lucky.

That's what you're dealing with, people who have things they don't deserve, are some of the luckiest people on the planet to have those things, but they feel that they really do deserve those things and laugh at everyone who tries for the same thing and puts in effort. Don't listen to them, it's just their way of feeling good about themselves, and stroking their own egos, knowing that they did nothing to work for the riches they possess. If you're in doubt, try pre-med, though that's a hard choice. That way what they say to the "A and B student" / "college graduate" isn't about pizza, it's "please doctor, save my life".

Times have changed. In the past, no you did not need a college degree. Today, you will not be taken seriously without one. I'm assuming UC:SB is one of those "rich kid" schools, like Boston College is here on the east coast. Not everyone that goes to these schools is rich/spoiled, but a good deal of their admissions are in exchange for money from the pockets of rich parents, despite the school itself being ranked as a good school. That's probably why you see the clique-ness. Just find some cool kids to hang around with, it hasn't even been a full semester yet, and I can almost guarantee that most of the "friends" you make during your first semester will be forgotten by next year as you find people that mesh more with your personality. I made so many "dorm friends" first semester, and ended up keeping absolutely none of them. Found some kids that were like-minded and great to hang out with, and ended up living with them off campus for most of my time in college in a house. Those were the best times.

Don't give up. College isn't really that hard. I wish I was back, despite all the negatives.

[BayMoWe335]

Chances aren't, you won't be smart enough or lucky enough to do much if you don't get a college degree.

Lazy people love to find successful people without college degrees and conclude that's the ticket. In reality, you're just looking for them. A much greater number of success stories come out of people who at least earn their degree and apply it in business.

"A" students working for "C" students is just a catch phrase some "C" students came up with to make themselves feel better. Cream rises to the top in not all, but most cases...

[just4kickz]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Times have changed. In the past, no you did not need a college degree. Today, you will not be taken seriously without one. I'm assuming UC:SB is one of those "rich kid" schools, like Boston College is here on the east coast.

UCSB is a public school. i wouldn't consider it a rich kid school.

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by just4kickz

UCSB is a public school. i wouldn't consider it a rich kid school.

True, but there are public schools where rich kids tend to go. I was just considering the area it's in, not directly comparing it to BC where kids can get in through a variety of ways.

My high school college counselors almost ALL personally knew the admissions people at certain schools. BC was one of them. One phone call and a "Hey Bill I need you to let this kid in! Lunch saturday? Sure!" and undeserving rich kids easily got in. It starts in the rich kid high school, and continues into rich kid college. UCSB is ranked the #41 university in the nation (according to US news), so it's still a top-tier school, despite being a "lowly" public school. UCLA is ranked even higher and it's public as well. As long as it's a good school, it's a viable place for rich parents to send their spoiled kids, either through direct means, or indirect means with high school college counselors.

Though I'm just speculating. I don't personally know if it's a "rich kid" school, but those tend to be the ones where people haven't outgrown the high school clique phase.

[Brey335i]

A and B students working for C students? At most major companies in my field, you are actually unable to be promoted past a certain point without a Master or Ph. D. There are exceptions of course, but that's what they are. Exceptions to the rule.

[Desert_Fox]

Originally Posted by 1speedbike

Shit like this is annoying. They're all morons who are lucky enough to have had hardworking parents to mooch off of, or get lucky enough with a stupid business idea that actually works. They sound like the rich kids that went to my private high school. Parents bought them their admissions (a test was required to enter); parents consistently bought them out of trouble with the school (grades, underage drinking etc), while I was there on scholarship. They feel entitled to everything in the world, though they did nothing to deserve it. This feeling of entitlement never leaves, even into adulthood. Most people like them don't get far in life. Look at all the trailer-trash in America. That's the 99.9999% of college dropouts (like the uncle's friends) who weren't quite so lucky.

That's what you're dealing with, people who have things they don't deserve, are some of the luckiest people on the planet to have those things, but they feel that they really do deserve those things and laugh at everyone who tries for the same thing and puts in effort. Don't listen to them, it's just their way of feeling good about themselves, and stroking their own egos, knowing that they did nothing to work for the riches they possess. If you're in doubt, try pre-med, though that's a hard choice. That way what they say to the "A and B student" / "college graduate" isn't about pizza, it's "please doctor, save my life".

