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      10-21-2019, 02:29 PM   #23
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BMW ok these days if you want a Ford with a BMW badge and pay 20% more for the badge. Otherwise direction is front wheel drive bland styling that could be any EU/Korean/Japanese design. M badges on nearly everything so M means very little these days

New model pricing is a joke in EU

Amazing people still fall for it
Kinda like how people fell for the MB CLA, etc. BMW is joining a club that was already established by other European manufacturers.

In other news germane to the FWD topic....
https://carbuzz.com/news/mercedes-to...poor-customers
BMW better up their game.

Look what Mercedes Benz is doing to up theirs.

2020 Mercedes-AMG CLA45 has 382 hp and a rear-wheel-drive drift mode.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...g-cla45-debut/
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      10-21-2019, 02:29 PM   #24
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Bmw should be divided into 2 companies: BMW and M company, like Audi and Porsche.
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      10-21-2019, 02:38 PM   #25
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Does this mean I should trade in my Z4 and X5 for a plate of chicken McNuggets and a Coke?
No actually for a supra.
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      10-21-2019, 02:42 PM   #26
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No actually for a supra.
LOL!! Leave it to Toyota to build a Z4 coupe!
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      10-21-2019, 02:45 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast View Post
At the expense of what though? Completely giving up what BMW stood for, and producing mass appeal FWD econoboxes that sell well to people who care more about the badge than anything?
I don't know. Producing mass appeal FWD econoboxes seems to be working out well for the #8 brand.

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Mercedes still has the edge.
I guess that's the perk of getting a head start on BMW in regards to building mass appeal FWD econoboxes.
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      10-21-2019, 04:47 PM   #28
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See Cadillac if you want a preview of BMW in 29 years
I'll be the first to complain about how much BMW has sold out over this decade.

But unlike Cadillac during its downfall, BMW still has a very strong brand perception especially with the younger generations. Cadillac was hitting its sales targets but it was universally viewed as a geezer's car.
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      10-21-2019, 05:05 PM   #29
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They're up 1% compared to last year. Full document attached.


https://www.interbrand.com/best-bran.../2019/ranking/
Mercedes still has the edge.
Toyota still leads with their Lean Six Sigma strategies. last time I checked Toyota has the least defects in per 1000 cars produced. surprisingly, the Germans are quite behind on this measure.
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      10-21-2019, 05:08 PM   #30
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Yeah Mercs might have the edge but Toyota is whopping both BMW's as and Mercs so that says a lot.

But this ain't a surprise consider how much wider market BMW has gotten with all the new models they have been pouring out like the Minivan and such so i guess their strategy a Car for every customer is working.

Maybe BMW M-Brand should become more standalone and only produce car's in its own factory possibly for the enthusiastic market and a good corporation with BMW i-team then we might actually see them appealing to the traditional BMW fans while the regular BMW at the same time getting new customers who likes driving a BMW but knows nothing about cars to the rest of the market.

I could actually see a bright future if BMW M and BMW i became one and pushed out lightweight cars with all the technology that went in to the i3, you don't have to like the i3 but the car is quite good in terms of technology and also weight.

Let BMW M & BMW I-team do all the BMW m235,m240i,m330i,m340i and also if BMW I-team would do models like BMW i3 M and such with the electric drive train but tuned by BMW M.

And let the regular BMW have the M-Sport packages and such without all the m235,m240 etc... cars.
you should do a business case with this go to market strategy and present it to BMW. you might land a job!
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      10-21-2019, 08:22 PM   #31
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They're up 1% compared to last year. Full document attached.


https://www.interbrand.com/best-bran.../2019/ranking/
Mercedes still has the edge.
We are crushing Audi though! They are 42nd lol
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      10-21-2019, 08:42 PM   #32
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[IMG]https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019...2828b-full.png[/IMG]

They're up 1% compared to last year. Full document attached.


https://www.interbrand.com/best-bran.../2019/ranking/
Mercedes still has the edge.
We are crushing Audi though! They are 42nd lol
#facts ....lol!


The white S5 4-door that I saw on the freeway this morning looked great though. I did a double take.
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      10-21-2019, 10:12 PM   #33
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Lower than Toyota Mercedes and MCDONALDS! Lol
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      10-22-2019, 10:52 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I don't know. Producing mass appeal FWD econoboxes seems to be working out well for the #8 brand.



I guess that's the perk of getting a head start on BMW in regards to building mass appeal FWD econoboxes.
My thoughts exactly, thank you.

It's ridiculous...BMW improved over the last two years and reached its highest ranking ever in Interbrand but what we read most on this thread are negative comments by a fair number of its "fans" who are whining about the company's direction such as entering the FWD market which is a segment that doesn't even concern them.

Merc's introduction of its FWD CLA sedan in 2013 was a massive success. The company stated that it was their best launch in 20 years. Audi was smart enough not to miss out on this opportunity and launched their A3 sedan. Needless to say it was a hit. BMW is only 7 years late. It doesn't take a business degree to understand that pursue growth, a company needs to evolve, diversify its line of products to enter new markets (hybrid, EV, FWD, etc). Keep in mind that the electrification costs and the tariffs are hurting the company's bottom line. As long as BMW continues to make cars aimed for enthusiasts ie M2, M4 and others, it makes perfect business sense for BMW to move forward and expand. 11th place is worth applauding.
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      10-22-2019, 12:52 PM   #35
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#facts ....lol!


The white S5 4-door that I saw on the freeway this morning looked great though. I did a double take.
I wanted an S5 Sportback. Ended up with a coupe because the Coupes had a significant discount on them. The Sportback is selling like hotcakes.
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      10-22-2019, 01:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khailuan View Post
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Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I don't know. Producing mass appeal FWD econoboxes seems to be working out well for the #8 brand.



