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      08-09-2020, 05:25 PM   #595
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
but i cant see any reason why Ferrari d tweak his car to perform worse.. they need points for cons. championship anyway for example.. what Ferrari can profit out this?
It's not all profit. They have to show the world (mostly idiots) that their decision to get rid of him is the coolest decision and Charles is outpacing him every race (although he didn't in Austria 2 qualy and in Hungary).
Martin Brundle is a very politically correct person so when he says: "How is foir time champion so far behind Leclerc when they're driving there same car" you know that he's insinuating that they're not driving there same car.
Elkann is a very proud mofo. Binotto is sneaky as a fox. They both think they have a plan to bring Ferrari back to glory and like old dumb Enzo they like to blame the driver not the car.
No denying Vettel committed serious mistakes but I blame him for not divorcing Ferrari sooner because it looks like the cars are good, we know he's good, but the relationship isn't working.
Why else would they place him where he specifically told them not to? He knows his pace and race conditions more than their pit wall clowns.
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      08-09-2020, 05:26 PM   #596
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
but i cant see any reason why Ferrari d tweak his car to perform worse.. they need points for cons. championship anyway for example.. what Ferrari can profit out this?
There isn't enough evidence that Ferrari is tweaking Vettel's car to perform worse. Chances are, they just built a terrible 2020 car. With Vettel on his way out, Ferrari is definitely catering the better strategies and upgrades to Leclerc in all situations which would result in Vettel doing worse overall. This has been a Ferrari trademark for a while and this is nothing new to me.

Like you said, Ferrari doesn't stand to benefit from this but from a championship standpoint, I feel like they've already conceded that they're not in any title hunt for either championships.

While they want to get as many points as possible, I think they're just eagerly waiting for this Vettel/Ferrari divorce to be over with.
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      08-09-2020, 05:52 PM   #597
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I don't understand how pitting to change 11 lap old hards to go 18 laps on mediums not intentionally sabotaging Vettel's race? Yes, he spun. But he could've had a good come back if they didn't fuck up.

And what Vettel said about the team not having the courage to let Leclerc pass him although they were on different strategies shows how little trust the team has in Vettel and him in them.
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      08-09-2020, 06:12 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
I don't understand how pitting to change 11 lap old hards to go 18 laps on mediums not intentionally sabotaging Vettel's race? Yes, he spun. But he could've had a good come back if they didn't fuck up.

And what Vettel said about the team not having the courage to let Leclerc pass him although they were on different strategies shows how little trust the team has in Vettel and him in them.
i dont remember where he was at that time but maybe for taking him out of traffic or there were some vibrations because he probably cooked his tires at that spin.. there are still some more races to come.. i want Vettel to perform much better than this believe me.. in last 2 years its always something but not Vettel can be the source of the problem.. i dont like this at all.. drivers can have ups and downs but i really dont think Ferrari is loosening some bolts on his car.. Ferrari doesnt want him and Vettel wants to leave.. not much options for him as well at this time, otherwise donno Ferrari might think to break his price for next year but its not like this and Ferrari has money.. and at the same if they want they can swap to a reserved driver as well.. Gio is busy but Pascal Wehrlein is available for such a change.. racing with such results not helping each side anyway..

besides i believe Vettel's decision was made last year already that im not sure there are not much people to be convinced about the decision.. i cant tell anything about the internal dynamics of Ferrari these days but Binotto is a part of Ferrari like 20-25 years as far as i remember.. maybe less or more but internal bigheads of Ferrari really do trust him.. not sure he is the best guy for this job and i have no idea who else already in Ferrari can do a better job than him.. 1 or 2 max more races later if things wont go north if i were Vettel i d stop racing for Ferrari this season.. take some time off relax refresh and start racing again with a new team..he wont miss a whole year actually its already 8th month of the year new season will start on March again probably.. before the race at the grid idk if you ve seen Vettel but his eyes were frozen.. staring to emptiness in some other world.. like depression eyes.. and its a sad picture to see..
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      08-09-2020, 06:18 PM   #599
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So why did Hulk get pitted again? To let Stroll beat him?
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      08-09-2020, 06:31 PM   #600
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Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
So why did Hulk get pitted again? To let Stroll beat him?
Hulk was suffering from massive vibrations and they had to bring him in to ensure that he made it to the end of the race. Hulk confirmed how bad the vibrations were. Conveniently enough, Stroll was able to pass.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/nico-h...-late-pitstop/
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      08-09-2020, 07:03 PM   #601
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
i dont remember where he was at that time but maybe for taking him out of traffic or there were some vibrations because he probably cooked his tires at that spin.. there are still some more races to come.. i want Vettel to perform much better than this believe me.. in last 2 years its always something but not Vettel can be the source of the problem.. i dont like this at all.. drivers can have ups and downs but i really dont think Ferrari is loosening some bolts on his car.. Ferrari doesnt want him and Vettel wants to leave.. not much options for him as well at this time, otherwise donno Ferrari might think to break his price for next year but its not like this and Ferrari has money.. and at the same if they want they can swap to a reserved driver as well.. Gio is busy but Pascal Wehrlein is available for such a change.. racing with such results not helping each side anyway..

