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      07-05-2018, 11:06 AM   #23
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I'm not a fan of the current president by any means, but if there's one area where I'm willing to give him a wide latitude and see how things play out over time, it's with business and, specifically, dealing with other business people. When it comes to social justice issues, that's another story. But I sure as hell wouldn't want to be on the other end of his business dealings.
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      07-05-2018, 11:07 AM   #24
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Of course it will be. This organization just needs to run the country without all of these games.
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      07-05-2018, 11:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
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Originally Posted by BD SM3RF View Post
It's a simple concept. We don't have free and fair trade now. High tariffs on US exports will lead to reciprocally high tariffs on like imports until such time as they reduce or remove those tariffs and the US then reciprocates. Then we have free trade. It's about time!
It's true that there is an imbalance here, the US imposes a 2.5% tariff on cars coming from the EU while there is a 10% tariff the other way. The question should be whether getting the EU to lower this rate would make a difference in sales of American cars in Europe.

This is highly doubtful that it would make much of an impact. With fuel prices much higher in the EU, smaller cars / engines are what sell. American car makers are moving to all but abandon selling cars at all, moving towards SUVs and trucks with larger engines and lower fuel economy. There is a niche market for things like the Mustang, but for folks that really want one and can afford a gas guzzling V8 muscle car, the extra 7.5% doesn't really matter one way or another to them.

So while technically yes there is a tariff imbalance here, and it FEELS like hey we should do something about it, the reality of it is that even if expending all this political capital and good will with our closest allies gets the concessions asked for, it won't really do much or anything to help American car manufacturers. The real proof here is that THEY aren't asking for it, in fact they are asking for them to STOP trying. If there was any way that this approach was likely to benefit US automobile manufacturers, don't you think they would be lobbying FOR it rather than against? They have done the analysis and believe it will be ultimately harmful to them, which begs the question - why are we taking this approach?
It's not a straight 2.5% from EU -> US nor is it a straight 10% US -> EU. The rate varies from 0% to 25% in BOTH directions depending on the type of vehicle, content deductions, and bonus preferential rate reductions. For the previous 12 mos, 15.4% of US Assembled Vehicles exported to the EU had import duties of various rates applied. The remainder entered at 0%.
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      07-05-2018, 11:11 AM   #26
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I know there are a lot of trump followers here
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      07-05-2018, 11:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemetier View Post

No. Your customers paid 4% Import Duty. The remaining 19% would be VAT (Sales Tax).
You may be right, in that the import tax portion was only 4%, but that is still 4% of neither fair or free trade.
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      07-05-2018, 11:33 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post

No. Your customers paid 4% Import Duty. The remaining 19% would be VAT (Sales Tax).
You may be right, in that the import tax portion was only 4%, but that is still 4% of neither fair or free trade.
What were these parts and what were they made of?
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      07-05-2018, 11:56 AM   #29
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Aaaaand the Supreme leader just changed his mind, and again...
No, that's incorrect thinking. This tariff war" is another example of the "Art of The Deal".

Politics is a like a game of poker & a game of chess played on a massive scale.

In that regard, he is no different than any other politician.

Despite the constant banter of "he's an idiot", he sure does seem to be effective.

But that's just my opinion.
Ok. It is his way or the highway. Is that real democracy? It was a simple statement of his continual flip flopping. Say one thing, do another. But I understand what you are saying.
Tell me of a country that has real democracy? There isn't one
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      07-05-2018, 12:12 PM   #30
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What were these parts and what were they made of?
5 lug conversion kit for e30. Aluminum and Steel
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      07-05-2018, 12:22 PM   #31
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Holy fucking shit the cognitive dissonance amongst some of you is appalling. Godspeed to your country, and more importantly: yourselves. You need it.
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      07-05-2018, 12:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
It's true that there is an imbalance here, the US imposes a 2.5% tariff on cars coming from the EU while there is a 10% tariff the other way. The question should be whether getting the EU to lower this rate would make a difference in sales of American cars in Europe.

This is highly doubtful that it would make much of an impact. With fuel prices much higher in the EU, smaller cars / engines are what sell. American car makers are moving to all but abandon selling cars at all, moving towards SUVs and trucks with larger engines and lower fuel economy. There is a niche market for things like the Mustang, but for folks that really want one and can afford a gas guzzling V8 muscle car, the extra 7.5% doesn't really matter one way or another to them.

So while technically yes there is a tariff imbalance here, and it FEELS like hey we should do something about it, the reality of it is that even if expending all this political capital and good will with our closest allies gets the concessions asked for, it won't really do much or anything to help American car manufacturers. The real proof here is that THEY aren't asking for it, in fact they are asking for them to STOP trying. If there was any way that this approach was likely to benefit US automobile manufacturers, don't you think they would be lobbying FOR it rather than against? They have done the analysis and believe it will be ultimately harmful to them, which begs the question - why are we taking this approach?
Exactly. Most of my German friends would never consider buying a car made in the US. A Ford F 150 or a Dummer is simply not a useful car in most of Europe, no matter how you change the tariffs. Build a great product and people will buy it (as an example, see German cars in the USA).
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      07-05-2018, 12:48 PM   #33
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Holy fucking shit the cognitive dissonance amongst some of you is appalling. Godspeed to your country, and more importantly: yourselves. You need it.
Would you like to go Curling? Eh
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      07-05-2018, 12:49 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by hellas203 View Post
Tell me of a country that has real democracy? There isn't one
Switzerland is an example maybe.

