[Ras550]

Why are we comparing the base 718 with the higher end Z4?

I'd compare the 718 with the 30i and the 718S to the M40i to get a true apples to apples compariosn

[Brake_Late]

It's certainly a unique looking car.
I liked it actually.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Will we ever get a small little Z3 or 1st gen Z4 sized car again?

This thing is huge.

there was mention of a Z2 a few years back.. but then they didn't even plan on making a new Z4 for a long while..

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Ras550

Why are we comparing the base 718 with the higher end Z4?

I'd compare the 718 with the 30i and the 718S to the M40i to get a true apples to apples compariosn

because Porsche prices are so **sky high...**



XXXXXXX------------------ vs Z4 30i $49.7K
718 Boxster $59.0K vs Z4 M40i $63.7K
718 Boxster S $71.4K vs ----------------- XXXX------------------
718 Boxster GTS $82.8K vs ----------------XXXXX----------------


the base price of the 718 boxster is more in line with the Z4 m40

[M4 GTS]

82K for GTS 4 banger! No way

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by vasi_M3

Really a skewed comparison and unnecessary. Aside from being sporty spyders these cars are made with two completely different recipes...it's like a running shoe vs a sporty loafer, both great when used purposefully. I too prefer a manual in these "smaller" form factor cars, shame that the demand isn't there any more but I would still offer it at a cost to the customer.

Georg Kacher is a pretty respected journalist so if you want an opinion that matches what you want to hear, try all of the American YouTube; there'll be plenty of Z4 slagging-off there!

The cost will be borne by customers outside the US to keep your prices down, so no thanks. There'll be no manuals any more, except in the M (and even then...)

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Ras550

Why are we comparing the base 718 with the higher end Z4?

I'd compare the 718 with the 30i and the 718S to the M40i to get a true apples to apples compariosn

We aren't, he is, and that's because the prices are so close. For the S, he needs over £55,000 and that's before you add the fruit, which is sphincter-tighteningly expensive.

[Ras550]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

We aren't, he is, and that's because the prices are so close. For the S, he needs over £55,000 and that's before you add the fruit, which is sphincter-tighteningly expensive.

Understood that he is :-) I also saw his logic, but to me that's flawed. I think comparisons should always be like for like based on the car's capabilities. Otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Very interesting write up. As a 718 Boxster owner I can't wait to test drive the new Z4 both 30i and M40i to compare to my car. BMW definitely wins when it comes to everyday livability, speed, and engine (noise and feel), but the lack of a manual really is a disappointment and they should at least consider making it a factory order option so its at least available in some way because I'm sure it'd be an absolute joy to drive with one.

As another 718 owner, I want to try out the m40i. Love the base 718 so much, I am considering upgrading to the GTS.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Ras550

Understood that he is :-) I also saw his logic, but to me that's flawed. I think comparisons should always be like for like based on the car's capabilities. Otherwise you are comparing apples and oranges.

That's fine, but ignores the value question. It is perfectly OK to compare an apple to a different kind of apple (both are 2-seat RWD sports cars with broadly similar performance, not dissimilar prices and an abundance of tech; they're hardly chalk and cheese) if the apples each offer something different. If you insist on comparing "the bottom of the range" cars regardless of price range, then you need to put a 718 up against the actual bottom-of-the-range Z4, which is the 20i, and that would be fairly pointless given the great disparities in price, performance and - surely - expectations.

[Ras550]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

That's fine, but ignores the value question. It is perfectly OK to compare an apple to a different kind of apple (both are 2-seat RWD sports cars with broadly similar performance, not dissimilar prices and an abundance of tech; they're hardly chalk and cheese) if the apples each offer something different. If you insist on comparing "the bottom of the range" cars regardless of price range, then you need to put a 718 up against the actual bottom-of-the-range Z4, which is the 20i, and that would be fairly pointless given the great disparities in price, performance and - surely - expectations.

If you look at solely the price (which most reviews tend to do), then you are always comparing apples to oranges.

Case in point: I see so many comparisons of a Cayman vs 1M/M2 because they are closer in price. To me, an M2 is a 4 door sport coupe and it really should be compared with a base 911 - nearly identical engine specs and both are 4 doors. I'd like to see a comparo of a M2C with a 911.

