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Nissan Z 110 57.29%
Toyota Supra 82 42.71%
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      09-16-2020, 10:34 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Fun fact: figure out your design, tooling, training, and R&D costs, pay for them over 5 years but continue production for 10 and the last 5 years the car is still profitable at a reduced price. This is a large part of why the 370z still has a base price of $30k but the new one will be priced significantly higher.

Same reason they continue to make the GTR at very low volumes and aren't in any rush to make a replacement. Original costs to make the existing one are paid for and they need another large money outlay to create a new one. Business case to do it is pretty poor when a new small SUV has many of the same costs but sells in massive volumes.
It is still more about the amount of the increase and just about an increase. We are talking about sheet metal, not a full redesign with an entirely new platform. Considering that everything for this cars already exists in the Kaminokawa plant and has paid for itself over the many years the FM platform has been used, I do not see where the additional $10k is coming from.
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      09-16-2020, 11:00 AM   #222
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I appreciate them putting this car out just for enthusiasts with a manual.

Styling wise i love the rear and side design. The front is a bit awkward with the squared grill. Execution is much better than Supra without any fake gills/vents etc.

This car is 5 inches longer than 370Z yet is lower and same width. It should have a really nice stance. I do hope they fit it with proper brakes, suspension and normal steering. I do wish it had inline 6 like the original.
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      09-16-2020, 11:07 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
It is still more about the amount of the increase and just about an increase. We are talking about sheet metal, not a full redesign with an entirely new platform. Considering that everything for this cars already exists in the Kaminokawa plant and has paid for itself over the many years the FM platform has been used, I do not see where the additional $10k is coming from.
It's not just sheet metal and bolting it all together.

From a quick search (article from 2010)- https://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/27/...201%20billion.

"The price tag to develop a new vehicle starts around $ 1 billion. According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Auto Analyst for North America at IHS Global, "It can be as much as $6 billion if it's an all-new car on all-new platform with an all-new engine and an all-new transmission and nothing carrying over from the old model."

Considering this was a decade ago price has gone up. You don't spend a billion hoping to just get paid back. They sold about 72k 370z's in the U.S. over the last 11 years, not sure about world wide numbers but each car is helping pay part of the billion (one thousand million).
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      09-16-2020, 11:38 AM   #224
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Confirming speculation about the 400Z underpinnings, project chief explains what’s underneath.

Quote:
Nissan has taken the covers off the Z Proto, a car that forecasts the successor to the 370Z. But as the covers were peeled back, there was no official reference to what underpins it.

In an interview with Australian media, Hiroshi Tamura, product specialist for the development of the Nissan GT-R and Nismo products, gave significant clues about the underpinnings.

Although stopping short of confirming full details of the next Z-car – expected to be called the 400Z – Tamura unveiled some key information.

While hesitant to talk about the eventual production version, Tamura focussed mainly on the Z Proto itself.

When quizzed about the platform that underpins the twin-turbo V6 prototype, Tamura suggested a “platform solution was still ongoing,” before elaborating further.



“We don’t have many platforms,” Tamura said, referring to Nissan’s global portfolio of products. “The Z platform is already existing, but we have to modify the existing platform.”

While Tamura didn’t expressly address which platform would underpin the next Z, given Nissan’s slim front engine, rear-wheel drive capable parts bin, there’s little chance of anything other than a version of the front-midship, or FM platform, being used.

That said, FM isn’t a static component set. As well as its use under the current 370Z, it also underpinned the 350Z which dates back to 2002.

Other Nissan and Infiniti vehicles with the same chassis hardware include the Infiniti Q50 sedan and Q60 coupe and their predecessors, the much larger Q70, the last Nissan Stagea wagon, and even the QX70 crossover.

Between them a variety of weights, powertrains, and ride heights go some to show what the chassis might be capable of.

Right now the naturally aspirated 245kW/363Nm 3.7-litre V6 engine in the 370Z is a long way off the most powerful application for the FM platform.

Nissan has confirmed the Z Proto is powered by a twin-turbo V6, but hasn’t released engine details. Given the Infiniti Q60 Red Sport (shown above) runs a 3.0-litre V6 rated to 298kW and 475Nm, it’s not hard to see how the current chassis might be adapted to cope.

“Power and torque is quite different, so the platform is modified,” Tamuara reassured. “It is not carry-over.”

As with the initial slow tease of Z Proto information, the 370Z’s replacement, whatever it might be called, is sure to receive a similarly long lead of product info.

Despite the production-ready looks of the Z Proto, some reports suggest a production version could arrive as late as 2023. With that long to wait you can be sure Nissan will have plenty of info to share between now and then to keep enthusiasts interested.
https://www.caradvice.com.au/883912/...fied-platform/
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      09-16-2020, 11:57 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
It's not just sheet metal and bolting it all together.

From a quick search (article from 2010)- https://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/27/...201%20billion.

