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      07-09-2019, 11:30 PM   #45
NickyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
that is a very simplistic way of looking at it
It's a very simple scenario. It's fucking stupid.
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      07-10-2019, 12:29 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
It's a very simple scenario. It's fucking stupid.
Its not, but based upon your response I can assume it isn't worth having a conversation with you on the subject.

thankfully not everyone things the way you do.....
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      07-10-2019, 01:52 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
Its not, but based upon your response I can assume it isn't worth having a conversation with you on the subject.

thankfully not everyone things the way you do.....
You've got that right, then I wouldn't have free shit army losers to laugh at.
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      07-10-2019, 02:55 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
You've got that right, then I wouldn't have free shit army losers to laugh at.
Poor you, I extend my pity.
there was no need to coward out an edit your insult.

have the balls to stick with your thoughts....
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      07-10-2019, 10:33 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
Poor you, I extend my pity.
there was no need to coward out an edit your insult.

have the balls to stick with your thoughts...……….
Oh gfy. I changed my original post within seconds, because I realized you hadn't really shown your position so it wasn't fair to call you a shill. Instead, I let it be known that anybody who supports the idea of reparations in this country is a free shit army loser.
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      07-10-2019, 10:55 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Oh gfy. I changed my original post within seconds, because I realized you hadn't really shown your position so it wasn't fair to call you a shill. Instead, I let it be known that anybody who supports the idea of reparations in this country is a free shit army loser.
you changed it because keyboard cowboys like you talk shit behind the anonymity of the internet that you don't have the balls to say to people's face.
You don't think about a position before articulating one. Your statement here shows exactly the point. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT MY POSITION IS, and you being reckless never stopped to ask, you just projected and responded to your ignorant assumptions.


here is the sad thing, I checked a few of your posts, many of the positions you hold, at least in principle I do too, the fundamental difference between you and I is that I don't want the world to be made over in the image of it I have in my mind, that's a rather solipsistic and narcissistic thing to do.
I understand very well that there are thousands of people who never lived my experience, do not share my values and while I might disagree with many of them, I never try delegitimize their positions.

But windbags like you...……………….the world is changing. DEAL WITH IT.
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      07-10-2019, 11:07 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
you changed it because keyboard cowboys like you talk shit behind the anonymity of the internet that you don't have the balls to say to people's face.
You don't think about a position before articulating one. Your statement here shows exactly the point. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT MY POSITION IS, and you being reckless never stopped to ask, you just projected and responded to your ignorant assumptions.


here is the sad thing, I checked a few of your posts, many of the positions you hold, at least in principle I do too, the fundamental difference between you and I is that I don't want the world to be made over in the image of it I have in my mind, that's a rather solipsistic and narcissistic thing to do.
I understand very well that there are thousands of people who never lived my experience, do not share my values and while I might disagree with many of them, I never try delegitimize their positions.

But windbags like you...……………….the world is changing. DEAL WITH IT.
I've heard people screaming the world is changing for a long time, most of them are losers with their hands out. I don't owe you jackshit, and your opinion to me is even worth less than that. Go shill for free shit somewhere else asshole.
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      07-10-2019, 11:15 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
I've heard people screaming the world is changing for a long time, most of them are losers with their hands out. I don't owe you jackshit, and your opinion to me is even worth less than that. Go shill for free shit somewhere else asshole.
Dude, you got anger management issues to the point of cursing at people on the internet who owe you nothing and whose opinion is worth less than nothing to you?


if that's the case why you so mad and angry Bro??

I can send you a hot chick to give you a sensual massage, maybe that might relax you, or maybe you so angry you might strangle her?
you must have had a miserable childhood...……………...
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      07-10-2019, 11:16 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
you changed it because keyboard cowboys like you talk shit behind the anonymity of the internet that you don't have the balls to say to people's face.
You don't think about a position before articulating one. Your statement here shows exactly the point. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT MY POSITION IS, and you being reckless never stopped to ask, you just projected and responded to your ignorant assumptions.


here is the sad thing, I checked a few of your posts, many of the positions you hold, at least in principle I do too, the fundamental difference between you and I is that I don't want the world to be made over in the image of it I have in my mind, that's a rather solipsistic and narcissistic thing to do.
I understand very well that there are thousands of people who never lived my experience, do not share my values and while I might disagree with many of them, I never try delegitimize their positions.

