BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW Z4 Forums (G29) BMW Z4 (G29) General Forum Car and Driver compares the Boxster to the Z4

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-07-2019, 11:27 AM   #23
Eric500
um...
Eric500's Avatar
401
Rep
408
Posts

Drives: LC500
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
As a relatively new BMW owner (had an X3 a while back and currently have a Jaguar F type V8S, MB SLK350 and GLC43AMG), I have to admit that I don't get all the lamentation about lacking a Z4M..... The M40i is the best performing Z4 to date whatever you call it, easily eclipsing all Z3's and 4's that have come before it in any way you can measure such things. Seeing as how the M40i already outperforms some "real M cars" on the dragstrip and the track, I'm not sure it matters what it's called. What engine would they use in a 2020 Z4M anyhow and how much faster do you think it'd be....

2 cents,
Dave
I mean the lack of a Z4 isn't so bad as the M40i is great, but its just disappointing that BMW would rather make a 2 ton M SUV rather than a true sports car, especially since the brand prides themselves on making great sport cars
This might be a controversial opinion, but they could have just called the M40i the Z4M.

BMW did very little cosmetically to the X3/4M so the Z4 M40i could have pretty much been z4m.

M40i already does 0-60 in 3.9? They could have just bumped hp to 400 and called it a day. 3.9 is what the current M3 does now. The M cars range from 3.1 to 4.1 seconds 0-60.

The only other thing is handling. They could have also easily changed a few things and let the M team do some tuning. Not too knowledgeable but doesn't seem too difficult.

But all in the M40i is basically the z4m in all but name, which imo they could have just called it that given its specs. Just my 2 cents feel free to tell me how wrong I am LOL.

And yes I know the M cars go through way more development, but BMW is diluting M anyways so it wouldn't bother me to have just named this one z4m
__________________
328i -> 535i -> X5 -> 540i -> Lexus LC500
Appreciate 2
stein_325i25051.00
hans007604.50
      06-07-2019, 11:42 AM   #24
Huz-Z
Brigadier General
Huz-Z's Avatar
Canada
843
Rep
4,051
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0si, 328 XDrive, X5 35i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
As a relatively new BMW owner (had an X3 a while back and currently have a Jaguar F type V8S, MB SLK350 and GLC43AMG), I have to admit that I don't get all the lamentation about lacking a Z4M..... The M40i is the best performing Z4 to date whatever you call it, easily eclipsing all Z3's and 4's that have come before it in any way you can measure such things. Seeing as how the M40i already outperforms some "real M cars" on the dragstrip and the track, I'm not sure it matters what it's called. What engine would they use in a 2020 Z4M anyhow and how much faster do you think it'd be....

2 cents,
Dave
I bought my E85 Z4 3.0 si almost ten years ago now and I still love it. Its in great shape and low mileage, so while the newer cars are better performers, I am looking forward to many more summers with my current Z4, but with $70K us in the bank. Maybe one day I'll get a new one, but not for a while.

On the topic of the E85 and E86 Z4M, yes, newer cars outperform it. But the Z4M was one of the last raw M cars. Naturally aspirated, hydraulic steering a six-speed manual transmission and the engine from the M3 CSL. There is a reason why the Z4M owners on the E85 forum are so enthusiastic about the car and why they are starting to go up in value. As Hammond said in the video I posted earlier, "it absolutely steals your heart". That's hard to measure.

Re the new G29 Z4 - is it better and more modern than the Z4M? On paper - it would seem so. From sitting in the driver's seat? Well now that would be an interesting review to read! Either way, the G29 is certainly a great car and a very strong move in the right direction for the Z4 name.
__________________
Huz-Z


BMW Z4 3.0si Roadster. Montego Blue Metallic. Premium and Sport Package.
Appreciate 1
      06-07-2019, 11:42 AM   #25
DPelletier
Lieutenant
Canada
675
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 Z4 M40i  [7.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I mean the lack of a Z4 isn't so bad as the M40i is great, but its just disappointing that BMW would rather make a 2 ton M SUV rather than a true sports car, especially since the brand prides themselves on making great sport cars
That makes sense to me. :-)

Dave
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2019, 11:48 AM   #26
Huz-Z
Brigadier General
Huz-Z's Avatar
Canada
843
Rep
4,051
Posts

Drives: Z4 3.0si, 328 XDrive, X5 35i
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
That makes sense to me. :-)

Dave
Agreed!
__________________
Huz-Z


BMW Z4 3.0si Roadster. Montego Blue Metallic. Premium and Sport Package.
Appreciate 0
      06-07-2019, 11:57 AM   #27
DPelletier
Lieutenant
Canada
675
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 Z4 M40i  [7.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Tsang View Post
This might be a controversial opinion, but they could have just called the M40i the Z4M.