Democracy is people voting for someone and then that person can do (almost) whatever they want until the next election......
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      07-05-2018, 12:52 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
That is exactly right.

I happen to had first hand experience with this. I made some aftermarket parts that I ended up selling (via German BMW forum) in Europe, when I found out I had to lower my prices (to stay competitive), because German customers had to pay ~23% EU import tax. And let me tell you all, customs are real Nazis about it. You can't just send as gift or put a lower value on it to avoid those taxes, they open the packages up, inspect, and in some cases even confiscated them. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE FREE TRADE? Who the hell negotiated these deals? This is just one example of how the US is getting shafted and it is about time someone does something about it.

Of course the media, and all the sheeple, will make Trump the bad guy, when in fact he is trying to fix previous administrations foul ups and sell outs.

Rant over.
Before referring to a very dark part of the world history and insulting ppl, you should think twice before typing. I Wonder what the modo are doing!!!
VAT is a tax system commonly used in European countries and that's it. It has nothing to do with protectionism against USA. Your tax system in Your country is different.
Import duties, which are a smaller part of the 23% you mentioned, have nothing to do with protectionism too. Do a Google on how it works and learn, instead of writing that customs are Nazi. Customs makes the job for what they are paid for. If you export to Europe with all documents correctly fulfilled then you don't have to worry. If you start to cheat, don't come and cry because you were caught. And I m sure that if you have employees, you want them to work 100% if you pay them full time job, no?
So no need to insult ppl you don't even know as you did. Ignorance is an issue for Democracy Countries, and a dream for all politician with too much ego.

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      07-05-2018, 01:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norMcal View Post
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Originally Posted by lemetier View Post
What were these parts and what were they made of?
5 lug conversion kit for e30. Aluminum and Steel
So prior to last month, depending on when this was, it would have been a +1.5% or -1.5% difference in the opposite direction. Today it would be if all the documentation isn't in order and filed with USITC prior to importation.

As to who made the US - EU trade deal? No one since a comprehensive trade agreement doesn't exist.
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      07-05-2018, 01:07 PM   #37
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Yeah.... These tariffs were never going to make it in the real world. The modern global world. Concessions are good though & the threat of tariffs are sufficiently enough to figure out how to make trade somewhat better (for both sides?).
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      07-05-2018, 01:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
It's true that there is an imbalance here, the US imposes a 2.5% tariff on cars coming from the EU while there is a 10% tariff the other way. The question should be whether getting the EU to lower this rate would make a difference in sales of American cars in Europe.

This is highly doubtful that it would make much of an impact. With fuel prices much higher in the EU, smaller cars / engines are what sell. American car makers are moving to all but abandon selling cars at all, moving towards SUVs and trucks with larger engines and lower fuel economy. There is a niche market for things like the Mustang, but for folks that really want one and can afford a gas guzzling V8 muscle car, the extra 7.5% doesn't really matter one way or another to them.

So while technically yes there is a tariff imbalance here, and it FEELS like hey we should do something about it, the reality of it is that even if expending all this political capital and good will with our closest allies gets the concessions asked for, it won't really do much or anything to help American car manufacturers. The real proof here is that THEY aren't asking for it, in fact they are asking for them to STOP trying. If there was any way that this approach was likely to benefit US automobile manufacturers, don't you think they would be lobbying FOR it rather than against? They have done the analysis and believe it will be ultimately harmful to them, which begs the question - why are we taking this approach?
If the EU tariffs on American imports are so ineffective, then the EU shouldn't have any problem repealing them.

Problem solved.
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      07-05-2018, 01:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by drjoe66 View Post
Exactly. Most of my German friends would never consider buying a car made in the US. A Ford F 150 or a Dummer is simply not a useful car in most of Europe, no matter how you change the tariffs. Build a great product and people will buy it (as an example, see German cars in the USA).
So why do they need the tariff in the first place?
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      07-05-2018, 01:12 PM   #40
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Yup it's all calculated. I've read that book and there's no denying that's his strategy. He's also a big believer in taking risks and "thinking big." You win some and you lose some with this approach, but you never stay in the shadows.
You know he didnít write that book right?
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      07-05-2018, 01:12 PM   #41
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Negotiating 101: Anchoring.

If the outcome of this negotiation is that EU members reduce tariffs on US automotive imports, it will be a win for the US. Granted, there's still plenty of opportunity for this to go sideways.

Sometimes you have to look past your own politics to see what's going on. I can't stand Donald Trump, but if this works, it's still a win.
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      07-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #42
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Yup it's all calculated. I've read that book and there's no denying that's his strategy. He's also a big believer in taking risks and "thinking big." You win some and you lose some with this approach, but you never stay in the shadows.
You know he didn’t write that book right?
Yes, he is Liar, that's why he called everyone else liar when he campaigned.
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      07-05-2018, 01:20 PM   #43
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So why do they need the tariff in the first place?
You know we have tariffs in place too right BEFORE all this started right?

I am enjoying this little trade war we are having. I use to travel a lot for work and see how much cheaper we have it here.

High time we start paying what everyone else’s pays. People are spoiled here.
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      07-05-2018, 01:22 PM   #44
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I think it's rich that he's threatening higher tariffs that would affect BMW when BMW is (or used to be--hard to find solid stats on this) one of the largest exporter s of vehicles from the United States. This may have changed in recent years, but I'm fairly certain it still holds true. Obviously, this is all happening at a higher level, but the conflict is ridiculous.
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