[CeEl]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

I think it's too soon to call. Maybe work for Supra, M2 (& other models?) plus ICE ending somehow makes a special G29 possible. I also think getting an allocation will be tough if it happens.

Yes, maybe it will create a (relative) surge of demand. I do wish BMW success if they come out with a 'final edition'. Who knows maybe they even have to extend EOP due to demand?

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by CeEl

The development cost would be spread across all Z4's sold worldwide, not just the ones sold in the USA. But of course still (too) low volume.

Agree on world wide development costs factored in. Thing is the North American market accounted for 3,042 of the 5,070 total built so I think its a good number to make a WAG on.

Throw everybody in & you are looking at with a 28% take rate 1,416 units with an 6MT. Still not a lot of cars.

Then knock that number down by how many of the 5,070 cars were 4 cylinder vs 6 cylinder when considering the potential base for a pure M version.

The StingRay C8 went DCT only from a 20% MT take rate in the last model year of the C7 when the were effectively dumping the cars at rock bottom prices. IIRC the 3 major dealers had sub $50,000 numbers for them.

Can see the 6MT as the euro & maybe others have a base 6MT now. Would be the case of matching a heavier duty 6MT to the engine. Not a big deal as BMW already has the transmissions & IMHO finically viable for BMW if the Supra actually shows up with a stick.

Moving to a pure M version is to me a whole other set of issues. Can they do it? Yes. Will it be priced alongside the M4? Don't think so.

The rumor mill has Toyota at $80,000 base no options. Using todays 3.0L 6 the base price spread its Z4 M40i $65,000 while the Toyota 3.0L 6 premium is $55,650 or + $9,350 more.

On a straight continuing pricing strategy the Z4 would be $89,350 base price.

Thing is I don't think they would swap in a Z4 pure M car replacing the current M40i for M-Sport money.

Stranger things have happened but personally I will hang onto the Z4. If they actually did do a M I would buy if it was AWD/8ZF equipped otherwise my M40i will live on.

[OVERLND99]

I have a question that is slightly off topic, but kind of on topic. With all this information about sales reports and number of Z4s sold, is there any report or discussion that shows a take rate on the color choice? I am curious to know how popular each color option is among Z4 buyers. If there is already a discussion on this, please let me know. I did search for this a few different ways but could not find what I was looking for.

[StanDiego]

Originally Posted by OVERLND99

I have a question that is slightly off topic, but kind of on topic. With all this information about sales reports and number of Z4s sold, is there any report or discussion that shows a take rate on the color choice? I am curious to know how popular each color option is among Z4 buyers. If there is already a discussion on this, please let me know. I did search for this a few different ways but could not find what I was looking for.

I'm curious as well but wonder how much the numbers are skewed by vehicles built by the dealership rather than purchaser. I suspect dealers are more conservative than customers though I could be mistaken.

[CeEl]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Agree on world wide development costs factored in. Thing is the North American market accounted for 3,042 of the 5,070 total built so I think its a good number to make a WAG on.

Over which time period? They sold almost 3x more Z4 in Germany than in the USA YTD? About 3,000 cars combined.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by CeEl

Over which time period? They sold almost 3x more Z4 in Germany than in the USA YTD? About 3,000 cars combined.

Was listed as 2021 model year. BMW reports into this system Quartey with monthly numbers.

2022 USA

Jan 89
Feb 89
Mar 100
Apr 163
May157
Jun 157

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by OVERLND99

I have a question that is slightly off topic, but kind of on topic. With all this information about sales reports and number of Z4s sold, is there any report or discussion that shows a take rate on the color choice? I am curious to know how popular each color option is among Z4 buyers. If there is already a discussion on this, please let me know. I did search for this a few different ways but could not find what I was looking for.

Expect they exist some palace. Was not worth spending the time for a major search on this subject. Did not expect any major numbers for the Z4 so was just looking for the ratios.

As for the raw numbers in Europe the Z4 goes way down the engine list with small engines at 2.0 - 197BHP. So you can't do a line by line compare with the USA/CND products. My Z4 would cost exclusive of taxes ect $77,900 in Europe.

Data for Corvettes is easy to get colors, engines, transmissions, suspensions, seats etc.

You can always start a POLL here to see what the members have.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by StanDiego

I'm curious as well but wonder how much the numbers are skewed by vehicles built by the dealership rather than purchaser. I suspect dealers are more conservative than customers though I could be mistaken.

Dealer cars don't skew the numbers. They are real and account for cars actually sold. BMW builds what is ordered & make their internal projections from these numbers. If the dealers are not going to stock MT cars BMW is not going to build them without a big pile of end user MT orders.

The dealers will always order cars that will sell fast as they are paying interest to the bank (floor plan) for cars sitting on the lot.

EDIT: Just a side note BMW Australia has had a 6MT on their configurator for a few years. The sold 2 units. The 6MT has been removed as a option this year.

Why this is important. Australia is the country most like the USA in their car usages. Big country lots of open space between cites with people who like to drive. If the MT failed there I think the USA will be a long shot.

