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      02-05-2021, 10:33 AM   #1
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Doug DeMuro "What is Going On with BMW's Weird Decisions Lately?"

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      02-05-2021, 11:53 AM   #2
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Tesla is a problem that all luxury brands are facing and I would say that BMW is better positioned than many other traditional ICE vehicle brands, especially the Japanese ones. Also a bit too much hysteria and overinterpretation going on with the "OK Boomer" tweet. It's just a tweet.

Overall, an interesting opinion, even though I disagree with his "BMW in panic" sentiment. BMW is obviously trying new things, and this may or may not work out for them, but they also continue achieving strong sales numbers with their traditional car lineups (and this worldwide).
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      02-05-2021, 12:14 PM   #3
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Not sure his comment about BMW being the second favourite German car, VW and MB are clearly out ahead. I think he's right, BMW seems a bit lost right now.
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      02-05-2021, 12:23 PM   #4
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BMW posted good sales in its last quarter report.
Better than the other German brands.
Like the above poster says, Tesla is intimidating to all brands. Not just BMW
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      02-05-2021, 12:42 PM   #5
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Cannabis is being sprinkled on their corporate lunches in Munich.
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      02-05-2021, 12:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Cannabis is being sprinkled on their corporate lunches in Munich.
More like meth. Cannabis may actually result in a better flow and more relaxed styling, not the Pep Boys, overdone styling BMW seems to be embracing.
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      02-05-2021, 12:56 PM   #7
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Another "expert" jumping on the train to get likes and subscriptions...
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      02-05-2021, 12:57 PM   #8
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Tesla is intimidating to all brands, however, of the luxury brands it seems that BMW is more vulnerable than others. The Model 3 was just the start with many BMW owners swapping their BMW for Tesla. With the introduction of the Y, that could go further to X BMW SUV owners or those cross-shopping the brand.

Interestingly, a little over a year ago, Bloomberg did a survey of Tesla Model 3 owners across the US. One of the parts of the survey discussed what vehicles were traded in. Of course, the Prius topped the list, but interestingly, the 3-series was the second most traded in vehicle on the survey. The next luxury car on that list was the Audi A4, which shared the number nine spot with the Mazda 3.

Tesla’s Model 3 Success Hits BMW the Hardest

I definitely agree with Doug, traditional luxury automakers from BMW, to MB or Audi, are losing desirability. While older clients may stick with the brand and have created loyal relationships, like Doug says the brands also have to appeal to newer and younger clients, as well as create a brand loyal relationship. Anyone can get new buyers, however getting them to stay is the tricky part. The advantage Tesla has is their experience is unlike any other. While a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi owner could get a similar experience to their car from the competitors of the three brands, the Tesla experience is unmatched, and not just because its an EV. Their customer satisfaction and loyalty is through the roof in numerous surveys even with the many negative aspects their brand has such as build quality and customer service, something that would usually prevent a brand from sales.

There was a time when Cadillac was the standard for luxury cars, they were on top of the world in the US, and then the Europeans came in and now they are top dog. There have been cars and/or brands which have held top spots for years, only for the competition, changes in consumer taste, or their own brand decisions to hurt them in the long run (Taurus, Camry, Cadillac, etc.) Things can always change, with new competitors challenging how things were done. It takes time, but the future is a big question mark for all brands with how drastically the car industry will be changing in the next decade. These regulations of no ICE cars by 2035 may have the possibility of killing off or severely damage certain brands. No one knows what the future may hold.

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      02-05-2021, 12:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Tesla is intimidating to all brands, however, of the luxury brands it seems that BMW is more vulnerable than others. The Model 3 was just the start with many BMW owners swapping their BMW for Tesla. With the introduction of the Y, that could go further to X BMW SUV owners or those cross-shopping the brand.

Interestingly, a little over a year ago, Bloomberg did a survey of Tesla Model 3 owners across the US. One of the parts of the survey discussed what vehicles were traded in. Of course, the Prius topped the list, but interestingly, the 3-series was the second most traded in vehicle on the survey. The next luxury car on that list was the Audi A4, which shared the number nine spot with the Mazda 3.