BMW did very little cosmetically to the X3/4M so the Z4 M40i could have pretty much been z4m.

M40i already does 0-60 in 3.9? They could have just bumped hp to 400 and called it a day. 3.9 is what the current M3 does now. The M cars range from 3.1 to 4.1 seconds 0-60.

The only other thing is handling. They could have also easily changed a few things and let the M team do some tuning. Not too knowledgeable but doesn't seem too difficult.



But all in the M40i is basically the z4m in all but name, which imo they could have just called it that given its specs. Just my 2 cents feel free to tell me how wrong I am LOL.

And yes I know the M cars go through way more development, but BMW is diluting M anyways so it wouldn't bother me to have just named this one z4m
Thanks, you said it better than I did. ....as far as handling, I'm guessing the M2 handles better than it's larger M bretheren and the M40i managed to beat the M2 around the track so I'm not even sure the M40i needs work on it's handling to be well into "M" territory. ......not saying they couldn't have done more, there is always more just like there is always a faster car...

On your last point, the MB crowd is just as critical of mercedes using the AMG badge on cars that "aren't a real AMG"...Me? I don't care what it's called if it has the power, looks and handling I want.

BTW, the reason I'm on this forum is because I tried another one first and they didn't even HAVE a G29 forum....when someone asked why, one of the answers was " because the G29 isn't a real BMW" , obviously alluding to the cash that Toyota ponied up to obtain the Z4 chassis and drivetrain. .....I mean, I can understand the Toyota faithful questioning whether the new Supra is really 100% Toyota, but the Z4 isn't a real BMW? .....This just illustrates some peoples' personal biases IMO.






Dave
Appreciate 1
hans007604.50
      06-07-2019, 02:01 PM   #28
tmehanna
Private
30
Rep
79
Posts

Drives: 528i f10
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Egypt

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
I mean the lack of a Z4 isn't so bad as the M40i is great, but its just disappointing that BMW would rather make a 2 ton M SUV rather than a true sports car, especially since the brand prides themselves on making great sport cars
X series cars are big sellers for BMW so it makes sense for them to build M versions at least as marketing exercises. The Z4 however is a niche car they probably wouldn't have built this time around without passing some of the development cost to Toyota. Z4Ms would be niche within a niche and the projected sales figures probably wouldn't justify the development costs, no matter how small. BMW expects the Z4 20i (194 bhp, 231 lb.ft) which isn't available in the US to make up over 60% of global Z4 sales and I would guess the 30i would be another 30% which leaves the M40i at 10% of 10,000 units a year or 1000 units! So don't blame BMW for not building Z4Ms and building the X6Ms they sell more of every year than all Z4 models combined.
Appreciate 1
hans007604.50
      06-07-2019, 02:27 PM   #29
DPelletier
Lieutenant
Canada
675
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 Z4 M40i  [7.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmehanna View Post
X series cars are big sellers for BMW so it makes sense for them to build M versions at least as marketing exercises. The Z4 however is a niche car they probably wouldn't have built this time around without passing some of the development cost to Toyota. Z4Ms would be niche within a niche and the projected sales figures probably wouldn't justify the development costs, no matter how small. BMW expects the Z4 20i (194 bhp, 231 lb.ft) which isn't available in the US to make up over 60% of global Z4 sales and I would guess the 30i would be another 30% which leaves the M40i at 10% of 10,000 units a year or 1000 units! So don't blame BMW for not building Z4Ms and building the X6Ms they sell more of every year than all Z4 models combined.

