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      11-19-2020, 10:55 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
As I said, stats are not applicable for this challenge.
You are literally the only one who believes that they don't matter because it is the only way your narrative works.

As Paddy Lowe said earlier: One WDC can be said to be "because of the car, when it's 7, it's the driver".
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      11-19-2020, 11:13 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBri89 View Post
I think he's done no worse than Hamilton's first few years.

Don't forget, Max is not in a leading car, the Mercedes is.
The McLaren of Lewis' first 2 years was far more a front runner than the Red Bull has been the last few years.
Sir . You nailed it !

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      11-19-2020, 11:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwingman View Post
Exactly. In equal cars, Max would eat louis’s lunch. All day.
Spot on !
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      11-19-2020, 11:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
I don't pertain to know everything about F1 cars or their secrets, no one should except if they are involved with the tech and construction and they don't have to hide any secrets, after all..there is an engine cover over the motor!!
I see you conveniently edited your previous post because you got called out.
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      11-19-2020, 11:18 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
You are literally the only one who believes that they don't matter because it is the only way your narrative works.

As Paddy Lowe said earlier: One WDC can be said to be "because of the car, when it's 7, it's the driver".
Stats are not a prerequisite for having this challenge.
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      11-19-2020, 11:20 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches View Post
I see you conveniently edited your previous post because you got called out.
So what, that is what the edit button is for
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      11-19-2020, 11:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBri89 View Post
I think he's done no worse than Hamilton's first few years.

Don't forget, Max is not in a leading car, the Mercedes is.
The McLaren of Lewis' first 2 years was far more a front runner than the Red Bull has been the last few years.
Sorry I missed you earlier, that's a star post
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      11-19-2020, 11:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
VER has asked HAM if he would like to prove once and for all that he is a better driver by a driving comparison back to back in some yet to be decided Merc machinery but preferably an 11.
It would be no skin of Wolff's nose to arrange a little meet up like this and would end all the meaningless polls meant to detract from this by a well known poster on B/Post
So far Wolff and HAM have done their best to belittle this reasonable request to end the often asked question and brush it under the carpet.
So, will it happen after all or will the excuses pile up like i.e. car not available, no time, too busy, against the rules lol or **just-plain-chicken**.
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      11-19-2020, 11:42 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
The challenge is heightening by the minute and now that HAM has the championship there can hardly be any excuses not to accept it.

Last edited by M5theonlyone; 11-19-2020 at 11:47 AM..
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      11-19-2020, 11:46 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
NOR is 12 years old and Jordan is a thousand years old. Like your OPINION, their OPINIONs don't matter.

If you compare the records at 5 years in their respective careers, HAM kills VER. If you put them in the same car HAM would also kill him. VER is a head case in the most extreme way. Turkey illustrated this. Look how Lance Stroll broke VER and sent him crying next to a garbage bin during qualifying. THIS is the person you will put against Lewis. This is daft, my friend.
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      11-19-2020, 11:52 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
All I have to say to this is look at the last race. Max span out not once, but twice. Hamilton did not. Better driver makes all the difference.
Hamilton has more than twice the years in F1. Experience is key.

Compare Max with twice the experience, or Lewis when he wasn't experienced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Really?
Hamiltons first 9 races with near zero F1 seat time were all podiums considerably outscoring the then current 2DWC Alonso.
He would have won the 2007 DWC bar a gearbox fault at the last race. He then went on to win the 2008 DWC.


And after 5 years he still manages to not win races he should have (see Istanbul) because he lacks the instinctive talent to control the car at the limit of adhesive and more importantly he lacks racing intelligence.
Lewis's first 9 races were in a car that should have won the championship that year, and did the next year.
Max has never raced in a car that should have won the championship.

And Lewis lacked racing intelligence too in his early years... making simple significant mistakes, attracting a number of penalties, throwing away better places. He was raw, and needed refining.
But since then he has become a far more rounded racer, a polished diamond.

Max hasn't had the benefit of that time yet. He is also several years younger than Lewis was at the same stage. So he lacked a few years experience of competing in the lower but high-talent formulas. As well as the human factors too.



