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      03-10-2015, 04:09 PM   #1
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No New Z4 for a while? "BMW hopes to replace Z4 before 2020"

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The Z4 is due for replacement real soon but this news may mean there won't be a new Z4 for a while.

Quote:
http://europe.autonews.com/article/2...z4-before-2020

March 9, 2015 06:01 CET

GENEVA -- BMW hopes to launch a successor to the Z4 roadster before the end of the decade, the automaker’s chief engineer told Automotive News Europe during the Geneva auto show last week.

Development costs could be shared with Toyota as part of the automakers’ cooperation, which includes a common sports car architecture, collaboration on powertrain electrification and pooling of r&d on lightweight technologies.

BMW is seeking a cost-effective way to update the car as global demand for two-seat roadsters and coupe drops because of dwindling customer demand.

“If you look at the volume … we have to realize that these segments are shrinking,” Froehlich said, adding that the body type is not popular in the world’s largest market.

“[Car buyers in China] are not interested in roadsters,” said Froehlich, who was named development chief at BMW last December after Herbert Diess left the company. Diess will take over as Volkswagen brand CEO in July.

In China, car buyers favor privacy, which would be compromised when driving with an open top. Also, poor air quality is a major problem in many of the country's cities.

In Europe, roadsters are typically a second or third car in a household, but since the region has suffered for year from a weak economy fewer people have had the means to invest in something that is non-essential.

Z4 sales declined by 11 percent to about 5,300 cars in Europe last year, according to data from JATO Dynamics. BMW said it U.S. volumes for the Z4 fell 13 percent to 2,150 cars. Typically the three biggest markets for the segment are the U.S., UK and Germany, in that order, Froehlich added.

As a result, priority to develop a newer version of the current second-generation Z4, which replaced its predecessor in 2009 after nearly seven years on the market, appears not to be high relative to other models in the brand’s pipeline.

“I would like to see a Z4 successor in this decade,” the BMW development chief said when asked about the timing of the Z4’s replacement.

Last year, BMW rival Audi scaled back its sales expectations for its latest TT as a result of shrinking overall demand in the segment.

While Audi sold 250,000 units each of the first- the second-generation TTs, sources at the automaker have said it is not realistic to expect the third-generation model to achieve the same. Instead they are hoping to increase the TT’s share of the segment.

Market researcher IHS Automotive has forecast peak output of about 40,000 to 42,000 units for the new TT coupe and roadster, compared with 56,000 units for the second-generation version.

In addition, Volkswagen said late last month that it will cease production of its Eos folding hardtop convertible by June at the latest.
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      03-10-2015, 04:51 PM   #2
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That's OK with me, I plan on driving my Z4M until the wheels fall off. ;P

I still see so very few of the "facelifted" Z4s, BMW couldn't have sold too many of them. It's sad to see, I loved dearly my Z3Ms and Z4Ms.
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      03-10-2015, 06:59 PM   #3
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The new model is a hard sale at the price. Why would you choose it over the mid engined pcar for about the same money
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      03-11-2015, 09:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
That's OK with me, I plan on driving my Z4M until the wheels fall off. ;P

I still see so very few of the "facelifted" Z4s, BMW couldn't have sold too many of them. It's sad to see, I loved dearly my Z3Ms and Z4Ms.
To be honest, I probably couldn't tell the difference between the E89 and the E89 LCI.
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      03-11-2015, 11:05 AM   #5
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The current Z is just not a compelling purchase IMO. For the money the value just isn't there. It's not practical, it's not high performance, only somewhat comfortable... It's turned into a sort of "lifestyle-mobile" like many other verts, and at a significant price premium it's no surprise it's not selling. For M3 money (Z costs more actually) with less practicality, it needs to absolutely set your hair on fire, or bring something to the table to justify its position. It doesn't.
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      03-11-2015, 11:56 AM   #6
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e85/e86 ///Mz4 >>>>> e89 z4 any day.
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      03-11-2015, 12:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni
The new model is a hard sale at the price. Why would you choose it over the mid engined pcar for about the same money
^this
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      03-11-2015, 12:58 PM   #8
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No need to "fix" that which isn't broken.

All the best.
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      03-11-2015, 01:00 PM   #9
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Put a V8 in that thing and Im all over it! For $70k I'm buying a Cayman
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      03-11-2015, 01:07 PM   #10
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To add what everyone here is saying, it's also a very heavy roadster. No good.
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      03-11-2015, 01:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taran.J
Put a V8 in that thing and Im all over it! For $70k I'm buying a Cayman
You make a good point, the Z4 (or whatever future Z car for that matter) needs to equal or beat not only the usual TT but Porsche Boxster. Maybe even a Z model to take it to the 911 range.

I like the look of them but it's no wonder Z4s don't sell that well. Doubt Porsche is having the same problem.
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      03-11-2015, 01:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post

I still see so very few of the "facelifted" Z4s, BMW couldn't have sold too many of them. .
Year, number of Z4 sold worldwide
2012 43,689
2013 36,688
2014 January till September (Fulll year figures out later in March) 8,605

For comparison, 6 Series
2012 23,193
2013 27,687
2014 January till September (Fulll year figures out later in March) 18,233

BIG drop in 2014
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      03-11-2015, 01:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
You make a good point, the Z4 (or whatever future Z car for that matter) needs to equal or beat not only the usual TT but Porsche Boxster. Maybe even a Z model to take it to the 911 range.