Tesla’s Model 3 Success Hits BMW the Hardest

I definitely agree with Doug, traditional luxury automakers from BMW, to MB or Audi, are losing desirability. While older clients may stick with the brand and have created loyal relationships, like Doug says the brands also have to appeal to newer and younger clients, as well as create a brand loyal relationship. Anyone can get new buyers, however getting them to stay is the tricky part. The advantage Tesla has is their experience is unlike any other. While a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi owner could get a similar experience to their car from the competitors of the three brands, the Tesla experience is unmatched, and not just because its an EV. Their customer satisfaction and loyalty is through the roof in numerous surveys even with the many negative aspects their brand has such as build quality and customer service, something that would usually prevent a brand from sales.

There was a time when Cadillac was the standard for luxury cars, they were on top of the world, and then the Europeans came in and now they are top dog. There have been cars and/or brands which have held top spots for years, only for the competition, changes in consumer taste, or their own brand decisions to hurt them in the long run (Taurus, Camry, Cadillac, etc.) Things can always change, with new competitors challenging how things were done. It takes time, but the future is a big question mark for all brands with how drastically the car industry will be changing in the next decade. These regulations of no ICE cars by 2035 may have the possibility of killing off or severely damage certain brands. No one knows what the future may hold.

Attachment 2522037
Cadillac top of the world? You mean top of the US maybe? Most people in Europe don't even know how to spell Cadillac, and let's not talk about Asia...
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      02-05-2021, 01:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Cadillac top of the world? You mean top of the US maybe? Most people in Europe don't even know how to spell Cadillac, and let's not talk about Asia...
Its not literal, on top of the world is a figure of speech. Cadillac was once the standard in the US, now look, I think the point is pretty clear. What the future holds is unknown.
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      02-05-2021, 01:08 PM   #11
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BMW used to be about the three E’s - Engineering, Execution and Excitement.

They’ve lost all three to bean counters and marketers.

They have money and time to restore the brand but they better move quickly.
They’ve been screwing around with the grille too long.
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      02-05-2021, 01:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Cadillac top of the world? You mean top of the US maybe? Most people in Europe don't even know how to spell Cadillac, and let's not talk about Asia...
People forget that all too often . On a related topic, here are the recent ev sales rankings from Europe. As you can see, VW already sells almost twice as many ID3’s compared to Tesla M3.
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      02-05-2021, 01:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Tesla is intimidating to all brands, however, of the luxury brands it seems that BMW is more vulnerable than others. The Model 3 was just the start with many BMW owners swapping their BMW for Tesla. With the introduction of the Y, that could go further to X BMW SUV owners or those cross-shopping the brand.

Interestingly, a little over a year ago, Bloomberg did a survey of Tesla Model 3 owners across the US. One of the parts of the survey discussed what vehicles were traded in. Of course, the Prius topped the list, but interestingly, the 3-series was the second most traded in vehicle on the survey. The next luxury car on that list was the Audi A4, which shared the number nine spot with the Mazda 3.

Tesla’s Model 3 Success Hits BMW the Hardest

I definitely agree with Doug, traditional luxury automakers from BMW, to MB or Audi, are losing desirability. While older clients may stick with the brand and have created loyal relationships, like Doug says the brands also have to appeal to newer and younger clients, as well as create a brand loyal relationship. Anyone can get new buyers, however getting them to stay is the tricky part. The advantage Tesla has is their experience is unlike any other. While a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi owner could get a similar experience to their car from the competitors of the three brands, the Tesla experience is unmatched, and not just because its an EV. Their customer satisfaction and loyalty is through the roof in numerous surveys even with the many negative aspects their brand has such as build quality and customer service, something that would usually prevent a brand from sales.

There was a time when Cadillac was the standard for luxury cars, they were on top of the world in the US, and then the Europeans came in and now they are top dog. There have been cars and/or brands which have held top spots for years, only for the competition, changes in consumer taste, or their own brand decisions to hurt them in the long run (Taurus, Camry, Cadillac, etc.) Things can always change, with new competitors challenging how things were done. It takes time, but the future is a big question mark for all brands with how drastically the car industry will be changing in the next decade. These regulations of no ICE cars by 2035 may have the possibility of killing off or severely damage certain brands. No one knows what the future may hold.