But windbags like you....the world is changing. DEAL WITH IT.
Talks shit to a guy for being anonymous online, while maintaining his own anonimity.
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      07-10-2019, 11:54 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
that is a very simplistic way of looking at it
I couldn't locate it right away, but I think we have a reparations thread somewhere. Please join in and voice your opinion.

Found it: https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1627227
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      07-10-2019, 12:25 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta0311 View Post
Talks shit to a guy for being anonymous online, while maintaining his own anonymity.
I fixed ANONYMITY for you......

another one who seem to suck at reading comprehension.
It isn't anonymity that is the problem, but I guess I'd have to charge you for tutoring lessons if I have to point out to you what really is.
Good Lord, language isn't just about reading and writing, its about understanding, processing and communicating nuanced and (often) complex ideas.
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      07-10-2019, 12:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
I fixed ANONYMITY for you......

another one who seem to suck at reading comprehension.
It isn't anonymity that is the problem, but I guess I'd have to charge you for tutoring lessons if I have to point out to you what really is.
Good Lord, language isn't just about reading and writing, its about understanding, processing and communicating nuanced and (often) complex ideas.
"another one who seem to suck at reading comprehension."



Ok you got us troll, I fell for it. Well played.
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      07-10-2019, 02:39 PM   #57
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Here is the problem with reparations: Until the year 1800 about 90% of the entire world's population was under some form of slavery or indentured servitude with periods of servitude of more than 20 years not unusual.

So now it becomes a math problem. The population of the globe in 1800 was roughly 1 billion people. It is now approaching 9 billion people. I can say without question that those living today...NEARLY EVERYBODY alive is a descendant of someone who was in the global population of 900,000,000 that were victims of slavery or indentured servitude in 1800.

Where is the money coming from to pay reparations to almost 9,000,000,000 people? What countries are involved? Who get's what amount? Does one family get it collectively or do all members get their own amount?

The mind boggles at the implications.

Reparations is a silly non-starter. We are already receiving our reparations...it's called Society.

Cheers-mk
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Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

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      07-10-2019, 03:00 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Here is the problem with reparations: Until the year 1800 about 90% of the entire world's population was under some form of slavery or indentured servitude with periods of servitude of more than 20 years not unusual.

So now it becomes a math problem. The population of the globe in 1800 was roughly 1 billion people. It is now approaching 9 billion people. I can say without question that those living today...NEARLY EVERYBODY alive is a descendant of someone who was in the global population of 900,000,000 that were victims of slavery or indentured servitude in 1800.

Where is the money coming from to pay reparations to almost 9,000,000,000 people? What countries are involved? Who get's what amount? Does one family get it collectively or do all members get their own amount?



The mind boggles at the implications.

Reparations is a silly non-starter. We are already receiving our reparations...it's called Society.

Cheers-mk
Please define exactly what do you mean by slavery, because the word is used to refer to many different things

Indentured servitude is not slavery in the Trans Atlantic slave trade sense of the word, not is it the same as bond slavery in ancient times were people sold themselves into slavery (usually for a pre agreed period of time for the sake of their own survival)

In a discussion such as this a clear definition of the word (for the sake if discussion) matters greatly.

I am using it where people were stolen from their homelands, in chains, brought to the west and treated as investment property for the sake of creating wealth of the slave masters / "owners"
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      07-10-2019, 03:27 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
Please define exactly what do you mean by slavery, because the word is used to refer to many different things

Indentured servitude is not slavery in the Trans Atlantic slave trade sense of the word, not is it the same as bond slavery in ancient times were people sold themselves into slavery (usually for a pre agreed period of time for the sake of their own survival)

In a discussion such as this a clear definition of the word (for the sake if discussion) matters greatly.

I am using it where people were stolen from their homelands, in chains, brought to the west and treated as investment property for the sake of creating wealth of the slave masters / "owners"
Why does one have to be stolen from their homeland to be a slave? That is a rather limiting definition and seems to cherry pick a bit. Is the suffering of a person who is slave to someone in the land in which they were born any less than someone who was transported elsewhere? I assure you, sir, the whip does not care where it is applied or the land in which it resides.