"The price tag to develop a new vehicle starts around $ 1 billion. According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Auto Analyst for North America at IHS Global, "It can be as much as $6 billion if it's an all-new car on all-new platform with an all-new engine and an all-new transmission and nothing carrying over from the old model."

Considering this was a decade ago price has gone up. You don't spend a billion hoping to just get paid back. They sold about 72k 370z's in the U.S. over the last 11 years, not sure about world wide numbers but each car is helping pay part of the billion (one thousand million).
Saying it is just sheet metal was hyperbolic, there is no reason to be pedantic.

By this same accord, that would mean the upcoming 86 (which is another case of a low volume sports car rumored to ride on the same platform as the old model but with a different engine) will cost $10k more than it does now.

I am in no way complaining about a price increase since that should have been obvious to everyone, it is the amount with no promise of increased refinement or platform improvements to justify the costs. The Q50 did not increase $10k over the G37 sedan and the Q60 did not increase $10k over the G37 coupe, and that is even with both cars paying for the R&D and retooling for the VR30 which the new Z will not have to account for.
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      09-16-2020, 12:13 PM   #226
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Nismo Z Rendered

https://www.400zclub.com/forum/threa...-rendered.108/

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      09-16-2020, 01:01 PM   #227
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We won't get i here in Europe 😕 due to emission regulations.
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      09-16-2020, 01:05 PM   #228
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Here is the article.

https://www.400zclub.com/forum/threa...to-europe.109/

Quote:
It’s Official: Nissan Won’t Bring The New Z Sports Car To Europe

Nissan has officially confirmed that the new Z sports car won’t come to Europe, putting a premature end to the hopes of prospective customers in the region.

When asked about whether they will offer the new Z in Europe, Nissan told CarScoops in a statement: “In terms of European sales, a shrinking European sports cars market and specific regulations on emissions mean that Nissan was unable to build a viable business case for the introduction of the production version of the next-generation Z-car in Europe.”

Earlier this year Nissan announced it would focus on U.S., China and Japan while scaling back on Europe and the rest of the world; the decision regarding the next-generation Z sports car comes as a sad reminder of that. “In Europe, Nissan’s priorities remain on its commitment to renew its crossover line-up and accelerate its range electrification strategy,” the carmaker added.

Nissan Europe also said that the U.S. and Japan will be the key markets for the new Z but was unable to confirm in detail which regions or countries are set to receive the upcoming sports car.

This confirms our earlier suspicions, first shared back in May, as Europe’s strict emission regulations basically force every carmaker into electrifying their lineup in order to meet the CO2 fleet average targets and avoid heavy fines.

The Nissan Z Proto looks basically 100 percent production-ready but the carmaker stopped short of discussing the technical details; the company confirmed that a twin-turbo 3.0-liter V6 engine sits under the bonnet paired to a standard six-speed manual transmission – with an automatic option currently under development.

Power is expected to be around the 400 HP-mark, which is what the engine currently makes in the Infiniti Red Sport models, while the platform is probably an updated version of the FM architecture that underpins the outgoing 370Z and the Infiniti Q50/Q60 models.

Most outlets believe that Nissan will go with the ‘400Z’ nameplate for the production version of its new sports car but given the displacement-based nomenclature of the Z family we shouldn’t rule out the ‘300Z’ name just yet.

Nissan is expected to launch the new Z sports car in the U.S. market sometime in the next 20 months. While we hope that they won’t wait that long, it certainly looks like the new Z will launch for the 2022 model year.
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      09-16-2020, 02:24 PM   #229
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Lol, and you guys thought the G22 front grill was bad....good God.
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      09-16-2020, 02:53 PM   #230
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      09-16-2020, 03:52 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Lol, and you guys thought the G22 front grill was bad....good God.
Well those people clamoring for JDM got their Domo-kun front end.
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      09-16-2020, 03:56 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet_F82 View Post
I'm WAY more excited about the new Nissan Z than the M3
You excited it's built on the antique q60 chassis? I like how it looks though and excited to see the new Z as well
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      09-16-2020, 04:20 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super51fan View Post
Saying it is just sheet metal was hyperbolic, there is no reason to be pedantic.

By this same accord, that would mean the upcoming 86 (which is another case of a low volume sports car rumored to ride on the same platform as the old model but with a different engine) will cost $10k more than it does now.

I am in no way complaining about a price increase since that should have been obvious to everyone, it is the amount with no promise of increased refinement or platform improvements to justify the costs. The Q50 did not increase $10k over the G37 sedan and the Q60 did not increase $10k over the G37 coupe, and that is even with both cars paying for the R&D and retooling for the VR30 which the new Z will not have to account for.
I wouldn't expect all the additional costs are development, has to be some amount a more expensive engine or other parts, and they will price it to maximize profits, not taking cost plus some percentage. Maybe they do far better at $40k with less volume over $35k with higher volume? Impossible to sayy.