"Marketing exercise" is exactly right....or to restate: I understand the economics of the situation (the WHY they did it) but, at the same time, can empathize with the previous posters' laments on the issue. That said, I still agree with Eric and regardless of whether they call it an M40i or a Z4M, it's still a great car that offers excellent performance. After test driving the 981 Boxster, 718 Boxster S, Jag F type, 997 911, SLC43AMG and the Z4 M40i, I voted with my chequebook.

Dave
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2019, 02:44 AM   #30
hans007
Major
605
Rep
1,077
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M340i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Tsang View Post
This might be a controversial opinion, but they could have just called the M40i the Z4M.

BMW did very little cosmetically to the X3/4M so the Z4 M40i could have pretty much been z4m.

M40i already does 0-60 in 3.9? They could have just bumped hp to 400 and called it a day. 3.9 is what the current M3 does now. The M cars range from 3.1 to 4.1 seconds 0-60.

The only other thing is handling. They could have also easily changed a few things and let the M team do some tuning. Not too knowledgeable but doesn't seem too difficult.

But all in the M40i is basically the z4m in all but name, which imo they could have just called it that given its specs. Just my 2 cents feel free to tell me how wrong I am LOL.

And yes I know the M cars go through way more development, but BMW is diluting M anyways so it wouldn't bother me to have just named this one z4m
Its got more power than the M2 non competition, and is faster.

Don't give bmw ideas, they will add 15hp ECU flash, M mirrors, a stiffer suspension from the M2, and a double slat grill and charge another $15k
Appreciate 0
      06-08-2019, 04:28 AM   #31
hans007
Major
605
Rep
1,077
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M340i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmehanna View Post
X series cars are big sellers for BMW so it makes sense for them to build M versions at least as marketing exercises. The Z4 however is a niche car they probably wouldn't have built this time around without passing some of the development cost to Toyota. Z4Ms would be niche within a niche and the projected sales figures probably wouldn't justify the development costs, no matter how small. BMW expects the Z4 20i (194 bhp, 231 lb.ft) which isn't available in the US to make up over 60% of global Z4 sales and I would guess the 30i would be another 30% which leaves the M40i at 10% of 10,000 units a year or 1000 units! So don't blame BMW for not building Z4Ms and building the X6Ms they sell more of every year than all Z4 models combined.

I'm all for the SUVs. Its very porsche like.

They barely made the new Z4 as it is. No doubt toyota and bmw will barely make money on it if not even lose a little money.

At their hearts these guys want to make cool cars. Akio Toyoda wants to make cool cars, guys at BMW want to make fun cars.

They have to justify the expense.

So they make a cool car that people talk about as a fantasy that maybe they could get if they could afford a second car, don't have kids etc. Haloish cars. They don't make a lot of them but whatever.

It helps with marketing, the engineers at the company feel happy working on something they want to drive etc. They find a way to justify it even if it means partnering with another car company.

They fund this by building giant SUVs with huge profit margins. They make "sporty M versions" of those SUVs for the guys who have families and have to try to be practical and can really only justify 1 car to drive and in a compromise say something like... well F it, I have to carry like 70 loads of mulch and my 2 kids and a dog and I want a BMW so I'll get a large suv, but if I am gonna do it I'm convincing my wife I'm paying an extra $30k so I can at least feel sort of like I got a sports car for a X5/X4/X3 M with 500-600hp. This market exists, BMW gives them an SUV with a ground effects kit, twin turbos, and carbon fiber accents all over. and the cash register makes its ca-ching sound in profit because really, they just dropped in an engine they are sharing across 20 models, stiffened the springs, put a camo wrap on the car and drove it around the Nurburgring a few times for spy shots and added $30k to the price. BMW is happy, the guy buying the car is happy, and theres extra $ to make some pet project cars.

BMW makes a ton of money because a buyer wanted a sports car they saw in the showroom but they had to get 1 car that handled everything. Its the same with the macan/cayenne which porsche makes boatloads of money on, while they can barely justify making a next gen cayman/boxster.

I feel lucky we even get the Z4. Build a billion more X5s and BMW can scrape up a few extra bucks for a twin turbo z4 M coupe g29 skunworks style "last ever gas powered 2 seat car we're ever making hurrah before the EPA / EU regulations ruin it all" car in like 2022.