And when you compare two truly similar cars like the M2 and 911, it becomes clear that one is by far the better value - virtually identical specs at half the price. That's the kind of comparison that would make sense to me.

[Racer20]

I also suspect the Z4 will have a decent real world price advantage. I can never seem to spec out a 718 that I'm happy with for less than 90K. Even if the starting price is similar, I've never found the need to add that many options to a BMW. I'd be surprised if I couldn't find a Z4 spec that makes me happy for $70-72k

[vasi_M3]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

Georg Kacher is a pretty respected journalist so if you want an opinion that matches what you want to hear, try all of the American YouTube; there'll be plenty of Z4 slagging-off there!

The cost will be borne by customers outside the US to keep your prices down, so no thanks. There'll be no manuals any more, except in the M (and even then...)

I think your blinded by your own ignorance and bias, which is probably why your comments don't make much sense. Either way the Boxter/Cayman will always be a better platform than the Z4, unless BMW goes mid engine, and that's all you need to know...really

[Fear-Mongrel]

I can appreciate a little hyperbole from time to time, and I'm a BMW owner so I've had some of the Kool-Aid, but isn't it a little premature to be referring to the B58 as "legendary"? It's only 3 years old, so there is exactly zero post-warranty reliability data. Does "sounds good + fast + hasn't eaten itself within 3 years" now = legendary?

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by Ras550

If you look at solely the price (which most reviews tend to do), then you are always comparing apples to oranges.

Case in point: I see so many comparisons of a Cayman vs 1M/M2 because they are closer in price. To me, an M2 is a 4 door sport coupe and it really should be compared with a base 911 - nearly identical engine specs and both are 4 doors. I'd like to see a comparo of a M2C with a 911.

And when you compare two truly similar cars like the M2 and 911, it becomes clear that one is by far the better value - virtually identical specs at half the price. That's the kind of comparison that would make sense to me.

I see your point and agree with the M2 and 911 example. It's really how Genesis gets compared to BMW and I suppose Lexus?


However, which cars should we compare the Z4 to? AMG GT Roadster? SLC? MX-5? I think that comparing the Z4 to a 718 is ok and well within the parameters of 'similar' cars?

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

It's certainly a unique looking car.
I liked it actually.

Did you make these pictures or downloaded them somewhere? Just curious, because it looks like the config I will most likely go with.

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by CeEl

Did you make these pictures or downloaded them somewhere? Just curious, because it looks like the config I will most likely go with.

I took them in person with my iPhone

It's on loan from BMW corporate to the dealer ...

It's exactly the same car / color as seen on instagram posted yesterday by bmwm

Seen Here:

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

I took them in person with my iPhone

It's on loan from BMW corporate to the dealer ...

It's exactly the same car / color as seen on instagram posted yesterday by bmwm

Seen Here:

Thanks! I wished my dealer would get loans like that … hoping they will show that configuration at the Chicago Autoshow in February.

[stevenvillatoro]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

It's certainly a unique looking car.
I liked it actually.

You saw the Z4 in person, and that's your full review??

[Brake_Late]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

You saw the Z4 in person, and that's your full review??

No review ... just a view

https://g29.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1569865

[Ras550]

Originally Posted by CeEl

I see your point and agree with the M2 and 911 example. It's really how Genesis gets compared to BMW and I suppose Lexus?


However, which cars should we compare the Z4 to? AMG GT Roadster? SLC? MX-5? I think that comparing the Z4 to a 718 is ok and well within the parameters of 'similar' cars?

Agreed z4 is similar enough to 718, just some differences in character.

My point was that we should compare like trims so 718 to 30i and 718S to M40i (and 718 GT4 to z4M if they ever make one).

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by Ras550

Agreed z4 is similar enough to 718, just some differences in character.

My point was that we should compare like trims so 718 to 30i and 718S to M40i (and 718 GT4 to z4M if they ever make one).

Got it, agreed! I am very surprised that they even did the Cayman / M40i comparison before launch to be honest. Even though using a Boxster would have been better of course.