08-28-2022, 09:47 PM | #67 | |
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But if your performance car will only need to navigate cold temperatures or a cold rain, I don't think it's an oxymoron at all, because I've been doing it for many years, on various RWD performance cars. Never had a problem. Hec, Doc doesn't even plan on driving his M2 in a cold rain much, merely navigating cold, dry pavement. Thus, my recommendation to Doc is to not switch out his summer tires initially, and let winter come and see if his summer tires feel "unsafe" in the colder temps. If they do, then he can always order A/S or winter performance tires later. For me, I'd always let my summer tires get warmed up a bit after a cold night or in really cold temperatures (below freezing), and then I'd drive my performance car quite normally. And the tires gripped almost like it was summer. My recent experience over the last 10 years or so has been with Michelins Pilot Super Sports (now the PS4S), and they've been great. Never take them off the car, in any weather. But of course, if there's snow or ice, my performance cars are never driven. Though, even if I had winter tires, I still wouldn't want to risk driving my fun, performance car in the snow or ice, not among the other drivers out there navigating those same slippery conditions. |
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08-28-2022, 10:27 PM | #68 | ||
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08-28-2022, 10:50 PM | #69 | |
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I'm simply offering my input after 10 winters of driving on summer Michelin Pilot Super Sports in the cold (even at 0 degrees F) that it never felt dangerous, and I never had excessive tire wear, and the tires always rebounded to perform well the following summer. And sometimes, the car wasn't even kept in the garage, it would get kicked out into the driveway under a cover because I was housing other cars. So unless your high-performance car is your only car, and you know you'll have it to drive in the snow or in icy conditions, I would try out your summer tires first on those cold, dry pavements. And if you have Michelin PS4s, I highly recommend trying them out in the winter first. Again, even if I only had one car which was a high-performance vehicle, and had the best winter tires, I still wouldn't be driving my beloved, prized possession in treacherous conditions like snow or on ice. I'd stay home, rent a car for a week, or use a ridesharing app. Why risk it? All it takes is one person around you who didn't buy snow tires to ruin your month (and could total your car). You could likely rent a Prius or Corolla for a week for $200 while the weather moderates and save yourself the headache. |
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08-28-2022, 11:25 PM | #70 |
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Seriously, just get the Conti DWS. An EXCELLENT tire with very little compromise. Great ride quality, quiet, good grip, doesn't flat spot, and looks nice. That is the tire you want.
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08-28-2022, 11:33 PM | #71 |
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There's also a big difference between air temp, pavement temp and tire temp. There's a significant amount of independence in each of these parameters.
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08-29-2022, 10:01 AM | #72 | |
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08-29-2022, 10:30 AM | #73 |
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Except it's not only that. There have been many examples of PSS and PS4S cracking on the shoulder in low temperatures and needing to be replaced. Particularly the more aggressive compound versions used on Corvettes. They cracked parked outside in the south on dealer lots...
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08-29-2022, 11:59 AM | #74 | |
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And if someone doesn't want to risk using summer tires in the winter because of these isolated cases, I understand...they can simply get all-season or snow tires for their performance vehicles in the winter. I'm just offering my 20+ years of experience of driving summer tires in the winter on dry or wet pavement, and not having any issues (with the last 10 years all being high-performance Michelin Pilot Sports), no issues with cracking, excessive tread wear, or sliding. Again, I have always driven my sports/sporty cars all through the winter, only pausing during snow and ice storms (and waiting for rain to clear the salt). Otherwise, I just get in and drive my cars, often on long trips. Never a problem with my tires...as long as you know to avoid snow and ice, and to be careful of any possible ice patches when the temperatures drop below freezing. Basically, drive with some sense. |
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08-29-2022, 12:01 PM | #75 | |
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08-29-2022, 12:09 PM | #76 |
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I have a bridge to sell anyone who says summer rubber is better than a dedicated all season in colder temps. I have Pirelli PZERO's on my 997 and if i go for a ride on a cloudy, late afternoon you can feel the fuckers are not happy. God help you if it rains and is "fall hoodie" cold.