I'm not saying Max is a better driver than Lewis now, because he's not. Maybe over one lap in the same car he is. Over a race he doesn't have those honed skills Lewis does.

And I'm not saying in a few years he'll be a better driver then than Lewis is now, because we have no way of predicting the future. But you can't compare Lewis now and Max now, it's not a fair comparison.
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      11-19-2020, 12:00 PM   #34
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Logic don't apply to their kind.

F1 Gossip team out in full force.
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      11-19-2020, 12:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
The challenge is heightening by the minute and now that HAM has the championship there can be few excuses not to accept it.
By the challenge gave MAX the chance to HAM to prove he's the GOAT !

In the challenge video ,HAM's reaction was very reluctant and he had zero defence !

I'm pretty sure this GOAT isn't afraid for a challenge !
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      11-19-2020, 12:31 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
NOR is 12 years old and Jordan is a thousand years old. Like your OPINION, their OPINIONs don't matter.

If you compare the records at 5 years in their respective careers, HAM kills VER. If you put them in the same car HAM would also kill him. VER is a head case in the most extreme way. Turkey illustrated this. Look how Lance Stroll broke VER and sent him crying next to a garbage bin during qualifying. THIS is the person you will put against Lewis. This is daft, my friend.
And where was your GOAT during the Turk qualifying ?
In the garbage bin ...
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      11-19-2020, 12:47 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
And where was your GOAT during the Turk qualifying ?
In the garbage bin ...
Yet he was at the top spot at the finish line. You know, (since you’re not dumb as you put it), the only place that matters
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      11-19-2020, 12:54 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBri89 View Post
Hamilton has more than twice the years in F1. Experience is key.

Compare Max with twice the experience, or Lewis when he wasn't experienced.



Lewis's first 9 races were in a car that should have won the championship that year, and did the next year.
Max has never raced in a car that should have won the championship.

And Lewis lacked racing intelligence too in his early years... making simple significant mistakes, attracting a number of penalties, throwing away better places. He was raw, and needed refining.
But since then he has become a far more rounded racer, a polished diamond.

Max hasn't had the benefit of that time yet. He is also several years younger than Lewis was at the same stage. So he lacked a few years experience of competing in the lower but high-talent formulas. As well as the human factors too.



I'm not saying Max is a better driver than Lewis now, because he's not. Maybe over one lap in the same car he is. Over a race he doesn't have those honed skills Lewis does.

And I'm not saying in a few years he'll be a better driver then than Lewis is now, because we have no way of predicting the future. But you can't compare Lewis now and Max now, it's not a fair comparison.
Mate .I couldn't agree more ,but as we know is predicting much easier in the best car of the decade ...

Bottas in the RB16 wouldn't finish one single race . But Bottas with ZERO RACECRAFT can win races in a MERC !
This is how good and fast the MERC really is ....
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      11-19-2020, 12:59 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBri89 View Post

I'm not saying Max is a better driver than Lewis now, because he's not. Maybe over one lap in the same car he is. Over a race he doesn't have those honed skills Lewis does.

And I'm not saying in a few years he'll be a better driver then than Lewis is now, because we have no way of predicting the future. But you can't compare Lewis now and Max now, it's not a fair comparison.
Than I respect your view, since you can reach a realistic and logical conclusion.

Unfortunately 2 others on this forum insist that MAX is better now, was always better, and will always be better, and that the car is all. Driver doesn't matter. Performance, logic or data be damned. That's the fallacious view 80%+ of contributors to F1 threads are arguing against.

Edit: case and point right above. 😂
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      11-19-2020, 03:20 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
And where was your GOAT during the Turk qualifying ?
In the garbage bin ...
I've been watching F1 for over 4 decades and I'm fairly certain points are scored on Sunday. Like last Sunday. When HAM won the race.

Lewis for the Win. Verstappen for the Spin.
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      11-19-2020, 03:32 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
By the challenge gave MAX the chance to HAM to prove he's the GOAT !

In the challenge video ,HAM's reaction was very reluctant and he had zero defence !

I'm pretty sure this GOAT isn't afraid for a challenge !
At the mo it appears there's no more words from the goat on that and he's running up a mountain to escape the challenge, 'toto I don't want to '
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      11-19-2020, 03:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBri89 View Post
Hamilton has more than twice the years in F1. Experience is key.