Times have changed. In the past, no you did not need a college degree. Today, you will not be taken seriously without one. I'm assuming UC:SB is one of those "rich kid" schools, like Boston College is here on the east coast. Not everyone that goes to these schools is rich/spoiled, but a good deal of their admissions are in exchange for money from the pockets of rich parents, despite the school itself being ranked as a good school. That's probably why you see the clique-ness. Just find some cool kids to hang around with, it hasn't even been a full semester yet, and I can almost guarantee that most of the "friends" you make during your first semester will be forgotten by next year as you find people that mesh more with your personality. I made so many "dorm friends" first semester, and ended up keeping absolutely none of them. Found some kids that were like-minded and great to hang out with, and ended up living with them off campus for most of my time in college in a house. Those were the best times.

Don't give up. College isn't really that hard. I wish I was back, despite all the negatives.

This was probably the single best response i've had so far. Thank you for putting the time in and writing that, it basically sums up my feelings so far on that matter...

As for UCSB, you'd be surprised the wealth that is attending here. It is quite the popular destination for affluent white and somewhat clever kids, who didn't get good enough grades to go somewhere better, and also want to party hard. Im very lucky to drive the car I do, it is mostly because my dad is a huge car guy and drove the Bimmer when I wasn't because he wanted a convertible. However you'd be shocked to see the Cayenne Turbo's, 5 & 6ers, E class.... you name it and some student drives it here. Not to mention there is a small airport next to campus and you can always hear about some kid taking their family's jet home for the weekend.

[BMWinNorthdakota]

Is that enough fucking advice for you op, you lazy fuck?

quitcher bitchin' and study

[1speedbike]

Originally Posted by Desert_Fox

As for UCSB, you'd be surprised the wealth that is attending here. It is quite the popular destination for affluent white and somewhat clever kids, who didn't get good enough grades to go somewhere better, and also want to party hard. Im very lucky to drive the car I do, it is mostly because my dad is a huge car guy and drove the Bimmer when I wasn't because he wanted a convertible. However you'd be shocked to see the Cayenne Turbo's, 5 & 6ers, E class.... you name it and some student drives it here. Not to mention there is a small airport next to campus and you can always hear about some kid taking their family's jet home for the weekend.

This confirmed my thoughts. Sounds exactly like BC. My sister goes to MIT and has BC friends as well. When I drop by for a visit, tt's very clear who goes where, just based on their attitudes: the general humility of the students who feel lucky enough to go to MIT (a ridiculously tough school that doesn't take shit) and the BC students who feel like they deserve to go to BC, despite not doing jack shit to earn it.

You're in a school full of shitty people. It sounds just like my high school experience. I found a bunch of artsy kids and we all had a good time, worked hard at school, started a band, played shows at local venues and gained a local following, and I generally had a great high school experience, only marred by the fact that I shared the halls with egotistical morons. I ended up at a top university, found more people I meshed with, and had a good time.

Seriously, don't give up. Does your school have covered grades first semester? On my transcript, it would just show up whether we passed or not for all first semester classes to help ease us in and not let us worry too much about grades.

EDIT: extra advice: befriend some stoners. even if you don't smoke yourself, and even though stoners can sometimes be lazy fucks with no aspirations, they are generally friendly and love everyone. Most won't pressure you to smoke at all, and are generally relaxed people who will always be friendly and genuinely nice, and will be much better than the typical crowd at your school. Only problem I ever had with a stoner was one roommate who was so out in space he decided to start dealing out of our apartment without telling anyone.

[brocken]

Has anybody suggested the really obvious...? Taking classes you actually LIKE?
Fun classes made it easy to get a 4.0.
And the boring/work type classes I struggled to keep above 2.7.
Why get a degree in something you don't enjoy? So you can try finding a job in a career you won't enjoy?

[CPWINCH]

just stay in school, smoke weed, go to parties and do your work