Once warmed up they are fine but stone cold...... dreaming. |
08-29-2022, 12:11 PM | #77 | |
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08-30-2022, 12:47 AM | #79 | |
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08-30-2022, 10:07 AM | #80 |
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If you are going from a relatively warm garage, to a sunny road, even if the air temp is cooler, your tires may not cool to that air temp and friction may keep them a little higher. The problem with this is if it's colder, there's more shade, etc., your tires may cool and your traction may get less and less as you drive. This is a stupid thing to do in the cold.
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08-30-2022, 10:38 AM | #81 |
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Why are summer tires called 'summer tires' and why are winter tires called 'winter tires'?
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08-30-2022, 01:15 PM | #82 | |
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The area I live in is hilly and topography changes across the city range from 800' to 1,600' above sea level. My M235 6MT makes around 380whp/400wtq and it spend it's evening in a garage. My car came with PSS and I got Michelin Alpin PA4s for my first winter because people swore I needed winter tires. Those tires were quite amazing in the snow, BUT in all other circumstances, they pretty much were terrible and borderline dangerous. On cold wet pavement, the braking was terrible and would engage the ABS very quickly. On cold dry pavement, basically the same issue in panic stops. The tires were loud and handled like wet porkchop. When temps got into the upper 40s, the tires were total crap. Since rubber is so pliable, they wore quickly and were completely done in 14K miles and about 4 winter seasons. The only reason I'd ever have tires like that again is if I live somewhere with snow on the roads almost all winter. For where I live, the PA4s were pointless and I hated driving on them in the winter. I replaced the PA4s with Michelin PS All Season 4s. These tires are by far the best all season performance tires I've ever experienced in 33+ year of driving. The tires are magic, IMO. They are real grippy in 40-70 degree weather (~80% of the grip of my prior PSS and current PS4S) and do exceptionally good in 15-40 degree weather including the dry and wet handling and braking. They are quiet, wear really well, and look good too. They are miles ahead of the PA4s except in snowy driving, but even then they aren't bad. I've never been stuck and that includes hills. These tires are also a bit better than the Conti DWS06 I had on my prior 2012 WRX as a winter set. DWS06s weren't as good in the snow and didn't handle remotely as well in the dry or wet as the PS All Season 4s. I've had all sorts of performance all seasons throughout the years and the PS All Season 4s are by far the best I've ever had. They're also the most expensive I'll also add some fuel to the fire that I ran my PS4s in 20 degree temps, cold and wet road conditions, last year and didn't swap the PS All Season 4s on until the first of the year. Yeah, the PS4s become super stiff in the cold, but the braking and handling is still better than Alpin PA4. LOL .
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Last edited by XutvJet; 08-30-2022 at 01:20 PM.. |
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08-30-2022, 01:28 PM | #83 | |
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08-30-2022, 02:00 PM | #84 | |
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i've had MPSS in zero degree temps on my gtr and f80 and did fine as well. are people trying to performance drive in zero degree temps or something? take corners like they would in the summer ? or tailgate people at 70mph and slam the brakes ? i guess a dedicated winter tire would be better for those applications. but driving fast in cold temps is stupid regardless of tire. an mpss will still get you A to B if you drive like a normal person
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08-30-2022, 02:40 PM | #85 |
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Where is it 1600'?
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08-30-2022, 05:31 PM | #86 | |
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This exact comparison has been done: Last edited by chris719; 08-30-2022 at 05:45 PM.. |
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08-31-2022, 02:31 PM | #87 |
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Tire compound cracking is absolutely an issue on summer tires being stored and especially driven in cold temps. It's a bigger issue in 80 and 200tw tires, but some 240 and 300tw tires are still at risk in colder temps.
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09-03-2022, 07:21 AM | #88 |
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I have two sets of wheels, so I could do Pilot Sport AS4s and if I don't like them or don't find enough utility in them, sell the set.
I think I might have mentioned elsewhere, a good friend of mine runs the AS4s on his M8 (year round). Maybe do 255F/275R? |
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