I guess that's the perk of getting a head start on BMW in regards to building mass appeal FWD econoboxes.
My thoughts exactly, thank you.

It's ridiculous...BMW improved over the last two years and reached its highest ranking ever in Interbrand but what we read most on this thread are negative comments by a fair number of its "fans" who are whining about the company's direction such as entering the FWD market which is a segment that doesn't even concern them.

Merc's introduction of its FWD CLA sedan in 2013 was a massive success. The company stated that it was their best launch in 20 years. Audi was smart enough not to miss out on this opportunity and launched their A3 sedan. Needless to say it was a hit. BMW is only 7 years late. It doesn't take a business degree to understand that pursue growth, a company needs to evolve, diversify its line of products to enter new markets (hybrid, EV, FWD, etc). Keep in mind that the electrification costs and the tariffs are hurting the company's bottom line. As long as BMW continues to make cars aimed for enthusiasts ie M2, M4 and others, it makes perfect business sense for BMW to move forward and expand. 11th place is worth applauding.
The issue arises because BMW variants that are aimed at enthusiasts are just that - variants. If they standardize the 2 series to have a FWD platform, guess what underpinnings the next M2 will have? It may be AWD but akin to the Focus RS etc. it would have a mostly front biased torque distribution that varies on throttle and steering input. Shifting the core ethos of a performance based brand to one of a mass-market consumer brand will have a deep and underlying impact on even the performance sub-brands that operate under said company.
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      10-22-2019, 01:23 PM   #37
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well, BMW already said the 2 series coupe will be RWD based platform, also BMW sells 2.5mm vehicle a year, it's mass market by most measure to start with
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      10-22-2019, 02:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast View Post
The issue arises because BMW variants that are aimed at enthusiasts are just that - variants. If they standardize the 2 series to have a FWD platform, guess what underpinnings the next M2 will have? It may be AWD but akin to the Focus RS etc. it would have a mostly front biased torque distribution that varies on throttle and steering input. Shifting the core ethos of a performance based brand to one of a mass-market consumer brand will have a deep and underlying impact on even the performance sub-brands that operate under said company.
I hear you and I can understand how it seems frightening that it is even a possibility...but I doubt BMW will be that stupid to shift its business solely to the mass and go as far as having the next M2 that's anything but RWD. They wouldn't go down that road.
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      10-22-2019, 02:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast View Post
The issue arises because BMW variants that are aimed at enthusiasts are just that - variants. If they standardize the 2 series to have a FWD platform, guess what underpinnings the next M2 will have? It may be AWD but akin to the Focus RS etc. it would have a mostly front biased torque distribution that varies on throttle and steering input. Shifting the core ethos of a performance based brand to one of a mass-market consumer brand will have a deep and underlying impact on even the performance sub-brands that operate under said company.
I hear you and I can understand how it seems frightening that it is even a possibility...but I doubt BMW will be that stupid to shift its business solely to the mass and go as far as having the next M2 that's anything but RWD. They wouldn't go down that road.
At this point I would warn against saying what a car company will or will not do. Fifteen years ago BMW said that the company would never build performance/M SUV's (...despite the existence of the X5 4.8is, which was essentially an ///M SAV without the ///M badge) because it went against the ethos of BMW ///M. Look at where we are today; they are churned out like hot cakes, and understandably so.
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      10-22-2019, 04:52 PM   #40
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Based on sales volume, i'm surprised Ford is 35th and IBM remain in the top 10!
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      10-22-2019, 08:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
I am glad to see BMW in the top 20. Yet BMW senior management ought to be more aware that those who fail to reinvent themselves will become obsolete at some point.
Do you not see the irony in what you just said? Please go read the threads about the new 2GC and come back here. BMW management is keenly aware they need to adapt to stay relevant (carbon fiber, electric, crossovers, all wheel drive or wrong wheel drive, etc.). They ARE reinventing themselves, just so BMW customers can say "they need to reinvent themselves or risk obsolescence" and then spew 11 pages of hatred on a blog because "HOW DARE BMW COME OUT WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I GREW UP LIKING!!!"
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      10-23-2019, 11:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast View Post
The issue arises because BMW variants that are aimed at enthusiasts are just that - variants. If they standardize the 2 series to have a FWD platform, guess what underpinnings the next M2 will have? It may be AWD but akin to the Focus RS etc. it would have a mostly front biased torque distribution that varies on throttle and steering input. Shifting the core ethos of a performance based brand to one of a mass-market consumer brand will have a deep and underlying impact on even the performance sub-brands that operate under said company.
I hear you and I can understand how it seems frightening that it is even a possibility...but I doubt BMW will be that stupid to shift its business solely to the mass and go as far as having the next M2 that's anything but RWD. They wouldn't go down that road.
Are you sure? Maybe not this immediate refresh but ones later... don't be so sure.

If you want evidence, look no further than the G80 M3. AWD paired with a ZF automatic..
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      10-23-2019, 01:35 PM   #43
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What is this list even supposed to represent?
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      10-23-2019, 05:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mthusiast View Post
Are you sure? Maybe not this immediate refresh but ones later... don't be so sure.

If you want evidence, look no further than the G80 M3. AWD paired with a ZF automatic..
True, but correct me if I'm wrong but that's in addition to the RWD with
stickshift is it not? BMW is offering additional drivetrain and transmission options/choices for consumers and that's a good thing. My philosophy is simple, keep your loyal purists and enthusiasts happy but strategically and carefully grow the brand by entering new markets. I believe this is what BMW is doing. A company either evolves or follows the path of the dinosaurs.
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