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      01-21-2020, 07:18 PM   #749
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
M shrine boys foaming at mouth waiting for their "bespoke" G80 M3 to come out to save grace, even though they won't won't like the front end as long as the ass end has an M (and the registration) that's all that "M"atters.
Honestly, reading your posts, you come out as the biggest "fanboi" here. I am not sure what you have at stake, but you sure are intense about the topic.
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      01-21-2020, 07:48 PM   #750
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In the year 2020, with high crash standards yielding heavy cars, the lighter 4 cylinder 330i with M-Sport package, M suspension, M brakes and M LSD is the lightest and best balanced and is really the closest to an old school true M. So both you M340i and M3 fellas have it wrong.
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      01-21-2020, 08:03 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by Yeru View Post
If not manufactured by BMW M GmbH (as illustrated on the inside door panel), strictly speaking, it's not an ///M.

Nothing wrong with the BMW AG Series cars either BTW; for their respective segments and class, they're usually pretty good cars.
Im out of this thread like 30 pages ago!!!!


But, since u brought me back in, ill drop some knowledge

https://www.bmw-m.com/en/index.html
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      01-21-2020, 09:12 PM   #752
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Originally Posted by cbertels View Post
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
M shrine boys foaming at mouth waiting for their "bespoke" G80 M3 to come out to save grace, even though they won't won't like the front end as long as the ass end has an M (and the registration) that's all that "M"atters.
Honestly, reading your posts, you come out as the biggest "fanboi" here. I am not sure what you have at stake, but you sure are intense about the topic.
+10,000%
Oh shitttt here comes the big bad ///M gang jumping on the single BMW advocate on this thread ✊
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      01-21-2020, 09:15 PM   #753
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I haven’t driven the new 340i, but the 235 I had was the worst BMW I’ve ever owned. I got out my lease more than 18 months early - yes, it was that bad.

It wasn’t all bad though, it pushed me out of the brand and into a 981 CS.

Since then, we’ve had two BMWs - an OG M2 (love the car) and an F80 ZCP (liked the car). The performance line might be great for others but it didn’t work for me.
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      01-21-2020, 09:26 PM   #754
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I haven't driven the new 340i, but the 235 I had was the worst BMW I've ever owned. I got out my lease more than 18 months early - yes, it was that bad.

It wasn't all bad though, it pushed me out of the brand and into a 981 CS.

Since then, we've had two BMWs - an OG M2 (love the car) and an F80 ZCP (liked the car). The performance line might be great for others but it didn't work for me.
The 235i had the tuned up N55 👎, it's not comparable to the B58 M340i. The M340i is more comparable to the M2 you have. Actually has more hp & tq than the OG M2.
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      01-21-2020, 09:36 PM   #755
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
I'm not comparing the two, I was pointing out the drastic difference between the two. OP was indicating that his F30 335i with the M Performance package was basically the same car and feel as the M340i just not assembled that way out of the factory. Not even close.
What? You wrote: “margin between your F30 PPK is far greater to the M340i, than the slim margin between M340i and the F80 M3.” That’s the textbook example of a comparison. This post you write “I was pointing out the drastic difference between the two”. Basically confirming a comparison. Moving on...

To everyone else: As someone who had a F30 then had a long term loaner M340i (long story) they don’t seem all that dissimilar to me. The diff is probably the biggest separator to me. Will say this though, the G20 is definitely an improvement over the F30 in my opinion. Furthermore, previous to the M2 I had a M235i. The 228i is closer to the M235i than the M235i is to the M2. Not to say any of these are bad cars, far from it. At the end of the day, get what makes you happy. But if you think the M performance cars are the full M experience (whatever that’s worth these days) then I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not trying what the full “M”s have to offer. If you tried both and still like the M performance better; I won’t criticize that decision. It’s a matter of personal preference, value, etc. At the end of the day, these are all fantastic cars especially when compared to some of the competition from other brands.
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      01-21-2020, 10:26 PM   #756
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
I don't know why you keep comparing your 335i M Performance package car with an M340i, it's a night and day difference. Get it through you thick head or go drive one yourself before you start theorizing.

