[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

The phones suck vs galaxy.

This

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

I see, but with bigger battery pack you also get better performance, which is similar what everybody else are doing.

Yes, better than base model but still slower than a basic 328i. And that's 0-60 which is where it's supposed to be fastest and its $10k more than the 328i. $10k buys a lot of gas. Then if it's slower in 0-60, must be a dog in the quarter or at speed on the highway.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

What are you talking about? Base price is 35K excluding any incentives. The first batch will be well optioned models but you shouldn't worry about that as those will be delivered to Tesla employees, SpaceX employees, current Tesla owners and other non general public members.

I'm talking about the estimated advertised price was $35,000 and I think that price drove a lot of the $1,000 production purchase slots. Had Tesla said in March that the introductory price was going to be $49,000 I'd bet it would have affected the number of people who signed up.

[Sedoy]

I would wait until magazines actually review Model 3, it might be faster than what's listed. In addition, Tesla can send updates to improve acceleration.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Yes, better than base model but still slower than a basic 328i. And that's 0-60 which is where it's supposed to be fastest and its $10k more than the 328i. $10k buys a lot of gas. Then if it's slower in 0-60, must be a dog in the quarter or at speed on the highway.

[Sedoy]

Never seen anybody advertise for the "estimated average price" or other prices or packages, everybody list lowest MSRP and show the most loaded version. And general public will receive basic Model 3 for $35,000. The $49K version will be gone before they start actual deliveries.
Remember this:

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm talking about the estimated advertised price was $35,000 and I think that price drove a lot of the $1,000 production purchase slots. Had Tesla said in March that the introductory price was going to be $49,000 I'd bet it would have affected the number of people who signed up.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Anyhow, it looks like Tesla did their homework here and delivered a solid and well thought out product overall. The interior is garbage from both a design and quality standpoint, but it won't matter to the Tesla cultists and Elon knows that. He had to cut corners somewhere, this thing will do very well barring some type of major quality problem. I suspect build quality issues will be abound but the Tesla geeks will overlook that cause having an automotive iPhone is of greater importance to them.

I think this is spot on. If I were in mkt for this My gripe would be that they didnt add a front dash nor a heads up display, poor in a car that will be optioned into the 50s and prob even 60s. I cant imagine having to look right to see my traveling speed. Elon claims with self driving its not an issue but reality is self driving will not be close too 100% of driving and it costs 8k for the option. My thought is they purposely cut some corners on the car and gave it a cheap interior to either sell more self drive packages or keep sales of model S afloat- its the tesla equivalent of the porsche cayman being detuned to lift up 911.

[Red Bread]

Unreasonable arguments sure come out of the woodwork when people try to bash Tesla. Of course the launch model isn't the base base base model. No brand ever launches the stripper as the first deliveries.

[Fundguy1]

I think they cut the corners on the interior, etc and jacked up the options prices to get the car to the promised $35k knowing that everyone would spend way more to get the options getting the average price where they need it at $50k.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

I would wait until magazines actually review Model 3, it might be faster than what's listed. In addition, Tesla can send updates to improve acceleration.

The current acceleration is 0-60 In 5.6. With the expensive battery option its 5.1. What's the point of an update increasing speed. It has to come from somewhere it comes from eating up a ton of range to overjuuce the motors. Are the motors capable of this sustainably? They cut corners everywhere else.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Never seen anybody advertise for the "estimated average price" or other prices or packages, everybody list lowest MSRP and show the most loaded version. And general public will receive basic Model 3 for $35,000. The $49K version will be gone before they start actual deliveries.
Remember this:

The difference here is the battery pack is needed to even make it feasible range wise, and close speed wise. That starts at $44k. Optioned out you're at $58,000.

[hellrotm]

It isn't attractive. Would never own one without autopilot feature, so $35k isn't happening.

Doesn't BMW have an all electric 3er coming with 250mile range?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Never seen anybody advertise for the "estimated average price" or other prices or packages, everybody list lowest MSRP and show the most loaded version. And general public will receive basic Model 3 for $35,000. The $49K version will be gone before they start actual deliveries.
Remember this:

Chevrolet did.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by zer0cool

I think the interior is good. People have different tastes and my tastes are diverse. Model 3 interior is like stuff you find in MOMA, modern/minimalist. That is a type of beauty. I can enjoy both stuff found in the Uffizi and stuff found in MOMA.

Quality is definitely a concern. I expect there to be lots of problems in the first few months; hopefully not as many as Model X.

I understand your viewpoint but have to respectfully disagree. Audi and recent Volvo interiors are what I'd define as "minimalist" and "modern." The Model 3's is just plain bad.

I used to sell Teslas when I was in undergrad and everybody who complained about the interior never ended up putting in a reservation. I wonder how potential customers in this price bracket will fare in that regard. My guess is that people will be so enamored with the tech and "coolness" of driving something electric that they won't care about the significant interior shortcomings.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

It isn't attractive. Would never own one without autopilot feature, so $35k isn't happening.

Doesn't BMW have an all electric 3er coming with 250mile range?

Thats the rumor. Wonder if bmw is updating their requirements after seeing the model 3 offering.

[zer0cool]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I understand your viewpoint but have to respectfully disagree. Audi and recent Volvo interiors are what I'd define as "minimalist" and "modern." The Model 3's is just plain bad.

I used to sell Teslas when I was in undergrad and everybody who complained about the interior never ended up putting in a reservation. I wonder how potential customers in this price bracket will fare in that regard. My guess is that people will be so enamored with the tech and "coolness" of driving something electric that they won't care about the significant interior shortcomings.

If someone doesn't actually like the interior or just hate it, then makes sense they won't buy the car. I think it's like Lexus's front end. Some people absolutely hate it but others love it. Just a matter of personal taste. It's like Donald Trump, some love him but others hate him.

