[jdhiro]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I have had the Porsche PDK. My son has the Mustang GT500 DCT. One of the reasons I bought a Z4 is the ZF 8 speed auto. If you think a DCT will perform better, you will be disappointed.

As someone who currently owns both a DCT and ZF auto in question, the DCT is sportier hands down.

The ZF is a lot more comfortable and easier to live with around town.

I still feel like the DCT is the appropriate transmission for a sports car.

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

I prefer this ZF8 in the Z4 to my DCT in my e93. DCT’s can be rough at low speeds, and some of the allure was lost for me when I realized my VW alltrack had a DCT. The ZF8 is very, very good and imo not worth holding out for. A manual transmission is a different story.

I drove manual transmissions for 60 years. The thrill is gone for me. I prefer the versatility and multiple modes of modern automatics.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I drove manual transmissions for 60 years. The thrill is gone for me. I prefer the versatility and multiple modes of modern automatics.

Very nice, I respect your experience and opinion. I had a manual 7 speed corvette as my first car, then an automatic 3 series, then a manual 3 series, then a manual e46 M3, then automatics for several years, then a manual f80 M3. It’s been automatics for several cars and SUV’s for us. So I have that nostalgia to go back to mechanical engagement with the car. The DCT is basically an automated manual, best of both worlds in a sense with the 7 shift settings.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by jdhiro

As someone who currently owns both a DCT and ZF auto in question, the DCT is sportier hands down.

The ZF is a lot more comfortable and easier to live with around town.

I still feel like the DCT is the appropriate transmission for a sports car.

I agree that the ZF is more comfortable and easier to live with but I never found the DCT (PDK) to be much sportier myself... I've now had four ZF8's and love them.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

2 cents,
Dave

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

I agree that the ZF is more comfortable and easier to live with but I never found the DCT (PDK) to be much sportier myself... I've now had four ZF8's and love them.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...f-eight-speed/

2 cents,
Dave

Me too. Plus you don't have to worry about the distance limit switch failing and costing $20K to replace the PDK. In addition, the stall speed of the torque converter provides the ZF with torque multiplication you don't get with a DCT on launch, as well as less drive line snatch.

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Very nice, I respect your experience and opinion. I had a manual 7 speed corvette as my first car, then an automatic 3 series, then a manual 3 series, then a manual e46 M3, then automatics for several years, then a manual f80 M3. It’s been automatics for several cars and SUV’s for us. So I have that nostalgia to go back to mechanical engagement with the car. The DCT is basically an automated manual, best of both worlds in a sense with the 7 shift settings.

My last manuals were a 997.2 CS, 335ix and John Cooper Mini. Too many before that to count, starting with a 37 Chevy 2 door. I really liked them, but after trying the ZF 8 speed and GM 10 speed, I was sold. If I were ever to buy an old car or restomod, I'd probably like a manual. 3 and 4 speed automatics are no fun at all.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by Balr14

3 and 4 speed automatics are no fun at all.

3 and 4 speeds? Didn't you ever have a 2spd Powerglide?

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

3 and 4 speeds? Didn't you ever have a 2spd Powerglide?

I have a 2 speed automatic centuries ago on an Oldsmobile Cutlass, it was awful!

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

3 and 4 speeds? Didn't you ever have a 2spd Powerglide?

Thankfully, no. I have only ever owned 3 automatics until now, all in 70s luxury cars. Everything else was manual. We have used modified Powerglides and TH400 transmissions for drag racing, but that doesn't really count. But, you do learn a lot about transmissions that way.

[DM6]

I guess I don't understand why "range" is such an important figure here....
400 miles to a tank....is that not long enough?

I mean, I've got a bad back, and 4-5 hours straight in the seat is about all I can handle. Don't you folks with healthy backs still need to eat, drink, go potty, stretch, smoke, etc., etc.?????

Is making a pitstop to refuel that takes 10 minutes that big of a deal?

I guess I'm not understanding why this is a topic unless you are running competitive laps.

[StanDiego]

Originally Posted by DM6

I guess I don't understand why "range" is such an important figure here....
400 miles to a tank....is that not long enough?

I mean, I've got a bad back, and 4-5 hours straight in the seat is about all I can handle. Don't you folks with healthy backs still need to eat, drink, go potty, stretch, smoke, etc., etc.?????

Is making a pitstop to refuel that takes 10 minutes that big of a deal?

I guess I'm not understanding why this is a topic unless you are running competitive laps.

I suspect it's more of an issue for daily drivers who would have to make more frequent stops at the gas station on the way to or from work, and I doubt many potential M2 owners are taking long trips in them.

I'm retired and probably closer to your demographic so it wouldn't matter much to me because I wouldn't be daily commuting with it. However, before retirement, I appreciated having a vehicle that could go at least a week between fill-ups. YMMV

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by jdhiro

As someone who currently owns both a DCT and ZF auto in question, the DCT is sportier hands down.

The ZF is a lot more comfortable and easier to live with around town.

I still feel like the DCT is the appropriate transmission for a sports car.

I would agree with that with a few comments. Toss-up between pure fun (4-6MT) or maximum performance (7-8DCT). Am not saying there is not a lot of fun in a 7DCT car. Only had one, a sport coupe, but it was a winner & a close rival to my 5MT sport car.

Second part is the Z4 M40i a sport car or a GT car? Based on the sport cars I have owned IMHO the Z4 is a GT car & the 8ZF is the best match for it.

FWIW will throw in the M4C as a good match with the 8ZF as I don't think you could get much more performance out of it with a 7DCT. Also its size, weight, AWD & plushness push it into a GT category.

Wish I could have built the Cobra as a 7DCT sport car over the TKO-600 5MT I used.