With the 86 I think the worldwide sales numbers between Subaru and Toyota are far greater (part of the reason they did it). I have seen them in Thailand and other SE Asian countries, believe they are sold in Europe. Nissan announced the Z won't be sold in Europe, wouldn't expect SE Asian sales will be high as it is much more expensive and with lower sales numbers it requires the others to cover the costs.

How much this car improves on the previous, what the pricing actually turns out to be and if it is worth are impossible to say as we are only looking at a prototype.
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      09-16-2020, 04:56 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet_F82 View Post
I mean, the 370Z Nismo was truly ANCIENT, however I loved driving my friend's one.

Interior was way too cramped for me though. Hoping the new Z has more space!
***THIS***

"....This isn't just a regular Z—this is a Turbo Z. Power comes from Infiniti's now familiar 3.0-liter twin-turbo V-6, which makes 300 to 400 horsepower depending on its application. Nissan didn't say how much power the engine will make here, but did note in its press release that each Z was more powerful than the last. So figure more than the the 332 hp the 370Z makes from its naturally aspirated 3.7-liter V-6. More important than any power increase is a standard six-speed manual transmission. An automatic will be available, but a Z car deserves a manual. Praise Mr. K...."


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      09-16-2020, 05:09 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet_F82 View Post
I mean, the 370Z Nismo was truly ANCIENT, however I loved driving my friend's one.

Interior was way too cramped for me though. Hoping the new Z has more space!
...I cant tell if it has a +2... I think it's just hatch space behind

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      09-16-2020, 05:21 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
...I cant tell if it has a +2... I think it's just hatch space behind

Attachment 2415121
Geez... somebody got yellow overspray on the seats! Too bad because they look comfy.
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      09-16-2020, 08:30 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Keep in mind, that side profile picture is looking at a slammed new Z vs. what appears to be a lifted old Z, if anything, the old Z is some kid of low end base model suspension while the new one is the highest end (lowest) with the wheels filling the arches. That makes the picture kind of deceiving.
Good point... though I think the design of the current model is killed by the ridiculously high rear end that makes the entire back look super slab sided and thick. The much lower height of the rear on the 400Z helps alleviate that issue, regardless of the prototype being lower than what we would expect from an actual stock model. The 5 extra inches also makes the 400Z look less thick overall from the side.
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      09-16-2020, 08:33 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Lol, and you guys thought the G22 front grill was bad....good God.
Yeah. I personally thought the front grille on the 4 Concept looked stunningly good. However, this gigantic rectangular black hole on the 400Z is just completely lazy, WTF were they thinking styling. Who the fuck would just put a big black rectangle in the front to serve as the "face" of your most iconic car? I thought Japanese culture and companies were all about "face". It matches absolutely nothing else on the car.
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      09-16-2020, 08:49 PM   #239
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The latest cover of BestCar.

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      09-16-2020, 10:32 PM   #240
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Busted! The reality is that this new (old) Z is nothing more than a 370Z with a new sheet metal, interior design, and engine as Motor Trend points out in these photos proving it's a 370Z;

https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/

The 370Z was an ancient car already so this one will be quicker but there's only so much you can do with revalved shocks and springs on an ancient chassis as this car should drive basically the same as a tweaked 370Z. I don't know how they could justify charging $40k for a reskinned 370Z even with a new engine. It's the same damn car lol. How embarrassing for Nissan.

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      09-16-2020, 11:56 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Busted! The reality is that this new (old) Z is nothing more than a 370Z with a new sheet metal, interior design, and engine as Motor Trend points out in these photos proving it's a 370Z;

https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/

The 370Z was an ancient car already so this one will be quicker but there's only so much you can do with revalved shocks and springs on an ancient chassis as this car should drive basically the same as a tweaked 370Z. I don't know how they could justify charging $40k for a reskinned 370Z even with a new engine. It's the same damn car lol. How embarrassing for Nissan.
That's what I'm saying, with the same wheel size and wheel-gap, it looks like the same exact body shapes.
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      09-17-2020, 12:41 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
Busted! The reality is that this new (old) Z is nothing more than a 370Z with a new sheet metal, interior design, and engine as Motor Trend points out in these photos proving it's a 370Z;

https://www.motortrend.com/features-...arison-visual/

The 370Z was an ancient car already so this one will be quicker but there's only so much you can do with revalved shocks and springs on an ancient chassis as this car should drive basically the same as a tweaked 370Z. I don't know how they could justify charging $40k for a reskinned 370Z even with a new engine. It's the same damn car lol. How embarrassing for Nissan.
The underpinnings of the latest iteration of the FM platform is not bad TBH. It has a front double wishbone (or SLA) suspension and has higher potential grip limits (especially when you fit good rubber on the car) than the McPherson strut equipped 1/2/3/4 ers and the Supra.
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