I don't think Audis are minimalist at all. They are definitely modern, but quite luxurious, nicer than BMW interior for sure. Pretty much has all the normal buttons compared to most similar cars.

The Model 3 interior is truly minimalist. There's like basically nothing there except a screen. At a glance, I like the very modern look. Will definitely want to sit inside to see if it feels cheap or not.

I really like Model S interior. Although it's not as nice or luxurious as say a new Audi or Porsche but it's highly modern, techy, and very functional. Moreover Tesla's UI/OS is by far the best of all cars.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Chevrolet did.

Sure, but the Bolt is a fwd EV with more range than its cheaper competition and really nothing like an i3.

The rwd Model 3 has pretty established competition in the 3er, C Class, A4/S4 and a bunch of other competitors that offer an entry level four and an upgraded six. This isn't any different than the new X3 being launched as the M40i version and the price leaders following later.

[Mingwan]

Both Volvo/Audi(?) and Model 3 interiors could be considered to have minimalist interiors. Minimalism can cover a wide spectrum. I think both interiors are expressions of minimalism, but on different parts of the spectrum. I just think one executes it better than the other within that spectrum. Minimalism is not merely about the absence of style, or design for its own sake.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Sure, but the Bolt is a fwd EV with more range than its cheaper competition and really nothing like an i3.

The rwd Model 3 has pretty established competition in the 3er, C Class, A4/S4 and a bunch of other competitors that offer an entry level four and an upgraded six. This isn't any different than the new X3 being launched as the M40i version and the price leaders following later.

Regardless of the format between the Bolt and Model 3, Chevrolet released the Bolt in both the LT trim at $37K, and Premiere trim at $42K upon the car's introduction; I'm not sure why there is and argument about what I stated. Most all manufacturers release all trim levels at the same time. The 3-Series has always been released that way. Not sure why you think I'm bashing Tesla. None of the Model 3's roll out scheme was detailed at the time Musk did the introduction back in March 2016 as I recall. I am impressed that the car actually came out at the time promised, that's a first for Tesla.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

To me, soul died when turbos and flat torque curves arrived. They're fast, but all motors feel the same now. I'm fine with an EV as a daily and a 993 or F430 for having fun.

100% agree with this. Plus, almost every car is only offered with an automatic transmission that is programmed for fuel efficiency; they suck to drive IMO. EVs with single speed trans and electric torque are much better to drive.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

100% agree with this. Plus, almost every car is only offered with an automatic transmission that is programmed for fuel efficiency; they suck to drive IMO. EVs with single speed trans and electric torque are much better to drive.

This is why I prefer manual, rwd, with naturally aspirated power plants. I'm shopping for a 2014 m5 at the moment and torn between dct and manual. Normally I'd just do manual without blinking but I hear the m5 was set up for dct and the manual is "clunky" as a result from several respected manual loving professional critics.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I understand your viewpoint but have to respectfully disagree. Audi and recent Volvo interiors are what I'd define as "minimalist" and "modern." The Model 3's is just plain bad.

I used to sell Teslas when I was in undergrad and everybody who complained about the interior never ended up putting in a reservation. I wonder how potential customers in this price bracket will fare in that regard. My guess is that people will be so enamored with the tech and "coolness" of driving something electric that they won't care about the significant interior shortcomings.

I went to Tesla's website this morning and I can't find any pics of the interior. On line there are a few. We can call it minimalist, but in reality it is just cost cutting, plain and simple (pun intended). The Model S interior is at least integrated with the tablet screen and has gauges. The Model 3 just has a tablet mounted to the dashboard. Audi's gauges are now simulated on screen inside a gauge pod; Tesla could have followed suit. I'm interested in how the Model 3 screen stands up to glare of the sun and street lights and the level of dimming possible. I'll wait until I can see a Model 3 in the flesh before I'll decide to buy one. The E90 has a few more years left in it.

The speedometer from a 1968 Ford Country Squire station wagon would have been a nice touch.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Anyhow, it looks like Tesla did their homework here and delivered a solid and well thought out product overall. The interior is garbage from both a design and quality standpoint, but it won't matter to the Tesla cultists and Elon knows that. He had to cut corners somewhere, this thing will do very well barring some type of major quality problem. I suspect build quality issues will be abound but the Tesla geeks will overlook that cause having an automotive iPhone is of greater importance to them.

Spot on. I think it's a great EV - range is fine, the standard-battery version has the weight of a 3-series and perhaps handles better? (quote from an EV reviewer at Motor Trend):

What’s blanching, though, is the car’s ride and handling. If anybody was expecting a typical boring electric sedan here, nope. The ride is Alfa Giulia (maybe even Quadrifoglio)–firm, and quickly, I’m carving Stunt Road like a Sochi Olympics giant slalomer, micrometering my swipes at the apexes. I glance at Franz—this OK? “Go for it,” he nods. The Model 3 is so unexpected scalpel-like, I’m sputtering for adjectives. The steering ratio is quick, the effort is light (for me), but there’s enough light tremble against your fingers to hear the cornering negotiations between Stunt Road and these 235/40R19 tires (Continental ProContact RX m+s’s). And to mention body roll is to have already said too much about it. Sure, that battery is low, way down under the floor. But unlike the aluminum Model S, the Tesla Model 3 is composed of steel, too, and this car’s glass ceiling can’t be helping the center of gravity’s height. Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous.

The outside has appealing style, and the minimalistic interior may be influential in the auto industry. However, the seating is relatively cheap looking. That desktop PC-like display, and lack of available features, even when fully optioned, is a big disappointment. These and other drawbacks should provide an opportunity for the competition.

The low cost of driving and maintenance should make for a very practical commuting, taxi or Uber car.

In California, that $35k becomes $25k for many buyers.