Indentured servitude falls in this definition because any children born to those with whom the contract is held, typically fell under the rules of the contract and their labor was expected.

Lastly, the entire process whether through chattel slavery or indentured servitude held the same goal: Creating wealth for the master.

Under these definitions and objective realities, nearly everyone alive would be entitled to reparations.

Cheers-mk
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

Fair and objective hearings don't take place in secret.
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      07-10-2019, 04:36 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Why does one have to be stolen from their homeland to be a slave? That is a rather limiting definition and seems to cherry pick a bit. Is the suffering of a person who is slave to someone in the land in which they were born any less than someone who was transported elsewhere? I assure you, sir, the whip does not care where it is applied or the land in which it resides.

Indentured servitude falls in this definition because any children born to those with whom the contract is held, typically fell under the rules of the contract and their labor was expected.

Lastly, the entire process whether through chattel slavery or indentured servitude held the same goal: Creating wealth for the master.

Under these definitions and objective realities, nearly everyone alive would be entitled to reparations.

Cheers-mk


fair enough,
but remember this:


I am using it where people were stolen from their homelands, in chains, brought to the west and treated as investment property for the sake of creating wealth of the slave masters / "owners"

I never said the definition should be limited to my use of the word, I am simply saying we need to have a definition we can agree on that would make the discussion possible
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      07-10-2019, 04:49 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
that is a very simplistic way of looking at it
Sometimes simple is the superior way. I'm with Nicky, its a dumb idea. But there is a thread on that if you would like to take the conversation there.
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      07-10-2019, 04:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
On a personal Level I don't believe in reparations. I have my own personal reasons why I don't.
time will not allow me to articulate them in detail here,

I might come back to this later, but let me say a few things


1. reparations is not a US problem, it is a GLOBAL one, because slavery was not limited to the united states

2. there are countries across the world, who only "gained" their independence from Colonizers in very recent times, like say 30/40 years ago...

3. there are countries Like Haiti, who had to PAY REPARATIONS TO FRANCE, for its independence, and France was collecting that money until very recent times, a significant portion of Haitan poverty can be traced to this debt burden. Many of the people who worked to pay this debt to France were not alive when this agreement was made, and they were OBLIGATED to pay it and suffer its effects anyways.
this blows your ridiculous defense out of the water....

here is a little reading for you:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/h...onialism-debt/


I suggest you both read more and consider the positions of others before you ignorantly rail on like fools who lack wisdom.
I am not saying you should agree, I am saying you should at least seek to understand the plight and positions of others.
Lest when you are at a disadvantage, no one will give a shot about your concern.....

America is not the world, America is not the only country that participated in the slave trade.

There are other wrongs that have been made right through reparations, but somehow some of you think because people are black then they are not entitled to anything. Slavery has been abolished since 1865 but many of you still have the slave master mentality...


Maybe if it were still possible a lot of you might have owned slaves if you could

EDIT: a part of my response is to @NickyC

They also buy into emotional investment. I'll bet AOC reads this.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/jacobin/
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy

Overall, we rate Jacobin Magazine, Left Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that always favor the Democratic Socialist Left.
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      07-10-2019, 05:10 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantegardestyle View Post
fair enough,
but remember this:


I am using it where people were stolen from their homelands, in chains, brought to the west and treated as investment property for the sake of creating wealth of the slave masters / "owners"

I never said the definition should be limited to my use of the word, I am simply saying we need to have a definition we can agree on that would make the discussion possible
Here's the thing. Good for one and all or good for none. Deliberately limiting the pool to a preferred group is politics. And while that may be appropriate in this thread, it is not for the case of seriously discussing a fair way to do this which I believe is impossible.
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Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

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      07-10-2019, 05:31 PM   #64
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      07-10-2019, 09:29 PM   #65
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Your welcome vreihen16. If this stuff interests you then im super glad that at least one person (and likely many more) who are interested in space weather.

I fear people who live within the boundries of their circle of existence. Celebrate the free thinkers of sol planet three who know whats within their circle of awareness yet are open enough to expand their boarders, for its only there that the expansion of our species can truly be fruitful.

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      07-10-2019, 09:32 PM   #66
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Wettest period in recorded history (1850'ish) for certain large portions of the eastern United States.
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