besides i believe Vettel's decision was made last year already that im not sure there are not much people to be convinced about the decision.. i cant tell anything about the internal dynamics of Ferrari these days but Binotto is a part of Ferrari like 20-25 years as far as i remember.. maybe less or more but internal bigheads of Ferrari really do trust him.. not sure he is the best guy for this job and i have no idea who else already in Ferrari can do a better job than him.. 1 or 2 max more races later if things wont go north if i were Vettel i d stop racing for Ferrari this season.. take some time off relax refresh and start racing again with a new team..he wont miss a whole year actually its already 8th month of the year new season will start on March again probably.. before the race at the grid idk if you ve seen Vettel but his eyes were frozen.. staring to emptiness in some other world.. like depression eyes.. and its a sad picture to see..
Environment changes everything. Hamilton's environment is activism and hanging out with celebs and whatever. Ricciardo finds peace with his friend artists and on the farm off-roading. Vettel is obsessed with formula 1 and he only finds peace withing his team. RBR have him a great car but they also have him a safe place. Horner once said in an interview 2015 or 2016 that he treated Vettel as a little brother and that he hopes he can find that in Ferrari. Horner knew that Vettel's Ferrari career is doomed before it started. Arrivabene was a little close to Vettel but he was also a tool used by the bosses and he never protected the drivers from politics. I understand people may criticize a grown-ass man for messing up because he doesn't feel loved but that's why 99% of his fans (including me) love him.
That's something no stats and no telemetry can explain.

This is the pit stop I'm talking about. Driving alone at a good pace then stop for no reason.
https://streamable.com/vwvobw

Last edited by msk340i; 08-09-2020 at 08:05 PM..
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      08-09-2020, 09:31 PM   #602
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Begins at the 0:24 mark, Hamilton's Muscle Memory at work
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      08-10-2020, 01:56 AM   #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
Environment changes everything. Hamilton's environment is activism and hanging out with celebs and whatever. Ricciardo finds peace with his friend artists and on the farm off-roading. Vettel is obsessed with formula 1 and he only finds peace withing his team. RBR have him a great car but they also have him a safe place. Horner once said in an interview 2015 or 2016 that he treated Vettel as a little brother and that he hopes he can find that in Ferrari. Horner knew that Vettel's Ferrari career is doomed before it started. Arrivabene was a little close to Vettel but he was also a tool used by the bosses and he never protected the drivers from politics. I understand people may criticize a grown-ass man for messing up because he doesn't feel loved but that's why 99% of his fans (including me) love him.
That's something no stats and no telemetry can explain.

This is the pit stop I'm talking about. Driving alone at a good pace then stop for no reason.
https://streamable.com/vwvobw
it looks like Ferrari pitted him for hard tires again.. really cant remember the dynamics of Vettel's race but if its that obvious that he pitted for nothing can be since i have no idea.. what was his engineer said after Vettel says he can continue? box for something but couldnt understand that..

as far as i remember Vettel finds peace by spending time at home fixing things and he needs to those stuff these days really to recharge.. but there is no time for those in this period thats another thing..

i totally agree how Vettel - Ferrari relationship is broken at the moment.. cause on the radio Vettel was telling you messed up openly.. you dont hear such things on TV normally.. it is broken for sure..

