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      09-23-2020, 09:15 AM   #23
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After the staggared RFT were spent on the E90 long ago, I swapped to GFT (go-flat tires). Knowing the RFT were stiffer sidewalls, I went to a square 18" set up and ran GFT high performance all- season. 245/35-18 XL rated.

One late Christmas Eve, out in West BF Nowhere, where I live, I ran over a block of 2x4. Yep, there was a nail in it. The FTM popped up. Being it was near midnight, very cold, the wife shithammered sitting in the back with the pups, I decided to trek the last 30 miles home rather than try and plug the tire.

Next day, I check the pressure, flat as a pancake. Threw the E90 up on the lift to see how bad the leak was. The tire went flat in about 2 minutes, so I drove home on a GFT 30 miles with zero pressure in it. My conclusion from that experience is large diameter, low-profile GFT with XL load rating, are as good as more expensive RFT. Granted it was below 30 degrees, but the tire stayed completely intact.
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      09-23-2020, 09:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
4. If you frequent deserted stretches with the next major city hundreds of miles away (everyone always seems to claim this) then a spare donut or maybe runflats are in order, but the % of people that really need this is going to be a small % in reality.
Had sidewall tire damage twice. Once in the middle of Idaho and once in the middle of So.Cal. In both cases we could not get a new tire until 1-2 days out. Even as a normal tire it could not be repaired. A run flat tire or donut tire would have been no help because the tire was toast but even if not once damaged one should only drive ~50 miles at not more than ~50 mph. That is fine if yer in the city but when hundreds of miles between towns or from home that is a PITA.

As such, neither a spare donut or run flats are in order. Carry a real spare.
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      09-23-2020, 10:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BeEmVe View Post
Had sidewall tire damage twice. Once in the middle of Idaho and once in the middle of So.Cal. In both cases we could not get a new tire until 1-2 days out. Even as a normal tire it could not be repaired. A run flat tire or donut tire would have been no help because the tire was toast but even if not once damaged one should only drive ~50 miles at not more than ~50 mph. That is fine if yer in the city but when hundreds of miles between towns or from home that is a PITA.

As such, neither a spare donut or run flats are in order. Carry a real spare.
Yeah, such a rare occurrence these days with modern tires, especially given most people are not driving cross-country all the time. Carry what you feel comfortable.
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      09-23-2020, 10:26 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Emilime75 View Post
Right, so like I was saying, how is this RFT specific?
The point you missed was that all this time, you are paying more due to the RFT nature of the tires and this is where they "get you" as far as raking in more revenue and profit. It's the gift that keeps on giving to the dealership and tire-shop.
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      09-23-2020, 10:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
After the staggared RFT were spent on the E90 long ago, I swapped to GFT (go-flat tires). Knowing the RFT were stiffer sidewalls, I went to a square 18" set up and ran GFT high performance all- season. 245/35-18 XL rated.

One late Christmas Eve, out in West BF Nowhere, where I live, I ran over a block of 2x4. Yep, there was a nail in it. The FTM popped up. Being it was near midnight, very cold, the wife shithammered sitting in the back with the pups, I decided to trek the last 30 miles home rather than try and plug the tire.

Next day, I check the pressure, flat as a pancake. Threw the E90 up on the lift to see how bad the leak was. The tire went flat in about 2 minutes, so I drove home on a GFT 30 miles with zero pressure in it. My conclusion from that experience is large diameter, low-profile GFT with XL load rating, are as good as more expensive RFT. Granted it was below 30 degrees, but the tire stayed completely intact.
Tires will stay somewhat rigid due to centripetal force, especially at speed, and then most modern tires will tend to seal pretty well around a small puncture IME, so it's likely you had some help there.
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      09-23-2020, 10:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
I don't know about you, but as soon as my OEM run flats wear out, I switch to proper go flat tires. I find the ride way better. I haven't had a flat in years and I keep a kit in my car with air compressor in case I get caught in the middle of nowhere.