Attachment 2522037
Your chart makes sense. They are all, and I mean every single one, vehicles that scream "A to B". Emotionless vehicles that don't stand out in any way, shape or form. So it's not surprising they would be willing to give up their dull vehicle for an equally dull (or in their mind, perhaps slightly dull) EV variant.
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      02-05-2021, 01:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P1 View Post
Your chart makes sense. They are all, and I mean every single one, vehicles that scream "A to B". Emotionless vehicles that don't stand out in any way, shape or form. So it's not surprising they would be willing to give up their dull vehicle for an equally dull (or in their mind, perhaps slightly dull) EV variant.
If it isn't already clear, Elon wants the squishy organic matter sitting in the car to be eliminated from the process of driving.

Exactly the kind of owners that drive rather boring appliances already
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      02-05-2021, 02:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexFL View Post
People forget that all too often . On a related topic, here are the recent ev sales rankings from Europe. As you can see, VW already sells almost twice as many ID3’s compared to Tesla M3.
Both the Renault and VW also start €13k below a Model 3 in most European countries.

China is also an important country when it comes to EV sales as Europe and China are on fairly similar levels of growth in EV's, as well as the fact that the Chinese market is very important to luxury brands as they have been growing steadily.
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      02-05-2021, 02:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Both the Renault and VW also start €13k below a Model 3 in most European countries.

China is also an important country when it comes to EV sales as Europe and China are on fairly similar levels of growth in EV's, as well as the fact that the Chinese market is very important to luxury brands as they have been growing steadily.
Yes, but both VW and Renault likely make more money per sold car than Tesla.
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      02-05-2021, 03:29 PM   #17
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Both BMW and Mercedes seem lost and without a sense of what to do. BMW with the weird aesthetics and model entries and Mercedes is rotting from the inside with egregious quality problems across their model range.

VAG is the one to watch.

I think Tesla will be shoved into a quaint niche brand in 10 years, by VAG and either Toyota or Honda. BMW and Mercedes will have to try to jump into the rope skipping game as best they can, but they are not leaders, or turning the rope.
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      02-05-2021, 05:19 PM   #18
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VAG from a Volkswagen perspective will succeed in general. However, if you look at younger demographics looking at premium brands they are much more excited about a Tesla than an E-Tron, plain and simple, and they will drive future automotive trends. Maybe it's the Elon effect, but that's where the brand loyalty lies.

But I feel with a few more years of maturity, release of FSD, and when Tesla releases that $25,000 car, even Volkswagen will have a harder time.
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      02-05-2021, 05:51 PM   #19
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Frankly, I don’t think he’s wrong. BMW seems completely lost to me. Their marketing is pretty much out of control bad, the next generation seems uninspiring to me, and while this is subjective, the grills look comically out of place.

Overall I’m disappointed.

Last edited by pz619; 02-05-2021 at 06:38 PM..
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      02-05-2021, 06:06 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Frankly, I don’t think he’s wrong. BMW seems completely lost to me. Their marketing is pretty much out of control bad, the next generation seems uninspiring to me, and while this subjective, the grills look comically out of place.

Overall I’m disappointed.
Same. The backers will argue that what's happening right now is no different than the prior generation changes.
That however is vastly under stating the magnitude of the current complaints and issues they have. This is the first time since the inception of the brand where things has gone so wrong in so many ways and many will not be looking to get into another new BMW for a long time.

They want to win young buyers and be cool again? How about making a remotely attractive car with great performance and scale back on the tweeting?

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      02-05-2021, 07:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
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VAG is the one to watch.
I have to agree with you here. When I see a pretty VAG go by, I like to watch.
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      02-05-2021, 08:19 PM   #22
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To Think About What Could've Been - Of Cabbages and Kings

To Think About What Could've Been - Of Cabbages and Kings

Alternatives to the Beaver Teeth grills



Or perhaps



Could BMW sell more of these M3/M4s?



OR THESE?



Does the emperor have no clothes?
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