i respect fully for anyone supports Vettel and love for him..
but again there are some facts.. Vettel went to Ferrari by his will with better salary.. no one fired him from Red Bull.. probably almost all drivers dream to race in Ferrari.. another fact that his relationship with Ferrari was great at the beginning both sides had high hopes, still remember his first test with Ferrari and how excited he was.. Vettel was being protected nicely while he was teammates with Kimi.. he had no problem with the team.. so things werent like this from the beginning.. i can understand why you "victimizing" Vettel in this but there is at least 50% of fault on him if this Ferrari - Vettel relationship went downhill.. yes another fact Ferrari's 2020 car is probably 3rd fastest car at most.. but again Vettel is good on data and setup.. i hope he is comparing Leclerc's car telemetry his inputs etc. to check whats going on on his side..

so in short.. if you take a look just this season it may look like Vettel is a victim of all this.. partially yes but not completely.. Ferrari is more magical as long as you re outside i agree.. historically many examples of how relationships with drivers can go south within the team if you make mistakes etc.. even i know this im sure Vettel knew as well.. his relationships with people is not bad, he is not like Bottas.. not timid.. and actually i was surprised how long Ferrari believed in him after the spin he had on Monza while going side to side with Lewis.. Ferrari inner politics and Italian press plays a huge role on Ferrari dynamics.. i spent few years with Italians in total and they do get influenced not that hard i agree.. but either Vettel should fight his way out of this asap or as i ve said if its not working i dont see any reason a driver has 4 tittles cant even get some points of this stage of his career to go on.. he needs to refresh badly.. and probably not Kimi but having Leclerc on the other side of the garage is not making things easier.. i really hope this will change from the next race.. its even making me sad to watch him with this mood..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtaron14 View Post
Begins at the 0:24 mark, Hamilton's Muscle Memory at work
ahahaha neat work there..
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      08-10-2020, 02:26 AM   #604
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Tomorrow my friend ..I have to leave for work very early at : 04:30 AM
Have fun my friend with a nice dive in your pool

This victory will give MAX a lot of confidence in the next races ...
^^Seems vader can't keep his hands off of Max's winnings
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      08-10-2020, 02:44 AM   #605
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Send MBelgium and Racerbruce some of that awesome BBQ
Sorry Racerbruce,everything went then..even the bbq sauce!
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      08-10-2020, 02:54 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
Environment changes everything. Hamilton's environment is activism and hanging out with celebs and whatever. Ricciardo finds peace with his friend artists and on the farm off-roading. Vettel is obsessed with formula 1 and he only finds peace withing his team. RBR have him a great car but they also have him a safe place. Horner once said in an interview 2015 or 2016 that he treated Vettel as a little brother and that he hopes he can find that in Ferrari. Horner knew that Vettel's Ferrari career is doomed before it started. Arrivabene was a little close to Vettel but he was also a tool used by the bosses and he never protected the drivers from politics. I understand people may criticize a grown-ass man for messing up because he doesn't feel loved but that's why 99% of his fans (including me) love him.
That's something no stats and no telemetry can explain.

This is the pit stop I'm talking about. Driving alone at a good pace then stop for no reason.
https://streamable.com/vwvobw
Binotto has offered to VET to change his chassis tub if he so wishes.
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      08-10-2020, 07:25 AM   #607
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Binotto has offered to VET to change his chassis tub if he so wishes.
When was that? Before or after the race?
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      08-10-2020, 07:29 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
it looks like Ferrari pitted him for hard tires again.. really cant remember the dynamics of Vettel's race but if its that obvious that he pitted for nothing can be since i have no idea.. what was his engineer said after Vettel says he can continue? box for something but couldnt understand that..

as far as i remember Vettel finds peace by spending time at home fixing things and he needs to those stuff these days really to recharge.. but there is no time for those in this period thats another thing..

i totally agree how Vettel - Ferrari relationship is broken at the moment.. cause on the radio Vettel was telling you messed up openly.. you dont hear such things on TV normally.. it is broken for sure..

i respect fully for anyone supports Vettel and love for him..
but again there are some facts.. Vettel went to Ferrari by his will with better salary.. no one fired him from Red Bull.. probably almost all drivers dream to race in Ferrari.. another fact that his relationship with Ferrari was great at the beginning both sides had high hopes, still remember his first test with Ferrari and how excited he was.. Vettel was being protected nicely while he was teammates with Kimi.. he had no problem with the team.. so things werent like this from the beginning.. i can understand why you "victimizing" Vettel in this but there is at least 50% of fault on him if this Ferrari - Vettel relationship went downhill.. yes another fact Ferrari's 2020 car is probably 3rd fastest car at most.. but again Vettel is good on data and setup.. i hope he is comparing Leclerc's car telemetry his inputs etc. to check whats going on on his side..