[BMWGirlFL]

Germany - August & YTD 2022

[BMWGirlFL]

[Amadeo]

European Z4 sales in the last 7 years

[Amadeo]

European car sales statistics are from the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland.

[BMWGirlFL]

Germany - September & YTD 2022

[BMWGirlFL]

Worldwide:

[stlcdr]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Worldwide:

Attachment 3026195

Unfortunately, this tells me that if the Z4 went away tomorrow, it would likely be a net positive for BMW.

[ebirotedu]

Sales in 2022 were constrained by component supply issues.

If an >18% YtY decline in sales are a reason to terminate the Z4, then BMW would also terminate the 1, 2, 7, 8 series cars and the X1/X2. All of which would leave them with a greatly reduced model lineup and long term net loss of sales and market share.

What I see, excepting the 7 series which is brand new for 2022, is BMW allocating scare components to the models that yield the largest profits like the X5 and X7. Things will normalize once component bottlenecks are resolved.

Originally Posted by stlcdr

Unfortunately, this tells me that if the Z4 went away tomorrow, it would likely be a net positive for BMW.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by ebirotedu

Sales in 2022 were constrained by component supply issues.

If an >18% YtY decline in sales are a reason to terminate the Z4, then BMW would also terminate the 1, 2, 7, 8 series cars and the X1/X2. All of which would leave them with a greatly reduced model lineup and long term net loss of sales and market share.

What I see, excepting the 7 series which is brand new for 2022, is BMW allocating scare components to the models that yield the largest profits like the X5 and X7. Things will normalize once component bottlenecks are resolved.

There are many other models that have worst sales results than the Z4. 😉

[stlcdr]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

There are many other models that have worst sales results than the Z4. 😉

When other models sell more than 10x as many, and bmw has a lot of models, I can’t see the Z4 as anything other than a novelty. 10k cars in a bit less than a year isn’t a lot, really. It’s nothing to do with the percentage drop in sales, it’s absolute numbers.

[ebirotedu]

Lots to unpack there, but if your point is that BMW is likely to kill of the Z4 because it’s not central to the brand’s strategy around the capital intensive transition to EVs, I agree. They’ve already hinted enough that the Z4 is dead after 2025.

TBH though, I’m not sure I would care about an EV Z4 any more than I care about an EV Boxster. Maybe I’ll change my mind at some point in the future when there are no ICE powered drop-tops left that interest me.

Originally Posted by stlcdr

When other models sell more than 10x as many, and bmw has a lot of models, I can’t see the Z4 as anything other than a novelty. 10k cars in a bit less than a year isn’t a lot, really. It’s nothing to do with the percentage drop in sales, it’s absolute numbers.

[stlcdr]

Originally Posted by ebirotedu

Lots to unpack there, but if your point is that BMW is likely to kill of the Z4 because it’s not central to the brand’s strategy around the capital intensive transition to EVs, I agree. They’ve already hinted enough that the Z4 is dead after 2025.

TBH though, I’m not sure I would care about an EV Z4 any more than I care about an EV Boxster. Maybe I’ll change my mind at some point in the future when there are no ICE powered drop-tops left that interest me.

I think that the 2 seater convertible is a novelty for BMW. Conversely, it is core to Porsche identity. The EV thing really muddies the water. Porsche have done a good job of EV, I think.

However, what is it about a 2 seater convertible that’s attractive to people? Power? Sure, but the chassis has to lend itself to the roadster style (light, planted but nimble). Batteries are anything but.

I’ve driven a couple of teslas. Design aside, the the immediate power and acceleration has a massive wow, factor. 0-2 seconds or so (a fellow at work has the high powered plaid) is astounding, but…then what?

Point being, at some point, trying hard to succeed at something…means something. The ICE in a roadster is a challenge, a compromise, gives up something convenient (?) for something better. Generations are changing, and they want everything; and mostly can have it.

A convertible is like going outside to play with a stick and a pile of dirt, and an imagination. Today, why would anyone want that?!

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by stlcdr

A convertible is like going outside to play with a stick and a pile of dirt, and an imagination. Today, why would anyone want that?!

Does it count if I like to have a pail, a shovel and some sand at the beach. Some people like to build sandcastles!

[BMWGirlFL]

The BMW M automobile recently accounted for more than 30 percent of the worldwide sales volume for the roadster, in Germany the BMW Z4 M40i even had a share of 48 percent.

In total, more than 55,000 third-generation BMW Z4s have already been sold worldwide. The most important individual market for the Roadster is Germany, where around 26 percent of all vehicles of the current model generation have been sold, followed by the USA with 17 percent, China, the United Kingdom and Japan. In a vehicle segment that is declining overall, the BMW Z4 has had an extraordinarily constant sales volume since it went on sale. Right from the start, it was by far the best-selling model in its highly competitive vehicle class, which is exclusively occupied by German premium brands, and since then it has steadily increased its market share.

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/deuts...odelljahr-2023