Of course, tire companies will tell you the car was designed for run flats and try to get you to pay for the higher-priced, possibly higher-margin tires. A "tire advisor" at American Tire recently told someone I know that go flat tires are dangerous and 40 series go flats could damage his rim.

What stories have tire dealers told you to try to keep you in run flats?
"You're wife is driving at night in an unknown area. She's lost. She gets a flat. You're out with your pals. The recovery truck can't get to her..."

Thankfully I showed the woman how to swap a wheel out.

Even... "you're going on vacation but need all the boot space you can get so you don't want to be carrying a spare tire."

The way I see it. A run flat won't save you from a blow out. Even when it's blown out it's no different to a non-rft.

There are some great non rft out there. Cheaper and better...

The only rft I have ever liked was the Michellin zero pressure. It had all the characteristics of a non-rft but weighed a little more that's all.

Michellin have since launched an even better rft that ways the same as a non-rft. I think we're headed to airless tires... hopefully those are out in this lifetime.

Then you have the shady garages refusing to repair a rft and insisting once it's gone it's gone.

I carry a tire plug kit and tire repair kit (conti mobility kit).
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      09-23-2020, 11:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
The point you missed was that all this time, you are paying more due to the RFT nature of the tires and this is where they "get you" as far as raking in more revenue and profit. It's the gift that keeps on giving to the dealership and tire-shop.
I didn't miss anything. You made claims and I questioned how those were RFT specific when any tire would be effected the same. Was hoping you'd have some insight I didn't know about...but, you don't.

And the point you missed is that I already said I don't buy RFTs, so no one is "getting me". To take that further, a RFT costs more to produce and is heavier resulting in higher shipping costs - this results in a higher cost to the consumer. Where is your data that shows RFTs have a higher profit margin as compared to a non RFT?

For the record, I'm not here trying to argue with you. I'm actually interested in knowing more about the subject discussed.
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      09-23-2020, 11:58 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Tires will stay somewhat rigid due to centripetal force, especially at speed, and then most modern tires will tend to seal pretty well around a small puncture IME, so it's likely you had some help there.
I'll give some credit to the sub-freezing ambient temperature. But no on the self sealing. There was no object in the puncture hole. I found the hole because I had the tire at head level and the exhaust from the puncture hit me in the face. The tire aired out in under two minutes. I have a lift and compressed air. I checked it 3 times.

My point is that low aspect ratio tires rated at an XL load capacity are as good or near as good as RFT.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 09-23-2020 at 12:08 PM..
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      09-23-2020, 12:11 PM   #31
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Don't dismiss the 50/50 setup either, it will keep a lot of cruising weight off the low tire in theory anyways. The sway bar would hold it up and the spring would push down... not fun on steering wheels but a tread life saver.
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      09-23-2020, 12:14 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Glo View Post

Then you have the shady garages refusing to repair a rft and insisting once it's gone it's gone.

I carry a tire plug kit and tire repair kit (conti mobility kit).
I don't think they are necessarily "shady". It's a liability issue. If they fix a RFT that has been damaged due to running on low pressure, they'd be liable for it. I've had a RFT plugged and patched. I approached it as (a) assuring the shop I drove on the tire only a few miles under recommended air pressure (my E90), and (b) it's an all-cash transaction with no paperwork (trail).

They had no problem repairing the tire.
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      09-23-2020, 12:34 PM   #33
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Tump rides on run-flats.

mic drop.
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      09-23-2020, 01:12 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Glo View Post

Then you have the shady garages refusing to repair a rft and insisting once it's gone it's gone.

I carry a tire plug kit and tire repair kit (conti mobility kit).
I don't think they are necessarily "shady". It's a liability issue. If they fix a RFT that has been damaged due to running on low pressure, they'd be liable for it. I've had a RFT plugged and patched. I approached it as (a) assuring the shop I drove on the tire only a few miles under recommended air pressure (my E90), and (b) it's an all-cash transaction with no paperwork (trail).