Compare Max with twice the experience, or Lewis when he wasn't experienced.

Lewis's first 9 races were in a car that should have won the championship that year, and did the next year.
Max has never raced in a car that should have won the championship.

And Lewis lacked racing intelligence too in his early years... making simple significant mistakes, attracting a number of penalties, throwing away better places. He was raw, and needed refining.
But since then he has become a far more rounded racer, a polished diamond.

Max hasn't had the benefit of that time yet. He is also several years younger than Lewis was at the same stage. So he lacked a few years experience of competing in the lower but high-talent formulas. As well as the human factors too.




I'm not saying Max is a better driver than Lewis now, because he's not. Maybe over one lap in the same car he is. Over a race he doesn't have those honed skills Lewis does.

And I'm not saying in a few years he'll be a better driver then than Lewis is now, because we have no way of predicting the future. But you can't compare Lewis now and Max now, it's not a fair comparison.
The last is accurate...the emboldened is questionable. Lewis has never made the type and volume of mistakes that Max has. Raw, yes. But Lewis hasn't banged wheels like Max has. He as always raced hard but fair. Young and inexperienced, yes...banging wheels and the bulldozing Max has done, not quite.

Lewis has the best rookie season in the history of F1. As you stated, his first 9 races were stunning...all podiums. And what I'm not seeing from Max is the ability to take each advantage as it comes. As I shared earlier, he has had over 20 opportunities at tracks that suited the RBR package and he converted 2 of them to poles. Two. And he's been in a top 3 car for all but the time he was at Torro Rosso. That is a dismal record. And yet there are people who say he is faster over one lap. And the same people say that Max is the Rain Master. These are both fictions bordering on the ridiculous.

These are the reasons that I find it laughable for people to have the stones to say Max is better. It is a display of emotionalism and propaganda over facts no matter where you compare their careers.

Lastly, if Max doesn't get his head together, he will go down as another fast but ultimately disappointing F1 driver. Somewhat similar to Jarno Trulli. Fast over one lap in a few situations but not much else as far as results.

Great post!

Cheers-mk
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      11-19-2020, 03:44 PM   #43
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Max just has bits of inner jealously in him and thinks he is deserving.
didn't he call Vettel and ham wankers last season? can't have all the ego AND behave like that lol.
Reminds of Alonso a bit... HOWEVER Alonso was a hell of a driver in F1 with a title win (remember how he used to warm up his michelins drifting from left to right). No one could do that.
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      11-19-2020, 03:46 PM   #44
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Top 3 car when you're comparing it to the Mercedes and the ("allegedly" illegal) 2018/2019 Ferrari is like saying best of the rest with no real hope of a win.

The 2007/2008 McLaren was pretty much the best car on the grid and certainly on level pegging with the Ferrari then. No other cars came close.


So I still don't think it's fair to compare Lewis and Max's first couple of seasons.

Lewis did an incredible job in his first season. He also had too many crashes in his next few seasons, including crashing into stationary cars in the pitlane in Canada when there was a clear red light.
He also squeezed people or went for gaps that weren't there or failed to concede a place that resulted in contact.

Even at Mercedes the collision with Rosberg in Barcelona was entirely prevented by Lewis lifting off when he was on the grass. He was never going to keep the place and ended up causing the crash.
Rosberg might have forced him off, but Lewis was the one that kept his foot in during an always 100% futile attempt to keep the overtake going. He lost control and hit Rosberg.


So he's made enough errors like Max.


It's also worth mentioning that the Red Bull clearly has a sensitive back end (ooh err) as Albon has found quite a lot. Max lost it in the wet in a corner following extremely closely to the car infront.
If you watch the footage from Spa when Perez(?) has the broken wing and moves across the back of another car, the violence of the wake as he passes right behind shakes the wing loads, but off to either side the wing was still. That's what caused Danny Ric to lose almost all front downforce in Baku when the RBs crashed. It's likely what upset Max's car in Turkey, far more than his driving.

And I say that with some significant credibility in aerodynamics and computational fluid dynamics, although not specifically in the field of motorsport.
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