so in short.. if you take a look just this season it may look like Vettel is a victim of all this.. partially yes but not completely.. Ferrari is more magical as long as you re outside i agree.. historically many examples of how relationships with drivers can go south within the team if you make mistakes etc.. even i know this im sure Vettel knew as well.. his relationships with people is not bad, he is not like Bottas.. not timid.. and actually i was surprised how long Ferrari believed in him after the spin he had on Monza while going side to side with Lewis.. Ferrari inner politics and Italian press plays a huge role on Ferrari dynamics.. i spent few years with Italians in total and they do get influenced not that hard i agree.. but either Vettel should fight his way out of this asap or as i ve said if its not working i dont see any reason a driver has 4 tittles cant even get some points of this stage of his career to go on.. he needs to refresh badly.. and probably not Kimi but having Leclerc on the other side of the garage is not making things easier.. i really hope this will change from the next race.. its even making me sad to watch him with this mood..



ahahaha neat work there..

You're absolutely right. I can't argue with you on any of the points you made.
He made a lot of mistakes. The relationship status is to be blamed on both sides. For the time being I have a feeling that next year is already decided (contract signed or retirement) and he is no longer motivated. Yes, he is technical and he knows his way around the car but for him to be reaching down there pedal box and calling out the pit wall over there radio shows that he is working against the team and the trust is lost not only in management but probably in the mechanics around him. If that's true then that's disaster because he will always have doubt and lack of confidence going 200 mph.
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      08-10-2020, 07:37 AM   #609
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When was that? Before or after the race?
As the last two weekends were bad for Seb then the swap would be in time for Barcelona, Mattia has given Seb a free rein to commandeer the swap with the engineers,so if I were him I'd get cracking.
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      08-10-2020, 07:53 AM   #610
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As the last two weekends were bad for Seb then the swap would be in time for Barcelona, Mattia has given Seb a free rein to commandeer the swap with the engineers,so if I were him I'd get cracking.
Terrible leader. Asking his driver to make a decision like that.
Anyway, your boy showed some serious consistency there. And he got faster the older the tires got 😱 but that strategy call to pit him just when his tires reached maximum performance was genius!
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      08-10-2020, 08:05 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by msk340i View Post
Terrible leader. Asking his driver to make a decision like that.
Anyway, your boy showed some serious consistency there. And he got faster the older the tires got �� but that strategy call to pit him just when his tires reached maximum performance was genius!
Yeah,Binotto's job spec has changed. He now oversees and makes decisions on nearly everything but doesn't actually get involved in the 'nuts and bolts' side of it leaving it for the machanics etc.
Max coming in when BOT did was a tyre comfort decision with RB having the longer rein to play with and to eradicate any chance of tyre failure even with seemingly good condition tyres.
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      08-10-2020, 08:12 AM   #612
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Yeah,Binotto's job spec has changed. He now oversees and makes decisions on nearly everything but doesn't actually get involved in the 'nuts and bolts' side of it leaving it for the machanics etc.
Max coming in when BOT did was a tyre comfort decision with RB having the longer rein to play with and to eradicate any chance of tyre failure even with seemingly good condition tyres.
Max's laps 12-25 time sheet is just beautiful. Very consistent. This is what "total race time" racing vs battling is.
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      08-10-2020, 08:19 AM   #613
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Max's laps 12-25 time sheet is just beautiful. Very consistent.
Max took executive control of the whole thing from the engineer early back. 'No,NOW is the EXACT time to squeeze them, no holding back, their rubber look like rolls of noir pizza'! (or words to that effect
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      08-10-2020, 09:18 AM   #614
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Max took executive control of the whole thing from the engineer early back. 'No,NOW is the EXACT time to squeeze them, no holding back, their rubber look like rolls of noir pizza'! (or words to that effect
According Binotto : SEB has still faith in me !

If I was SEB , I would kick Binotto's A$$ !
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      08-10-2020, 09:26 AM   #615
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According Binotto : SEB has still faith in me !

If I was SEB , I would kick Binotto's A$$ !
Hope your day went ok my friend from the early start.
Seb has no choice, if he directs bad choice of words he'll be behind Kimi all the time in an SF wild west wagon
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      08-10-2020, 09:46 AM   #616
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birds are telling that Max will be at Merc' in 2022 or 23?
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