They had no problem repairing the tire.
That and genuinely shops that want to sell a new tire and make money. Those are the ones. Like I went to one. I drove less than 800 yards under 40 mph to get there when there was a screw in the tire but the shop was "no it's illegal to repair sir." So why wouldn't they? Someone just wants to get home right? Suddenly the mark up of the tire is higher than elsewhere and it's "dangerous" to leave. That kind of stuff. People profiting from someone's misery.
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      09-23-2020, 02:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul_Glo View Post
That and genuinely shops that want to sell a new tire and make money. Those are the ones. Like I went to one. I drove less than 800 yards under 40 mph to get there when there was a screw in the tire but the shop was "no it's illegal to repair sir." So why wouldn't they? Someone just wants to get home right? Suddenly the mark up of the tire is higher than elsewhere and it's "dangerous" to leave. That kind of stuff. People profiting from someone's misery.
A lot of time it depends on the type of store. Chains that have rules set at a corporate level will often not allow them to repair runflats because of liability issues and the inability to control all of the possible things that the customer might say regardless of whether true or not. The "you can fix a runflat if the customer says "X"" is impossible to enforce, better to just say not to do it. I don't at all believe it is illegal to fix it.

Not too long ago I tried to get 2 different large tire stores to patch my wife's Acura tire and both said they wouldn't as the tires were over 5 years old. I took it to an independent and he recommended we get new tires and then fixed it. Within 3 months we replaced all 4 tires (serious doubts it mattered in our climate) but I didn't want to do it that day and thought the liability should have been on us. It's their store and they are welcome to have whatever rules they want to have.
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      09-23-2020, 03:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
After the staggared RFT were spent on the E90 long ago, I swapped to GFT (go-flat tires). Knowing the RFT were stiffer sidewalls, I went to a square 18" set up and ran GFT high performance all- season. 245/35-18 XL rated.

One late Christmas Eve, out in West BF Nowhere, where I live, I ran over a block of 2x4. Yep, there was a nail in it. The FTM popped up. Being it was near midnight, very cold, the wife shithammered sitting in the back with the pups, I decided to trek the last 30 miles home rather than try and plug the tire.

Next day, I check the pressure, flat as a pancake. Threw the E90 up on the lift to see how bad the leak was. The tire went flat in about 2 minutes, so I drove home on a GFT 30 miles with zero pressure in it. My conclusion from that experience is large diameter, low-profile GFT with XL load rating, are as good as more expensive RFT. Granted it was below 30 degrees, but the tire stayed completely intact.
E90 RFT had shorter sidewalls vs F3x RFT. Did ya know?
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      09-23-2020, 03:34 PM   #37
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I enjoy it when they tell you that run flats are "insurance" and then try to sell you the tire replacement package. Yes, so that would be insurance for your insurance.

I just tell them that I'm not medically cleared to drive on runflats because the ride is so harsh it makes me sterile.
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      09-23-2020, 04:02 PM   #38
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I enjoy it when they tell you that run flats are "insurance" and then try to sell you the tire replacement package. Yes, so that would be insurance for your insurance.

I just tell them that I'm not medically cleared to drive on runflats because the ride is so harsh it makes me sterile.
Your description of harsh reminded me: I might be the only person who actually saved money because of run flats.

I had a beautiful E39 540 with M-tech package and I decided to test drive the brand new F10 when it first came out. (I skipped the fugly E60). I was pulling out of the lot to start the test drive and it felt like was driving Fred Flintstone's car. I had not even driven that F10 200 feet and I wanted to turn around and hand the keys back to them.

Having driven 5ers for 20 years at that point, I was just stunned how bad it was. Anyway, I kept the E39 for another couple of years and saved a lot of money doing so.

Now, of course, run flat harshness has lessened as the "technology?" improves. But, it's go flats for me.
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      09-23-2020, 04:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
I don't know about you, but as soon as my OEM run flats wear out, I switch to proper go flat tires. I find the ride way better. I haven't had a flat in years and I keep a kit in my car with air compressor in case I get caught in the middle of nowhere.