Last edited by hans007; 06-08-2019 at 04:34 AM..
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2019, 09:16 AM   #32
james11
Enlisted Member
james11's Avatar
Poland
31
Rep
37
Posts

Drives: 2022 Z4 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Warsaw, Poland

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007 View Post
I'm all for the SUVs. Its very porsche like.

They barely made the new Z4 as it is. No doubt toyota and bmw will barely make money on it if not even lose a little money.
Let's see how Z4 will sell. If it go well, I'm sure BMW will invest more. They are not charity, clearly they are aiming to make money out of this. Looking at numbers for BMW NA, so far 896 units sold YTD.
Hopefully it will improve, since it just became available. https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1622297
Appreciate 1
      06-11-2019, 02:06 AM   #33
SD ///M4
///Multiple
SD ///M4's Avatar
United_States
2992
Rep
4,243
Posts

Drives: M4 Coupe | M3 | Z4M Roadster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
As a relatively new BMW owner (had an X3 a while back and currently have a Jaguar F type V8S, MB SLK350 and GLC43AMG), I have to admit that I don't get all the lamentation about lacking a Z4M..... The M40i is the best performing Z4 to date whatever you call it, easily eclipsing all Z3's and 4's that have come before it in any way you can measure such things. Seeing as how the M40i already outperforms some "real M cars" on the dragstrip and the track, I'm not sure it matters what it's called. What engine would they use in a 2020 Z4M anyhow and how much faster do you think it'd be....
"As a relatively new BMW owner...". Herein lies the problem in your perception. To long-time BMW enthusiasts, particularly those who have owned E30, E36, E46, E9x, and now F8x M3/M4s, there are certain things that "make an M an M". Foremost, in the past mind you, an M car has to have, above all, a bespoke engine, an engine that isn't available in any other model. It has to have "aero mirrors", it has to have quad exhaust pipes. There have been other criteria, such having an inline six (even though the E30 had a inline four) and the heresy of having a V8 in the E9x M3, or having turbos in the F8x M3/M4. "The previous models didn't have that!" they cry.

When the 3 Series split off the 4 Series, and the M4 was introduced, there were people who said that they were going to put an M3 badge on their M4, because the M3 is the only "true" M3, even though the E46 M3 was a coupe and wasn't offered in a sedan.

When the M2 was introduced people were having a fit because it didn't have a bespoke M engine, and it didn't have "M mirrors", so it wasn't a "real M", according to some...

There is a somewhat snobby, elitist group whose membership criteria demands that the member own an M car, and they check the VIN. If it doesn't start with "WBS" or isn't a Z3 or Z4 M Roadster/Coupe, you can't join. You're even warned that if you ever sell your "real" M car, you will lose membership. They completely reject the premise of the M Sport models. The BMW X5M and X6M, and now the X3M and X4M qualify for membership but the 3 Series M340i, the 4 Series M440i, the M850i, the Z4 M40i don't, even though M GmbH has had a hand in their design. "It's not a REAL M!" they cry.

That's why all the lamentation...
__________________
The Coupe: 2016 M4 | Sakhir Orange | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | More | ED 5/13/16
The Sedan: 2018 M3 | San Marino Blue | Black Full Merino Leather | CF Trim | M-DCT | ZCP | ED 7/18/18
The Roadster: 2006 Z4 | Interlagos Blue | Black Extended Nappa Leather | Carbon Leather Trim | Purchased 7/19/12

Appreciate 1
hans007604.50
      06-11-2019, 10:24 AM   #34
DPelletier
Lieutenant
Canada
675
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 Z4 M40i  [7.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD ///M4 View Post
"As a relatively new BMW owner...". Herein lies the problem in your perception. To long-time BMW enthusiasts, particularly those who have owned E30, E36, E46, E9x, and now F8x M3/M4s, there are certain things that "make an M an M". Foremost, in the past mind you, an M car has to have, above all, a bespoke engine, an engine that isn't available in any other model. It has to have "aero mirrors", it has to have quad exhaust pipes. There have been other criteria, such having an inline six (even though the E30 had a inline four) and the heresy of having a V8 in the E9x M3, or having turbos in the F8x M3/M4. "The previous models didn't have that!" they cry.

When the 3 Series split off the 4 Series, and the M4 was introduced, there were people who said that they were going to put an M3 badge on their M4, because the M3 is the only "true" M3, even though the E46 M3 was a coupe and wasn't offered in a sedan.

