[rikwynnpa]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...mission-ratio/

BMW should learn from this...give enthusiasts what they want and they'll buy it. Shame Toyota had to teach the Munich guys this.

[stlcdr]

Bear in mind that the Supra has a different market than the Z4. I don’t have statistics to back that up, but I can imagine the Supra as a drift car, the Z4 not so much.

[Horseman]

Originally Posted by stlcdr

Bear in mind that the Supra has a different market than the Z4. I don’t have statistics to back that up, but I can imagine the Supra as a drift car, the Z4 not so much.

This right here... there's also a $20k price difference. Younger crowd is going to get into the Supra more as a "JDM" and do modifications and use it for track and drifting. The Z4, though would be a fun car to have a stick shift available, would really only appeal to a small group out of the already small group that would even buy one in the first place, especially at the $75k price point.

[Bimmerfun82]

The Supra is currently being destroyed by the M2 manual. Both are different buyers than a Z4. That being said, the take rate on the E85 3.0 manual in the North American market was about 40%. I think you'd see a marginal increase in volumes overall but not by much with approx. the same split as the E85 if I had to guess.

In the US, Supra volumes were down 27.5% in 2022 to just under 5k and are on track for a 50% reduction in 2023.
Sources:
https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/toyota/supra
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota...sales-figures/

[Argo]

Originally Posted by Horseman

The Z4, though would be a fun car to have a stick shift available, would really only appeal to a small group out of the already small group that would even buy one in the first place, especially at the $75k price point.

Porsche manages to sell plenty of manual Boxsters / 911 cabs, so there's definitely a market for upscale manual vehicles. There's, of course, the argument that they are purer sports cars though.

[Horseman]

Originally Posted by Argo

Porsche manages to sell plenty of manual Boxsters / 911 cabs, so there's definitely a market for upscale manual vehicles. There's, of course, the argument that they are purer sports cars though.

Porsche is more of a sports car whereas the Z4 is more of a sporty luxury car. Anyone in these forums will tell you that with the porsche comes with a different suspension and a moreover tracky feel.

[Bimmerfun82]

Just some aftermarket suspension work and - voila! - a cheaper, faster, more spacious, luxurious, comfortable Boxster with free maintenance - and no 18 month wait

[jdhiro]

Originally Posted by stlcdr

Bear in mind that the Supra has a different market than the Z4.

Yeah like my market cohort: would love a manual Z4 but wouldn't be seen dead in a Supra.

--

That said, I think it would behoove BMW to make the Z4 manual model sharper and sportier overall.

[Horseman]

Originally Posted by jdhiro

Yeah like my market cohort: would love a manual Z4 but wouldn't be seen dead in a Supra.

--

That said, I think it would behoove BMW to make the Z4 manual model sharper and sportier overall.

What.. like a true Z4M? lol That'd be nice.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Horseman

What.. like a true Z4M? lol That'd be nice.

All you have to do is take the 40i off my car and BAM! Z4 M.

[rikwynnpa]

We'll see in MY24 when a Z4 with a stick is offered. I'd bet money right now that (1) the run is sold out and that (2) tons of people with the M40i and 30i with AT trade theirs in for the 6MT and (3) an M40i with a 6MT starts taking share from Boxster. An M40i with a 6MT would be a direct competitor for a Boxster GTS with the 6 which now costs at least $100K. BMW will sell the hell out of an M40i 6MT. All you guys thinking a Z4 is a luxury car are nuts. A 6MT M40i will be as good a performance car as a Boxster. Get in line now.

Originally Posted by Horseman

This right here... there's also a $20k price difference. Younger crowd is going to get into the Supra more as a "JDM" and do modifications and use it for track and drifting. The Z4, though would be a fun car to have a stick shift available, would really only appeal to a small group out of the already small group that would even buy one in the first place, especially at the $75k price point.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by rikwynnpa

We'll see in MY24 when a Z4 with a stick is offered. I'd bet money right now that (1) the run is sold out and that (2) tons of people with the M40i and 30i with AT trade theirs in for the 6MT and (3) an M40i with a 6MT starts taking share from Boxster. An M40i with a 6MT would be a direct competitor for a Boxster GTS with the 6 which now costs at least $100K. BMW will sell the hell out of an M40i 6MT. All you guys thinking a Z4 is a luxury car are nuts. A 6MT M40i will be as good a performance car as a Boxster. Get in line now.

These are great predictions and in my opinion will only happen if BMW actually allocates some money to a real advertising campaign which is aimed directly at the Boxster.