I like the look of them but it's no wonder Z4s don't sell that well. Doubt Porsche is having the same problem.
Porsche does have the same problem - at least in the US. The allusion of a Porsche or it's image for these types of cars automatically makes people think the Boxster dominates the segment.

Since 2007, Z4 sales averaged 4,200 a month in the US vs. 3,000 Boxster Sales. Since the E89 launched in 2008/09, the Z4 has on average, outsold the Boxster on a monthly basis: 3,000 to 2,800.

the SLK and TT suffer the same sales performance. It's not the car, it's the market/segment. These roadsters aren't as popular as they once were. Even if BMW were to come out with a radical new design and everything was perfect, sales are not going to be that much different - no one really cares for a roadster today. Cars are so much more advanced these days, why get a roadster when you could get a 3/4-Series convertible or even a 6-Series convertible? Sure they don't drive like roadsters but they all have a retractable roof and I'm willing to guess most buyers care/want that more than just having car that's classified as a roadster.
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      03-11-2015, 01:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
no one really cares for a roadster today
Ugh, there's so much wrong with the world.

I sold my last BMW for the specific reason to get BACK into a Z4M Roadster, I just missed the little thing so much. I never should have sold my first Z4M, worst car decision I've ever made. However, I'm back to happy days now and it's supposed to be 70 degrees and sunny today. Looking forward to a good 7-8 months straight of top down driving!!
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      03-11-2015, 01:56 PM   #15
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they sent the Z4 too far up market

I remember when the Z4M roadster and Coupe used to cost LESS than the M3 with the same engine. If they put the M3 engine in the Z4 now it would cost $10,000 more.

Too much competition in the new price range that is better than the Z4, they need better engines in them to be asking $70K+

hopefully the rumors are all true, Z4 will become Z5 or Z6 and a new Z3 will be announced bringing it back into the $50K range with the I6 300hp engine.

I've got 14 years until my kids are in college and I can buy a coupe again, I can wait for them to make a decent priced M Coupe again
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      03-11-2015, 01:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Ugh, there's so much wrong with the world.

I sold my last BMW for the specific reason to get BACK into a Z4M Roadster, I just missed the little thing so much. I never should have sold my first Z4M, worst car decision I've ever made. However, I'm back to happy days now and it's supposed to be 70 degrees and sunny today. Looking forward to a good 7-8 months straight of top down driving!!
I would love to own a roadster whether it be a Z4 or a Boxster someday because I like driving. But the roadster has become a car for the enthusiast who is looking specifically for a roadster, and like the driving enthusiast, those types of people are very few.
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      03-11-2015, 02:23 PM   #17
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Just make a light, Z3 sized car with a cloth top. How difficult can this be?
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      03-11-2015, 02:37 PM   #18
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Until another ZER comes along, I'll be looking into the M235 convertible.
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      03-11-2015, 02:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
You make a good point, the Z4 (or whatever future Z car for that matter) needs to equal or beat not only the usual TT but Porsche Boxster. Maybe even a Z model to take it to the 911 range.

I like the look of them but it's no wonder Z4s don't sell that well. Doubt Porsche is having the same problem.
Porsche does have the same problem - at least in the US. The allusion of a Porsche or it's image for these types of cars automatically makes people think the Boxster dominates the segment.

Since 2007, Z4 sales averaged 4,200 a month in the US vs. 3,000 Boxster Sales. Since the E89 launched in 2008/09, the Z4 has on average, outsold the Boxster on a monthly basis: 3,000 to 2,800.

the SLK and TT suffer the same sales performance. It's not the car, it's the market/segment. These roadsters aren't as popular as they once were. Even if BMW were to come out with a radical new design and everything was perfect, sales are not going to be that much different - no one really cares for a roadster today. Cars are so much more advanced these days, why get a roadster when you could get a 3/4-Series convertible or even a 6-Series convertible? Sure they don't drive like roadsters but they all have a retractable roof and I'm willing to guess most buyers care/want that more than just having car that's classified as a roadster.
What do the numbers look like when you add in Cayman sales though? The boxster and cayman share many parts so there is an economy of scales advantage for Porsche there. By
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      03-11-2015, 03:13 PM   #20
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Z4 becomes the Z5!!!!!

And the Z3 will be reborn.
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      03-11-2015, 03:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taran.J
Put a V8 in that thing and Im all over it! For $70k I'm buying a Cayman
Lol
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      03-11-2015, 03:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
What do the numbers look like when you add in Cayman sales though? The boxster and cayman share many parts so there is an economy of scales advantage for Porsche there. By
If we add the Cayman, add another 2,000 units/month on average. But someone looking for a Cayman is likely not looking at the Z4, TT, SLK or even the Boxster. There might be some overlap but just threw those numbers in to compare direct competitors in this segment which wouldn't include the Cayman (no retractable roof).

At the end of the day, these types of cars just don't move a lot of units and it's not because of design or anything else that was mentioned in this thread.
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