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      03-10-2020, 03:03 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
Cause of globalism,

The ppl who runthese giant corps are all cultists of the globalist credo, they get cheap labour and tax incentives from the host govts

But nothing is done for the ppl of the host country, only ppl like bolshevik Bernie and pelosi and ofc corn pop biden get to wet their beaks

But the product itself gets lost in translation

And if having an "M" car is such a big deal, and means something, then i dont think this mexico plant will translate into the M lvl of quality ppl expect, not like it used to anyway
Bernie Sanders has voted against basically all free trade agreements. One of his top campaign points is prioritization of American workers and keeping jobs in America. I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but liberals and conservatives who aren't the top 0.1% shouldn't be fighting. Social issues are simply used as a wedge by global elites to divert our attention to massive wealth inequality. Most of us are probably in various stages of the upper middle class and it's easy to ignore. But to claim that Bernie Sanders is a globalist? Man you obviously have no idea who he is. He's one of the only politicians running for president (including Trump) that has had a rock solid stance on American workers and free trade.
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      03-10-2020, 03:05 PM   #90
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BMW: Hey guys, we've listened to our enthusiast base and we are going to produce another M2. We're going to use a true BMW M S engine from the beginning this time. Oh, and because we heard you, we are going to make it RWD and offer a manual transmission!

Forum: Mexico???!!!!

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      03-10-2020, 03:07 PM   #91
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A short drive in any rattle box Fxx series ought to dispel any notion that German built cars are of some superior quality.

Oh, your current OFHG needs replaced at 40k miles? Lets ignore that and worry about Mexican culture destroying build quality.


And anecdotally, the crew of Mexican gentlemen that remodeled my kitchen worked 10x as hard and with more care than the Aryan looking plumber that didnt haul away the old plumbing and left it on my deck for me to dispose, took a number of installation shortcuts...one of which burst and caused a massive leak in my ceiling causing all sorts of water damage, finished the job over a week later than promised, and then tried to bill me for work that he didnt even do.

So lets not paint cultures with broad brushes...
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      03-10-2020, 03:11 PM   #92
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Wow, what happened here?

Can we all just agree on these facts:

1) Having a Manual M2 in 2023 is great
2) Takata effed up
3) Turns out it's humid in Mexico
4) Few folks here may own MAGA hats
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      03-10-2020, 03:33 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
What's cute is your ignorance. Yes, workers in German factories actually take a lot of pride in their work. It breaks your heart, I know.
Lets see things play out after the new USMCA. Manufacturing in Mexico will certainly be changing over the next few years. Mexican plant workers will now be getting $16/hr vs the current average of $3.14/hr. The required content of auto parts made in North America goes up to 75%. Mexico gov is also allowing workers to form collective bargaining agreements, creating a more friendly union working environment. Vehicles produced in Mexico will be made to high standards with more parts coming from NA and workers will certainly have higher moral/pride producing their products due to the higher wages.
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      03-10-2020, 03:36 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
BMW: Hey guys, we've listened to our enthusiast base and we are going to produce another M2. We're going to use a true BMW M S engine from the beginning this time. Oh, and because we heard you, we are going to make it RWD and offer a manual transmission!

Forum: Mexico???!!!!


For real, I predict "Made in Mexico" will be the only perceived flaw and go-to punching bag for the next M2. But whatever, I don't care if it's assembled in West BumbleFuck, I want one with that S58 motor!

I'm surprise so many members here don't even try to suppress their ignorance and prejudice, they just let it flow. #Sad

Ensuring quality built of a product is strictly a management issue, not a geographic or cultural one. If the workers are trained and motivated properly, you could build a BMW just about anywhere. One could argue that some countries have better "work ethics" than others but here again, good management picks the cream of the crop and trains them.

In the USA, around World War II, Cadillac hired workers (mostly women) from the absolutely poorest sections of Detroit and they built precision bomb sights with great success. It was one of the first uses of film strips to train workers in step by step assembly.

So to the narrow-minded folks here that only see things in black and white, just remember, it's a big world out there, with good and bad employees on both sides..
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      03-10-2020, 03:42 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Bernie Sanders has voted against basically all free trade agreements. One of his top campaign points is prioritization of American workers and keeping jobs in America. I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but liberals and conservatives who aren't the top 0.1% shouldn't be fighting. Social issues are simply used as a wedge by global elites to divert our attention to massive wealth inequality. Most of us are probably in various stages of the upper middle class and it's easy to ignore. But to claim that Bernie Sanders is a globalist? Man you obviously have no idea who he is. He's one of the only politicians running for president (including Trump) that has had a rock solid stance on American workers and free trade.
According to Bernie, all you, and everybody will, and should ever be, is a 'worker'

Theres no bosses in benies worldview

Except ofc for himself you see, he has 3 homes, rides in audis , private jets, but thats all for him and his family you see, just ignore what he is doing for himself and just focus on your gray , dreary future of being a worker doing your 8-10hrs a day.
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      03-10-2020, 03:47 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Wow, what happened here?

Can we all just agree on these facts:

1) Having a Manual M2 in 2023 is great
2) Takata effed up
3) Turns out it's humid in Mexico
4) Few folks here may own MAGA hats
Super excited about the manual transmission, nothing a bunch of bigots can say to dampen my enthusiasm.
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      03-10-2020, 03:48 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
According to Bernie, all you, and everybody will, and should ever be, is a 'worker'

Theres no bosses in benies worldview

Except ofc for himself you see, he has 3 homes, rides in audis , private jets, but thats all for him and his family you see, just ignore what he is doing for himself and just focus on your gray , dreary future of being a worker doing your 8-10hrs a day.
Isn't there an off topic area where you can blow your load?
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      03-10-2020, 03:52 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the storm breaks View Post
Poor design by Takata was obviously a major contributing factor. Here is the NHTSA's official root cause statement:
In the subject Takata inflators, the non-desiccated PSAN propellant is affected by repeated high temperature cycling in the presence of moisture and it is contained in an inflator assembly that does not adequately prevent moisture intrusion under conditions of high humidity.

So the switch to ammonium nitrate + temp + lack of a desiccant material added + moisture = failure

There were reports however of the initial exposure to moisture being traced back to the Mexico plant, "An investigation later showed that manufacturing issues at Takata’s Mexico facility introduced excessive moisture into the inflator during assembly, leading to the problem."

Another quote about that facility, "According to documents reviewed by Reuters, Takata says that rust, bad welds, and even chewing gum dropped into at least one inflator are also at fault. The same documents show that in 2002, Takata’s plant in Mexico allowed a defect rate that was “six to eight times above” acceptable limits, or roughly 60 to 80 defective parts for every 1 million airbag inflators shipped. The company’s study has yet to reach a final conclusion and report the findings to NHTSA."

Please don't take offense, just trying to get some additional facts out there on the subject. BTW, if you look up photos of the San Luis Potosi plant, many of the people look German to me anyway, but maybe I shouldn't assume
Shock of shocks. Takata is trying to blame someone else! Unbelievable.
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      03-10-2020, 03:52 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
For real, I predict "Made in Mexico" will be the only perceived flaw and go-to punching bag for the next M2. But whatever, I don't care if it's assembled in West BumbleFuck, I want one with that S58 motor!
That, and a 6MT RWD.

Quote:
Ensuring quality built of a product is strictly a management issue, not a geographic or cultural one. If the workers are trained and motivated properly, you could build a BMW just about anywhere. One could argue that some countries have better "work ethics" than others but here again, good management picks the cream of the crop and trains them.

In the USA, around World War II, Cadillac hired workers (mostly women) from the absolutely poorest sections of Detroit and they built precision bomb sights with great success. It was one of the first uses of film strips to train workers in step by step assembly.

So to the narrow-minded folks here that only see things in black and white, just remember, it's a big world out there, with good and bad employees on both sides..
Somewhat related, Elon Musk told his workers at the Boca Chica SpaceX plant when things went too slow: '"You can hire people—just know your reputation is on the line. Don’t bring your brother-in-law who can’t ever get a job." [...] All told, the company added 252 people to its South Texas Launch Site on that Sunday and Monday. It doubled the workforce, just like that, to more than 500 workers.'

And they are building space ships over there.

source: https://arstechnica.com/science/2020...d-settle-mars/

Last edited by mbanck; 03-10-2020 at 04:13 PM..
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      03-10-2020, 04:05 PM   #100
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      03-10-2020, 04:17 PM   #101
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Super Troopers?
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      03-10-2020, 04:18 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
You're saying developing nations like Mexico have a culture that doesn't allow them to care about their work and don't view quality in the same way as developed countries. If developed nations with large auto industries like Germany, Japan, and America have such high standards and CARE so much about what they do, then why would they trust some dirty developing nation workers to assemble their cars?

If I cared so much about my products, then would I entrust someone I knew doesn't have high standards to build them?
What you're forgetting is that quality differs amongst developed nations, as well. So what makes you think it wouldn't differ between developed and developing ones? - From first hand experience, I can tell you that it does. And it's more cultural than it is racial or even skill-related.

Also, don't confuse high standards with America. Americans have some of the lowest standards in the world. Not just when it comes to automobiles, but also when it comes to food, health, clothes, housing, etc. Historically, there were only several countries known for producing the very best machinery in the world: Germany and Japan.

USA was never quite in the picture. So I'm not surprised to see that you and others in this thread can't distinguish quality from crap. USA's definition of "quality" has been Cadillac and Ford. And more recently, Tesla. In other words, lacking for decades now. And getting worse by the day.
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      03-10-2020, 04:20 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs View Post
According to Bernie, all you, and everybody will, and should ever be, is a 'worker'

Theres no bosses in benies worldview

Except ofc for himself you see, he has 3 homes, rides in audis , private jets, but thats all for him and his family you see, just ignore what he is doing for himself and just focus on your gray , dreary future of being a worker doing your 8-10hrs a day.
That's ridiculous. That is in no way grounded in the reality of his political stance.

He is by far the "poorest" person running for president. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this thread who are worth significantly more than Sanders. His net worth of $2M (at his age) makes him barely upper middle class. The top 0.1% could throw away $2M without a second thought. Much of his net worth is tied to his government pension, his homes, and very recent book sales. Not exactly a Rockefeller.
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      03-10-2020, 04:29 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
What you're forgetting is that quality differs amongst developed nations, as well. So what makes you think it wouldn't differ between developed and developing ones? - From first hand experience, I can tell you that it does. And it's more cultural than it is racial or even skill-related.

Also, don't confuse high standards with America. Americans have some of the lowest standards in the world. Not just when it comes to automobiles, but also when it comes to food, health, clothes, housing, etc. Historically, there were only several countries known for producing the very best machinery in the world: Germany and Japan.

USA was never quite in the picture. So I'm not surprised to see that you and others in this thread can't distinguish quality from crap. USA's definition of "quality" has been Cadillac and Ford. And more recently, Tesla. In other words, lacking for decades now. And getting worse by the day.
Forget I said America. Answer my underlying question:

According to you Mexican culture precludes them from caring about their work or having high standards. How could Germans, who according to you, are a people who culturally care so much about their products and have such high standards, entrust Mexicans to build their cars if that were the case? Wouldn't that inherently mean Germans don't actually care about their own products then?
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      03-10-2020, 04:30 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Vehicles produced in Mexico will be made to high standards with more parts coming from NA and workers will certainly have higher moral/pride producing their products due to the higher wages.
History says otherwise. The Jetta became one of the least reliable cars the world has ever seen the minute production moved to Mexico.