Of course, tire companies will tell you the car was designed for run flats and try to get you to pay for the higher-priced, possibly higher-margin tires. A "tire advisor" at American Tire recently told someone I know that go flat tires are dangerous and 40 series go flats could damage his rim.

What stories have tire dealers told you to try to keep you in run flats?
The premise behind RFT is that

#1 The speed rating is voided on repaired tires #2 Donuts are single use and therefore must be replaced.
#3 Not all tires can be repaired.

Consequently a new go flat + new donut spare would cost about the same as one new RFT. Oh and no, you don't need to shave the tread on a replacement tire. That's only applicable to race/track cars.

Now obviously in real life people don't replace their donut spare, and will not care about the speed rating on their HP tire because they have those tires for looks anyways.
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      09-23-2020, 04:58 PM   #40
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lots of fear tactics with cars. crankhubs, run flat, warranties.

I wish warranties were optional. i'd take a 10k discount off a new 911 if it meant no warranty. runflats aren't worth it either, extremely stiff and heavy.
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      09-24-2020, 05:47 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
A lot of time it depends on the type of store. Chains that have rules set at a corporate level will often not allow them to repair runflats because of liability issues and the inability to control all of the possible things that the customer might say regardless of whether true or not. The "you can fix a runflat if the customer says "X"" is impossible to enforce, better to just say not to do it. I don't at all believe it is illegal to fix it.

Not too long ago I tried to get 2 different large tire stores to patch my wife's Acura tire and both said they wouldn't as the tires were over 5 years old. I took it to an independent and he recommended we get new tires and then fixed it. Within 3 months we replaced all 4 tires (serious doubts it mattered in our climate) but I didn't want to do it that day and thought the liability should have been on us. It's their store and they are welcome to have whatever rules they want to have.
The tire shop I went to was in the Finger Lakes region and was a GoodYear corporate store. I chose GoodYear because in 2006, when RFT wasn't that popular, I knew GoodYear supplied the RFT tires for the Corvette, so I figured they'd have dealt with RFT.

It simply how you approach the SA so he doesn't figure you for some dumb fuck trying to save a few dollars.
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      09-24-2020, 07:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The tire shop I went to was in the Finger Lakes region and was a GoodYear corporate store. I chose GoodYear because in 2006, when RFT wasn't that popular, I knew GoodYear supplied the RFT tires for the Corvette, so I figured they'd have dealt with RFT.

It simply how you approach the SA so he doesn't figure you for some dumb fuck trying to save a few dollars.
The idea that you got it done at a store because you're not a dumb fuck when others can't at other stores means nothing. Some chains and stores simply won't do some things that others will. What you are missing is the idea that your one instance doesn't prove anything.
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      09-24-2020, 08:56 AM   #43
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Well, I've learned a lot in this thread. Thx.

Did not realize BMW tuned the suspension to RFTs. And Conventionals will cause the suspension to feel a bit softer

I will air up the PS4S on 20 inchers by a few pounds First time I've ever had 20 in wheels and the M Suspension.

My Tire Kit in each BMW now consists of KenSun AirCompressor, Tireject Kit, Extra Packet of Tireject, Needle Nose Pliers, Plug, Plug Reemers and Insertion tools, Rubber Cement, Air Gauge. And if all else fails, BMW SOS.

I've found that Conventional Tires on 19 and 20 inchers do smooth out the ride immensely, especially on city streets and backroads, which tend to be choppy. They are quieter on the highway. It makes the car liveable for all.

I changed on an F10 and had 46k mi on Conventionals. No issues in regular driving.
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      09-24-2020, 09:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
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The idea that you got it done at a store because you're not a dumb fuck when others can't at other stores means nothing. Some chains and stores simply won't do some things that others will. What you are missing is the idea that your one instance doesn't prove anything.
It's called the art of negotiation.
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