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

I have a 2 speed automatic centuries ago on an Oldsmobile Cutlass, it was awful!

I was kidding but it did make me think of the cars I've had with 2 and 3 spd autos;

2spd powerglides: 1967 Impala SS 327 HT, 1967 Impala SS convertible, 1966 Chevelle Malibu, 1966 Cutlass 330, 1967 Cutlass 330

TH350 3spd; 1970 Chevelle Malibu

TH400 3spd; 1970 442 W30 455

727 TF 3spd; 1977 Dodge D200, 1970 Superbee 440-6 Pack.

Back then autos were two or three speeds and manuals were 3 or 4 speeds. Now autos are 8 and 9 speeds and manuals are 6 spds (what ones still exist)!

getting old...

Dave

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

I was kidding but it did make me think of the cars I've had with 2 and 3 spd autos;

2spd powerglides: 1967 Impala SS 327 HT, 1967 Impala SS convertible, 1966 Chevelle Malibu, 1966 Cutlass 330, 1967 Cutlass 330

TH350 3spd; 1970 Chevelle Malibu

TH400 3spd; 1970 442 W30 455

727 TF 3spd; 1977 Dodge D200, 1970 Superbee 440-6 Pack.

Back then autos were two or three speeds and manuals were 3 or 4 speeds. Now autos are 8 and 9 speeds and manuals are 6 spds (what ones still exist)!

getting old...

Dave

I was stuck with the 2 speed power glide in my Cutlass which was awful and remember when Oldsmobile released their 3 speed Turbo-Hydramatic transmissions. I was so jealous of the people that had them in their cars.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by DM6

I guess I don't understand why "range" is such an important figure here....
400 miles to a tank....is that not long enough?

I mean, I've got a bad back, and 4-5 hours straight in the seat is about all I can handle. Don't you folks with healthy backs still need to eat, drink, go potty, stretch, smoke, etc., etc.?????

Is making a pitstop to refuel that takes 10 minutes that big of a deal?

400 miles per tank is terrific, that's what I get in my Z on trips to the mountains even with mixed driving. Just went on a 6 hour drive today and for 320 miles got 29.5 mpg - used a little over 3/4 of a tank of gas.

But the M2 would get 260 on average - 274 at 20 mpg, for example - and 205 at 15 mpg. I don't mind stopping at the gas station a couple times for a road trip to the mountains, but let's take this scenario:

Fill up half way to the mountains, then drive 50 miles to some canyons (1/4 tank gone) and at 10-15 mpg running it hard for 90 miles, you now have 1/4 tank left to get back to the gas station.

And if you daily the car, which is what most people are doing with this I would imagine, you're filling up every few days if you drive 1200 miles/month assuming you don't run it down to empty.

[Pprior]

Yah that’s the thing for me - the hassle.

Number one reason I will buy electric - just plug it in at home. I rarely drive more than 200 miles round trip but day to day I hate stopping to fill up

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Pprior

Yah that’s the thing for me - the hassle.

Number one reason I will buy electric - just plug it in at home. I rarely drive more than 200 miles round trip but day to day I hate stopping to fill up

It’s awesome. Boring. But awesome!
I was stopping at a gas station every other day in my M3, and the M2 has a smaller tank.

[Balr14]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

I was stuck with the 2 speed power glide in my Cutlass which was awful and remember when Oldsmobile released their 3 speed Turbo-Hydramatic transmissions. I was so jealous of the people that had them in their cars.

I can remember drag racing in the early 60s when I had a Max wedge Dodge with a 4 speed. We were the hot ticket. Then Mopars started showing up with push button 3 speed automatics. We all figured "what the hell is this... there's no way they can beat our 4 speeds". Boy, were we wrong!

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by Balr14

I can remember drag racing in the early 60s when I had a Max wedge Dodge with a 4 speed. We were the hot ticket. Then Mopars started showing up with push button 3 speed automatics. We all figured "what the hell is this... there's no way they can beat our 4 speeds". Boy, were we wrong!

An acquaintance has a '62 413 Max Wedge with a T85 3spd manual, it is uber-rare and I've seen it a couple of times, including when he raced it when I was at the Mission dragstrip maybe 7 years ago...

Fun stuff.

Dave

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

I was stuck with the 2 speed power glide in my Cutlass which was awful and remember when Oldsmobile released their 3 speed Turbo-Hydramatic transmissions. I was so jealous of the people that had them in their cars.

Must have been pre-1967; what year?

Dave

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by DPelletier

Must have been pre-1967; what year?

Dave

I don't remember the exact year but was the early 60's.

[F87LUV]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

400 miles per tank is terrific, that's what I get in my Z on trips to the mountains even with mixed driving. Just went on a 6 hour drive today and for 320 miles got 29.5 mpg - used a little over 3/4 of a tank of gas.

But the M2 would get 260 on average - 274 at 20 mpg, for example - and 205 at 15 mpg. I don't mind stopping at the gas station a couple times for a road trip to the mountains, but let's take this scenario:

Fill up half way to the mountains, then drive 50 miles to some canyons (1/4 tank gone) and at 10-15 mpg running it hard for 90 miles, you now have 1/4 tank left to get back to the gas station.

And if you daily the car, which is what most people are doing with this I would imagine, you're filling up every few days if you drive 1200 miles/month assuming you don't run it down to empty.

The only place my M2 gets refueled frequently is at the track. Once you hit a 1/3 tank, limp mode goes into full effect.

The hybrid workplace scaled back my gas station trips to maybe once every two weeks. I’m still holding my last bated breath for a manual Z4 so I’ll have the best of both worlds as the M2 is DCT.