Otherwise if BMW continues to ignore the Z4 in their advertising campaigns only a smaller group of people that follow forums like Bimmerpost will be in the know and order the 6MT.

[ebirotedu]

Somewhat related, for the first time ever I saw a GR Supra 6MT ad while watching YT videos yesterday.

Normally the ads are for things I have no interest in seeing.

[stlcdr]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

These are great predictions and in my opinion will only happen if BMW actually allocates some money to a real advertising campaign which is aimed directly at the Boxster.

Otherwise if BMW continues to ignore the Z4 in their advertising campaigns only a smaller group of people that follow forums like Bimmerpost will be in the know and order the 6MT.

I know what you mean about the advertising. I was driving a (white) fiat 124 Abarth when I saw a Z4 on a lot - just by happenstance the beer store was across the road from the BMW store. I had to see it to know about it.

Then on the 124 forums did someone bring up the comparison between the 124 and the Z4…I was pretty much sold at that point.

However, where will one see the advertisement though? Internet ads are blocked, don’t see YouTube ads, and stream non-ad tv.

[perryinva]

There will always be some market for manuals, of course. But I sold my 6 speed Carrera specifically for the Z4, and a LOT had to do with the tranny. The 8 speed does pretty much everything right, all the time, IMHO. I am done with the few Autoxs and other things that the manual may excel at, and I am enjoying an amazing automatic.

Since I owned a Z3 before the Porsche, and have owned my X3 since 2019, I was always aware of the new Z4, and drove an early M40i at the dealership when we bought the X3. Wife wanted me to trade the Carrera in for it, but I didn’t like the colors and it was the only one they had, period. At the time, I was still hoping for a manual too, but the Porsche definitely was slower than the Z4.

Like we all know, thanks to C19 and crazy Porsche price increases, the Carrera (a 996.2) went up in value from 2019 to when I sold it this year, though I could have saved the cost of another set of tires. Of course, the 2022 s30i I bought was probably higher as well, though not too much, based on mikes and current stickers.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by ebirotedu

Somewhat related, for the first time ever I saw a GR Supra 6MT ad while watching YT videos yesterday.

Normally the ads are for things I have no interest in seeing.

Wow, shows you how much Toyota sales are tanking in the US at least (thanks to the M2). Supra volumes are down 50% after being down 27.5% last year. Once the M2 was released, sales fell drastically. In July 157 Supras were sold v 538 last July, a drop of 70%.

Year sold
2019 2,884
2020 5,887
2021 6,830
2022 4,952
2023 July YTD 1,778

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Wow, shows you how much Toyota sales are tanking in the US at least (thanks to the M2). Supra volumes are down 50% after being down 27.5% last year. Once the M2 was released, sales fell drastically. In July 157 Supras were sold v 538 last July, a drop of 70%.

Year sold
2019 2,884
2020 5,887
2021 6,830
2022 4,952
2023 July YTD 1,778

How consistent or not is total Graz production if you add Z4s?

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

How consistent or not is total Graz production if you add Z4s?

Great question. If you take into account global production I’m sure it’s relatively stable given the huge volumes of 20i’s in Europe? I don’t have the data though, just a wild guess. But since they DO have production capacity (theoretically), BMW should rush the M coupe and manual M40i to production immediately.

[GerryC]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

How consistent or not is total Graz production if you add Z4s?

I don't know how flexible Magna's production lines are at Graz, but I suspect there's excess capacity. Parts availability may still be an issue.

Z4/Supra production is at best flat. 5-series is in slow decline. G-Wagen is decreasing and well below peak production year numbers. And Jaguar production is anemic at best. The only good news I've seen they're starting up Fisker Ocean production.

[jdhiro]

Originally Posted by Horseman

What.. like a true Z4M? lol That'd be nice.

The GRMN Supra rumors keep at least a small flame lit in my head that there could be a Z4M variant.

It would be an absolute tragedy for them to give the M treatment to a Toyota, and neglect the BMW.

That Z shooting break thing also indicates that BMW is at least thinking about different Z4 futures.

[Horseman]

Originally Posted by jdhiro

The GRMN Supra rumors keep at least a small flame lit in my head that there could be a Z4M variant.

It would be an absolute tragedy for them to give the M treatment to a Toyota, and neglect the BMW.

That Z shooting break thing also indicates that BMW is at least thinking about different Z4 futures.

Awhile back we had a few discussions on this forum about the discontinuation of the Z4 by 2025. So ... we'll see if they do anything for the last year.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Horseman

Awhile back we had a few discussions on this forum about the discontinuation of the Z4 by 2025. So ... we'll see if they do anything for the last year.

Production of the Z4 was extended to March 2026