When the M2 was introduced people were having a fit because it didn't have a bespoke M engine, and it didn't have "M mirrors", so it wasn't a "real M", according to some...

There is a somewhat snobby, elitist group whose membership criteria demands that the member own an M car, and they check the VIN. If it doesn't start with "WBS" or isn't a Z3 or Z4 M Roadster/Coupe, you can't join. You're even warned that if you ever sell your "real" M car, you will lose membership. They completely reject the premise of the M Sport models. The BMW X5M and X6M, and now the X3M and X4M qualify for membership but the 3 Series M340i, the 4 Series M340i, the M850i, the Z4 M40i don't, even though M GmbH has had a hand in their design. "It's not a REAL M!" they cry.

That's why all the lamentation...
Understood.....but I'm not sure that it's MY perception that is the problem! ;-)


Cheers,
Dave
Appreciate 0
      06-11-2019, 05:54 PM   #35
gblansten
Brigadier General
gblansten's Avatar
1913
Rep
4,171
Posts

Drives: 23 Tesla S Plaid
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Thick ascending limb

iTrader: (0)

I'm on my third M vehicle...the dreaded and loathed X5M. It is hard for me to relate to worrying about whether a Z4 M40i is a true M car. To me it isn't and I don't care. I'm seriously considering one when my lease is up at the end of the year. And if I get one I think I will enjoy the hell out of it. It would be my second convertible and I loved having one the first time. True M status won't make a difference to me. I do admit that if they offered a Z4M I would probably get that one for the extra presumed performance. But the Z4 M40i looks like a hell of a car.
Appreciate 1
      06-11-2019, 06:23 PM   #36
DPelletier
Lieutenant
Canada
675
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 Z4 M40i  [7.00]
When I was shopping for a new car and was comparing Boxsters, F types, SLC's, Z4's etc. it never occurred to me to throw the "but it isn't a real M car" thought into the decision making process.....instead, I went with the car I felt had the best combination of looks, power, dynamics and other features I liked. The Mercedes crowd is equally quick to point out that my GLC43AMG or the SLC43AMG "aren't real AMG's", though I have to say the BMW crowd takes the cake for the sheer level of contempt.

If I worried about how people perceived how "special" my car was, I'd probably have purchased another F type or Mercedes instead.

Dave
Appreciate 2
gblansten1913.00
      06-14-2019, 08:46 PM   #37
CeEl
Major
United_States
478
Rep
1,250
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2024 BMW X5 M60  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
But the Z4 M40i looks like a hell of a car.
Doesn’t just look like a hell of a car ... drives like one, too! I enjoy it more and more every day and/or trip.
Appreciate 0
      06-15-2019, 08:04 AM   #38
Tedbay
Private First Class
107
Rep
126
Posts

Drives: '17 Acura NSX, '20 BMW Z4M40i
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: San Ramon, CA

iTrader: (0)

I find the is it an M or not kinda stupid. I mean an M on an SUV but then to call the M40i not an M? to me that just gets away from the heritage sticking that on an SUV (and no disrespect it has m worthy performance clearly). BMW since the last true inline 6 like in my 2007 Z4 M Coupe has diluted the meaning of all these cars and now to me its about how it feels, makes me feel, how it drives, etc as the M criteria are no longer distinctively clear. If it gives me M pleasure I don't care about all this "mines an M and yours is not". That same series M3 was also amazing. The truest M's to me will always be all the M3's from beginning to end - small fast light sport sedans with power and just meant to drive. It's an icon. Excited for the upcoming car when it arrives in September and just glad BMW is building a Z4 with great performance, upgraded performance, that you can FEEL and tech options, etc. That's a win for us all - regardless what it is called. If its fast and a blast to drive and makes you smile that's what its all about. Based on other cars I have been looking at too BTW I feel this car is a great bargain/value price-wise. Lots of fun for the $.
Appreciate 1
      06-15-2019, 11:50 AM   #39
DPelletier
Lieutenant
Canada
675
Rep
556
Posts

Drives: 2020 Z4 M40i
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 Z4 M40i  [7.00]
Well said, Tedbay. :-)

Dave
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16 PM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST