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      01-19-2020, 02:56 AM   #23
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BMW gets ragged on for being "behind" Audi and Mercedes in the EV game. But what have those automakers' EVs accomplished?

The E-tron is a total flop. Forget Tesla, this car's #1 competition is sitting next to it in the same showroom and is named the Q5. The Q5 looks the same and is about the same size but is $30,000 less. Then you have the larger and more luxurious Q7 priced $20,000 less.

Tesla succeeds because they've carved EV as their niche. If you want a Tesla you have to get that model. The legacy automakers on the other hand, are competing against themselves on price.
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      01-19-2020, 05:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
BMW gets ragged on for being "behind" Audi and Mercedes in the EV game. But what have those automakers' EVs accomplished?

The E-tron is a total flop. Forget Tesla, this car's #1 competition is sitting next to it in the same showroom and is named the Q5. The Q5 looks the same and is about the same size but is $30,000 less. Then you have the larger and more luxurious Q7 priced $20,000 less.

Tesla succeeds because they've carved EV as their niche. If you want a Tesla you have to get that model. The legacy automakers on the other hand, are competing against themselves on price.
I don't know about you fam, but I would rather see normal looking EVs rather than something straight out of HotWheels and GTAs design department
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      01-19-2020, 03:11 PM   #25
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I don't know about you fam, but I would rather see normal looking EVs rather than something straight out of HotWheels and GTAs design department
I'm not commenting on that. I'm basically saying the E-tron has zero redeeming qualities compared to the significantly cheaper Q5 sitting next to it in the dealership.
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      01-20-2020, 10:02 AM   #26
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Autonomous driving is one of the great fake news stories of all time. From day one I said it was way, way too difficult to implement and in the past 2 years i have been proven right. It's actually gone BACKWARDS as the failings of the existing system have been exposed.

It won't happen for 50 years, it's fantasy.
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      01-20-2020, 10:59 AM   #27
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we aren't there yet

still, if you road trip or do a lot of highway commuting it makes sense to have autopilot/lane assist. I drove a VW with the lane assist recently and it does well as long as it can see the lines.
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      01-20-2020, 11:08 AM   #28
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Current tech is gimmicky IMO. Back up cameras, blind spot monitoring, auto braking, lane assist etc.. What happened to moving your neck to look around? Focusing on the 4000lb+ machine you alone are responsible for. Sure, some people have disabilities but I think in the general population these things are creating poor driving habits.

EVs are another story.
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      01-20-2020, 06:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
BMW gets ragged on for being "behind" Audi and Mercedes in the EV game. But what have those automakers' EVs accomplished?

The E-tron is a total flop. Forget Tesla, this car's #1 competition is sitting next to it in the same showroom and is named the Q5. The Q5 looks the same and is about the same size but is $30,000 less. Then you have the larger and more luxurious Q7 priced $20,000 less.

Tesla succeeds because they've carved EV as their niche. If you want a Tesla you have to get that model. The legacy automakers on the other hand, are competing against themselves on price.
100% Agree, the E-tron is a huge embarrassment of an EV. I know forums typically highlight problems more than great things for a car, but the E-Tron community seems pretty split between people who like their car and those who keep experience inconvenience after inconvenience, especially with that of range and charging and elctrical gremlins, especially the Electrify America chargers which are very problematic (if they're working, since many don't).

My friend was looking at one, and was close, but a test drive and a look at the forums steered him to Tesla, and I don't blame him, honestly, the only EV I would buy is from Tesla. Surprisingly my local dealer is having such a hard time selling them, they've made two of them loaners!

Thought this article was pretty interesting https://insideevs.com/news/387598/au...ging-concerns/
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      02-01-2020, 11:17 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
we aren't there yet

still, if you road trip or do a lot of highway commuting it makes sense to have autopilot/lane assist. I drove a VW with the lane assist recently and it does well as long as it can see the lines.
Self driving tech or aides as most of them are right now are here to stay. I love driving my C7, rowing through the gears, listening to the noise it makes... however I don't love it all the time. Sometimes I just need to get from point a to point b with the least amount of stress from all the assholes on the road.

I got a 2020 Corolla to drive around town and what not since I don't like to take out the C7 all the time, I don't much care for driving the truck in town and the gf doesn't like driving either. Anyways we had one as a rental out in CA earlier in the year and I found it to be pretty nice for what it is. It has lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control. For a sub $20k car I found the features to be fantastic. Made highway driving sooo much less exhausting. You may not consciously notice it but making all those tiny adjustments on the highway wears on you on long drives.

Anyways picked up a comma.ai device for the car around xmas time. That thing is a total game changer. Once I'm on the highway it can pretty much take over until I get off in Miami almost an hour later. Rarely have I had to intervene. Is it perfect? Hell no. That's why I'm always as attentive as if I was driving myself. It does have driver monitoring so if you look away, fall asleep etc it will disengage. THAT is the biggest issue I think. People thinking this stuff is flawless and they can take a nap or eat shit on their phone because the car is "driving itself". I think we are quite a ways away from that regardless of what Elon Musk says (have you seen the videos of cars being summed? They are dumb and slow as fuck all).

All that being said I LOVE the tech for what it is... assistance. Makes long drives a lot less tiresome.
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      02-01-2020, 11:29 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
Self driving tech or aides as most of them are right now are here to stay. I love driving my C7, rowing through the gears, listening to the noise it makes... however I don't love it all the time. Sometimes I just need to get from point a to point b with the least amount of stress from all the assholes on the road.

I got a 2020 Corolla to drive around town and what not since I don't like to take out the C7 all the time, I don't much care for driving the truck in town and the gf doesn't like driving either. Anyways we had one as a rental out in CA earlier in the year and I found it to be pretty nice for what it is. It has lane keep assist and adaptive cruise control. For a sub $20k car I found the features to be fantastic. Made highway driving sooo much less exhausting. You may not consciously notice it but making all those tiny adjustments on the highway wears on you on long drives.

Anyways picked up a comma.ai device for the car around xmas time. That thing is a total game changer. Once I'm on the highway it can pretty much take over until I get off in Miami almost an hour later. Rarely have I had to intervene. Is it perfect? Hell no. That's why I'm always as attentive as if I was driving myself. It does have driver monitoring so if you look away, fall asleep etc it will disengage. THAT is the biggest issue I think. People thinking this stuff is flawless and they can take a nap or eat shit on their phone because the car is "driving itself". I think we are quite a ways away from that regardless of what Elon Musk says (have you seen the videos of cars being summed? They are dumb and slow as fuck all).

All that being said I LOVE the tech for what it is... assistance. Makes long drives a lot less tiresome.
So this!. No doubt it makes life easier, my problem is the idiots that don't pay attention. The fact that they have to put warnings on hair dryers to not be used in the bathtub or shower is why driver assist scares the shit out of me.
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      02-01-2020, 11:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So this!. No doubt it makes life easier, my problem is the idiots that don't pay attention. The fact that they have to put warnings on hair dryers to not be used in the bathtub or shower is why driver assist scares the shit out of me.
Yeah but that's a slippery slope. People are idiots. Now did the tech cause that idiot to be on his phone and drift out of his lane and almost take me out? Or did the tech save me from the idiot who was going to be on his phone regardless and if not for lane keep intervening would have taken me out?

It would be interesting to see data on how many accidents this type of tech
Unfortunately in order to get to fully 100% safe self driving (which I think will happen, eventually) we have to go through this muddy phase.
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      02-01-2020, 11:39 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So lets review, "features" never get misused......oh wait....Woman crashed motorhome using cruise control while making cup of tea

https://www.suffolkgazette.com/news/motorhome-crash/

This is why there is instructions on hair dryers that tell you not to use them in the bathtub.....people are too stupid to live.
Are you insinuating that because some people are irresponsible that we shouldn't try to improve our lives with technology? To me that is a really backwards way of thinking.
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      02-01-2020, 11:47 AM   #34
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Are you insinuating that because some people are irresponsible that we shouldn't try to improve our lives with technology? To me that is a really backwards way of thinking.
I am saying that some people are too stupid and some technology gets missed used by those stupid people. The problem is that if they use a hair dryer in the bathtub then the herd get's thinned so what, but if they take a nap in their self driving car then innocent folks are put at risk. The technology isn't good enough yet for and that creates the problem that concerns me and it should concern you too.

Maybe tech shouldn't be released until it is completely safe and reliable.
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      02-01-2020, 11:52 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
I am saying that some people are too stupid and some technology gets missed used by those stupid people. The problem is that if they use a hair dryer in the bathtub then the herd get's thinned so what, but if they take a nap in their self driving car then innocent folks are put at risk. The technology isn't good enough yet for and that creates the problem that concerns me and it should concern you too.
The technology is good enough for responsible people, the technology will never be good enough for irresponsible people. All documentation specifically says to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, anything else is irresponsible.
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      02-01-2020, 11:57 AM   #36
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The technology is good enough for responsible people, the technology will never be good enough for irresponsible people. All documentation specifically says to keep your hands on the wheel and eyes on the road, anything else is irresponsible.
I think you just made my point.
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      02-01-2020, 12:17 PM   #37
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I think you just made my point.
From what I gather, your point is that we shouldn't have the technology because of irresponsible people. But with that mindset, we shouldn't have any technology in cars because of irresponsible people.

People take advantage of nav screens, rear cameras, blind spot assist, cruise control, etc... So why is this any different?

And if we use that mindset outside of cars, we might as well live in the stone age again.
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      02-01-2020, 02:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
I am saying that some people are too stupid and some technology gets missed used by those stupid people. The problem is that if they use a hair dryer in the bathtub then the herd get's thinned so what, but if they take a nap in their self driving car then innocent folks are put at risk. The technology isn't good enough yet for and that creates the problem that concerns me and it should concern you too.

Maybe tech shouldn't be released until it is completely safe and reliable.
How do you know it's completely safe and reliable until you put it in the hands of morons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
The problem is that if they use a hair dryer in the bathtub then the herd get's thinned so what, but if they take a nap in their self driving car then innocent folks are put at risk.
This logic would lead to banning all kinds of stuff... alcohol... guns.... cellphones... cars...
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      02-01-2020, 04:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
From what I gather, your point is that we shouldn't have the technology because of irresponsible people. But with that mindset, we shouldn't have any technology in cars because of irresponsible people.

People take advantage of nav screens, rear cameras, blind spot assist, cruise control, etc... So why is this any different?

And if we use that mindset outside of cars, we might as well live in the stone age again.
no, my point is that until the tech is completely sorted out then it shouldn't be out on the road.
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      02-01-2020, 05:34 PM   #40
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no, my point is that until the tech is completely sorted out then it shouldn't be out on the road.
The problem is, that for you to feel that it's completely sorted out, the car will have to drive itself from point a to point b with 100 percent accuracy. But the current technology isn't supposed to fully drive you from point a to point b, it's to help you in certain situations, and for that purpose, it is sorted enough to be on the road.
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      02-01-2020, 05:35 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
How do you know it's completely safe and reliable until you put it in the hands of morons?



This logic would lead to banning all kinds of stuff... alcohol... guns.... cellphones... cars...
or, from where I sit logic would dictate that we don't rush to a broken model.
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      02-01-2020, 05:36 PM   #42
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The problem is, that for you to feel that it's completely sorted out, the car will have to drive itself from point a to point b with 100 percent accuracy. But the current technology isn't supposed to fully drive you from point a to point b, it's to help you in certain situations, and for that purpose, it is sorted enough to be on the road.

So please explain to me how that's a bad thing please. Did you see the video of how the current autonomous vehicles are tricked with simple projected images....one of which was a speed limit sigh of 125 MPH and the "smart car" started speeding up. So there is the "stupid" human occupying the car (because you can't say they are driving) and then there is the "errors" and then there is the, lets call it mischief. Because people will fuck with these things because thats just human nature.....hell, I'd stand in front of one at a crosswalk just for shits and giggles.
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      02-01-2020, 05:37 PM   #43
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So please explain to me how that's a bad thing please.
Your wanting something that doesn't currently exist, and refuse to allow something else that is ready for the market, because what you want isn't available yet. That makes no sense.
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      02-01-2020, 05:42 PM   #44
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Your wanting something that doesn't currently exist, and refuse to allow something that is ready for the market, because what you want isn't available yet. That makes no sense.
Because it's not actually "ready for the market".

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/06...-street-signs/
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