So stop assuming. You cannot equate sudden pay increase with higher moral/pride. It doesn't work that way. But you wouldn't know because, like most people in this country, you believe that everything can be solved with money. Never-mind how people were raised and how their societal values and priorities differ from yours.
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      03-10-2020, 04:40 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
History says otherwise. The Jetta became one of the least reliable cars the world has ever seen the minute production moved to Mexico.

So stop assuming. You cannot equate sudden pay increase with higher moral/pride. It doesn't work that way. But you wouldn't know because, like most people in this country, you believe that everything can be solved with money. Never-mind how people were raised and how their societal values and priorities differ from yours.
You've said that before. Do you have any evidence to support that statement?
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      03-10-2020, 04:40 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
According to you Mexican culture precludes them from caring about their work or having high standards. How could Germans, who according to you, are a people who culturally care so much about their products and have such high standards, entrust Mexicans to build their cars if that were the case? Wouldn't that inherently mean Germans don't actually care about their own products then?
I already answered it. You're confusing work culture with profits. What does one have to do with the other?

BMW is a business. The goal of every business is the same: profits. Above all else. So yes, they will entrust Mexicans to build their cars if it means they make more money in the end. They can scan through this thread and come to the realization that they could build this car anywhere by sacrificing quality because people like you will still buy it.

BMW knows that, on average, Americans aren't very picky about quality. After living in Europe, I can tell you that the standards are generally higher here. Therefore, why not save a buck or two and build the car in Mexico? - Americans will buy anything. That's typically the saying you hear when you travel abroad.

How you came to the conclusion that Germans don't take great care and pride in building their products is beyond me.
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      03-10-2020, 04:52 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
You've said that before. Do you have any evidence to support that statement?
Oh yes, I owned several of them

Experience trumps bro science. I owned two Jetta's in the US back in the 90's and early 00's. As a broke college student, this was the closest things to a "European" car I could afford. Still, they were the most unreliable pieces of shit in existence compared to even my Vento ("Jetta" in Europe). Not only that. Cost cutting was insanely apparent. Parts of the interior were literally converted to trash-like plastic material that was made to resemble leather.

Moving factories does a lot more than just moving production.
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      03-10-2020, 04:54 PM   #109
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Oh yes, I owned several of them

Experience trumps bro science. I owned two Jetta's in the US back in the 90's and early 00's. They were the most unreliable pieces of shit in existence compared to even my Vento ("Jetta" in Europe). Not only that. Cost cutting was insanely apparent. Parts of the interior were literally converted to trash-like plastic material that was made to resemble leather.

Moving factories does a lot more than just moving production.
Nothing trumps science. Experience on such a small scale is nothing but anecdotal evidence. A very large data set is what determines whether something is truly reliable or not. I'm sure there's someone out there that has owned a lemon Toyota Camry. Does that mean Camrys are unreliable and "experience trumps science"?

VWs have always been unreliable. Are you honestly trying to say they used to be reliable cars? Certainly not in my lifetime.
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      03-10-2020, 04:56 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by ///Mac View Post
I already answered it. You're confusing work culture with profits. What does one have to do with the other?

BMW is a business. The goal of every business is the same: profits. Above all else. So yes, they will entrust Mexicans to build their cars if it means they make more money in the end. They can scan through this thread and come to the realization that they could build this car anywhere by sacrificing quality because people like you will still buy it.

BMW knows that, on average, Americans aren't very picky about quality. After living in Europe, I can tell you that the standards are generally higher here. Therefore, why not save a buck or two and build the car in Mexico? - Americans will buy anything. That's typically the saying you hear when you travel abroad.

How you came to the conclusion that Germans don't take great care and pride in building their products is beyond me.
You're completely misunderstanding my question. It's all hypothetical. I'm not claiming anything.

Regardless, I'm dropping it.
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