As explained many times and by others as well, the margin between your F30 PPK is far greater to the M340i, than the slim margin between M340i and the F80 M3.
I did drive the M340i and ix G20
It has nothing to do with an M.
Stop convincing yourself that it is made by an M division.
Merc did it first with the c43, Bimmer is late to the game.

They have done the MP before and it was closER to the previous gen of M3/4 and then they released the current gen and adios.
Happened with the F30 335i MPerformance vs e92 M, then an F80 came out.
G80 will be again light years ahead.

Make sure you put the “M” badge (or as BMW says “small M badge”) all over your MMMM340
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      01-21-2020, 10:31 PM   #757
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Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
What? You wrote: “margin between your F30 PPK is far greater to the M340i, than the slim margin between M340i and the F80 M3.” That’s the textbook example of a comparison. This post you write “I was pointing out the drastic difference between the two”. Basically confirming a comparison. Moving on...

To everyone else: As someone who had a F30 then had a long term loaner M340i (long story) they don’t seem all that dissimilar to me. The diff is probably the biggest separator to me. Will say this though, the G20 is definitely an improvement over the F30 in my opinion. Furthermore, previous to the M2 I had a M235i. The 228i is closer to the M235i than the M235i is to the M2. Not to say any of these are bad cars, far from it. At the end of the day, get what makes you happy. But if you think the M performance cars are the full M experience (whatever that’s worth these days) then I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not trying what the full “M”s have to offer. If you tried both and still like the M performance better; I won’t criticize that decision. It’s a matter of personal preference, value, etc. At the end of the day, these are all fantastic cars especially when compared to some of the competition from other brands.
He can fool himself that the M340 is “close” to an F80.
That’s OK
We all did that at one point.

Also, I never compared the 335i MP and M340 or for that matter the e90 335 and F30 335. With every generation, the BMW evolves to the next level. The bad thing is that some competition is evolving faster...
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      01-21-2020, 10:45 PM   #758
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
I'm not comparing the two, I was pointing out the drastic difference between the two. OP was indicating that his F30 335i with the M Performance package was basically the same car and feel as the M340i just not assembled that way out of the factory. Not even close.
What? You wrote: "margin between your F30 PPK is far greater to the M340i, than the slim margin between M340i and the F80 M3." That's the textbook example of a comparison. This post you write "I was pointing out the drastic difference between the two". Basically confirming a comparison. Moving on...

To everyone else: As someone who had a F30 then had a long term loaner M340i (long story) they don't seem all that dissimilar to me. The diff is probably the biggest separator to me. Will say this though, the G20 is definitely an improvement over the F30 in my opinion. Furthermore, previous to the M2 I had a M235i. The 228i is closer to the M235i than the M235i is to the M2. Not to say any of these are bad cars, far from it. At the end of the day, get what makes you happy. But if you think the M performance cars are the full M experience (whatever that's worth these days) then I think you are doing yourself a disservice by not trying what the full "M"s have to offer. If you tried both and still like the M performance better; I won't criticize that decision. It's a matter of personal preference, value, etc. At the end of the day, these are all fantastic cars especially when compared to some of the competition from other brands.
Apologies I think you misunderstood the premise, I was pointing out the discrepancies. There is actually no direct comparison; an M is an M and the flagship, no one questions that as stated several times. However if there is a comparison between the "non-M's" in question it's not close IMO. As you stated the M340i is quite worthy with a differential which makes a huge difference in any car. Is it worthy of the BMW M badge? To ///M purists no because of what the essence and nostalgia of what M is, to me and more importantly BMW GmbH believe yes because it has all the performance checkmarks (to be an M-lite) that were lacking in a non-M ✅.
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      01-21-2020, 11:30 PM   #759
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Apologies I think you misunderstood the premise, I was pointing out the discrepancies. There is actually no direct comparison; an M is an M and the flagship, no one questions that as stated several times. However if there is a comparison between the "non-M's" in question it's not close IMO. As you stated the M340i is quite worthy with a differential which makes a huge difference in any car. Is it worthy of the BMW M badge? To ///M purists no because of what the essence and nostalgia of what M is, to me and more importantly BMW GmbH believe yes because it has all the performance checkmarks (to be an M-lite) that were lacking in a non-M ✅.
Got it, I'm now understanding what you're saying. Fair point for sure.
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      01-22-2020, 12:06 AM   #760
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Originally Posted by bkfastwagon View Post
I have both (e90 M3 and X3 M40i) and really surprised by the number of people (friends and strangers) who perceive X3 as a "real M" car. Most non-enthusiasts don't know the distinction and there are enough M logos on m40i X3 to confuse them. I personally find it annoying as I have to explain to them each time that there's actually a real X3M. This is probably what BMW intended and working brilliantly
Exactly!! I jumped in on this thread not to puff my chest because I drive a bad azz M3 CS. In fact... my next car could very well be a tuned and lowered M340 x drive.. To me... this thread is a marketing debate. And very good debate at that. My position stands. M should be reserved for top performers only. Not whored across the entire line.
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      01-22-2020, 12:24 AM   #761
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Hahahaha you had me until... "smells different" and you obviously haven't heard an M340i rip with natural exhaust burbles, sounds better than a S55 IMO.

It makes you happy to see the M title on the registration..? Really?? Do you have it framed?
E46 M3 has S54, i didnt say anything about S55..
if you dont agree.. just tell its enough, it can be.. cause clearly trying to make some jokes doesnt make you a genius anyway nicky dj..
That's fine, I appreciate your nostalgic affinity to the E46 M3, however the M340i blows it away in any performance aspect which is what M stands for "performance". The premise of this thread is the M340i worthy? You say no because of essence, I say yes because of its performance.
I say no not worthy of "M" logo because true M car has unique and different suspension and chassis settings , engine tuning, steering, M-diff, wheels and tires, better heat management, CFRP bits, interior, and Im probably missing a few. It's a factory engineered car by the BMW M division engineers and drivers.

The gap might be smaller now yes, but a real M car will whip up on a non M car on a road track and this is what M has always stood for. The M340 is a great car but this thread (in my mind) is a "M"arketing debate not a performance debate.
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      01-22-2020, 01:26 AM   #762
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
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Originally Posted by nicky dj View Post
Hahahaha you had me until... "smells different" and you obviously haven't heard an M340i rip with natural exhaust burbles, sounds better than a S55 IMO.

It makes you happy to see the M title on the registration..? Really?? Do you have it framed?
E46 M3 has S54, i didnt say anything about S55..
if you dont agree.. just tell its enough, it can be.. cause clearly trying to make some jokes doesnt make you a genius anyway nicky dj..
That's fine, I appreciate your nostalgic affinity to the E46 M3, however the M340i blows it away in any performance aspect which is what M stands for "performance". The premise of this thread is the M340i worthy? You say no because of essence, I say yes because of its performance.
I say no not worthy of "M" logo because true M car has unique and different suspension and chassis settings , engine tuning, steering, M-diff, wheels and tires, better heat management, CFRP bits, interior, and Im probably missing a few. It's a factory engineered car by the BMW M division engineers and drivers.

The gap might be smaller now yes, but a real M car will whip up on a non M car on a road track and this is what M has always stood for. The M340 is a great car but this thread (in my mind) is a "M"arketing debate not a performance debate.
I'd argue no longer unique with the core components of an M, such as a closed deck block, air-to-water intercooler and mechanical water pump (key cooling components), and a locking differential... all lacking in any E90, F30, etc. It also has performance brake calipers, and stiffer track rated suspension... in which most M aficionados upgrade those variable parts anyways. Its not like with an M you're getting a Porsche GT3 or a McLaren out of the box and saying "well I can't do anything or it's moot to upgrade this car anyways..."

As we are constantly repeating ourselves. To finally end this thread and debate: you and I are both sitting in the BMW Welt boardroom over in Munich. Harald Krueger and Markus Flasch look over to us and say "Gentlemen, we need a car name or a moniker for the capable G20 B58 to compete with our chief rivals Mercedes' C43 and Audi's S division" ...to that you say what?
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      01-22-2020, 01:30 AM   #763
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M should be reserved for top performers only. Not whored across the entire line.
Indeed.
But decades of having M badged cars as aspirational halo models has given the letter a $$$ value.....And now BMW have decided to fully cash in on the M badge.
It likely makes good economic sense to litter the range with M badged cars even at the expense of losing some shine off the halo.
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      01-22-2020, 02:57 AM   #764
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You can buy an m performance spoiler, an AMG baseball cap and an S Line key fob.

On a forum where members rarely keep the car as it left the factory, how can the use of branding be ridiculed?

Whether the manufacturer, you, or others choose to add products to their car is absolutely no big deal.
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      01-22-2020, 06:30 AM   #765
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Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
But decades of having M badged cars as aspirational halo models has given the letter a $$$ value.....And now BMW have decided to fully cash in on the M badge.
It likely makes good economic sense to litter the range with M badged cars even at the expense of losing some shine off the halo.
Agree, makes good economic sense...

I wonder how many on here, who hold the M-car moniker as 'sacred', if they had control of the Halo Effect of the M-brand, wouldn't exploit it.

I suggest it would be a totally different flow of comments.
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      01-22-2020, 07:08 AM   #766
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
they've already diluted the M brand anyway.

first it was turbos
then awd SUVs
Then M cars without an S motor (M2)
then no manual option (M5, M3cs)
now you dont even get a DCT option

honestly wouldn't be suprised if they come out with an M2 convertible or X7M in a few years.
Man, didnt it show up some time ago that the HALO car for M was going to be a standalone X8????
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      01-22-2020, 08:50 AM   #767
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A funny little anecdote: Just last night at the gym, a friend of a friend told me he just picked up a left over 2018 "Full Alpina edition M5" from the local dealer (same dealership I bought my M2 from). So I texted my CA to confirm if the Alpina B5 ever came to the US for the G30 gen (it didn't), or whether or not they just recently sold any M5s). He confirmed for me no B5 in the US and that they haven't sold any M5s recently; let alone 2018 leftovers... what the guy actually picked up was an Alpine White M550.
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      01-22-2020, 09:46 AM   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPichardo View Post
Going forward, today's M Performance models will be known as M cars slotting just below the single digit M models.

So for the 3 Series derived models, for example, all the below are now simply "M cars":

M340i
M3
M3 Competition
M3 CS
It's the world we live in today, trying to make those less fortunate feel equally special.

I'm joking by the way but I do cringe when I hear someone refer to a 130 as an M130 etc.

Call it what you like but to me they'll always be a 130i or a 130 M Sport and the same goes for the rest, the 340 included.

And if you really want to make me lol tell they're as quick as an M3.
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      01-22-2020, 09:57 AM   #769
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I'd argue no longer unique with the core components of an M, such as a closed deck block, air-to-water intercooler and mechanical water pump (key cooling components), and a locking differential... all lacking in any E90, F30, etc. It also has performance brake calipers, and stiffer track rated suspension... in which most M aficionados upgrade those variable parts anyways. Its not like with an M you're getting a Porsche GT3 or a McLaren out of the box and saying "well I can't do anything or it's moot to upgrade this car anyways..."

As we are constantly repeating ourselves. To finally end this thread and debate: you and I are both sitting in the BMW Welt boardroom over in Munich. Harald Krueger and Markus Flasch look over to us and say "Gentlemen, we need a car name or a moniker for the capable G20 B58 to compete with our chief rivals Mercedes' C43 and Audi's S division" ...to that you say what?
Is the Audi S line the "lite" RS version? It definitely has bits and pieces.
Is the C43 AMG the "lite" version of the AMG (C63, etc...)
All marketing stuff. THe poster above clearly laid out what makes M an M -- unique chasis setup (F80 vs F30, G80 vs G20...), different ENGINE (B58 vs S58 that is across G8x lines with a different tune options), same calipers, different brakes, M-differential, M-transmission (manual and Auto, both different from G20), and much more.
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      01-22-2020, 09:59 AM   #770
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A funny little anecdote: Just last night at the gym, a friend of a friend told me he just picked up a left over 2018 "Full Alpina edition M5" from the local dealer (same dealership I bought my M2 from). So I texted my CA to confirm if the Alpina B5 ever came to the US for the G30 gen (it didn't), or whether or not they just recently sold any M5s). He confirmed for me no B5 in the US and that they haven't sold any M5s recently; let alone 2018 leftovers... what the guy actually picked up was an Alpine White M550.
It is working.
They probably charged him the M-tax
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