[Z K]

Originally Posted by Prazision

255s up front and 235s in the rear? only reason I am not interested.

In a lot of competition FWD cars, they set it up like that to help with understeer.

I'm guessing Audi did it on a AWD car to reduce understeer as well.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Z K

In a lot of competition FWD cars, they set it up like that to help with understeer.

I'm guessing Audi did it on a AWD car to reduce understeer as well.

Exactly. I'd bet most non-M BMWs with staggered setups understeer significantly more than an RS3.

Addressing the dynamic problems of a car's setup seems like a pretty out there reason to avoid buying a car.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Exactly. I'd bet most non-M BMWs with staggered setups understeer significantly more than an RS3.

Addressing the dynamic problems of a car's setup seems like a pretty out there reason to avoid buying a car.

Here's the thing with the RS3. It's inherently prone to issues w FWD setup. So they traction control tire setup all that stuff is meant to overcome those drawbacks.

All architecture/design decisions have pros and cons. You pick one then do what you can to minimize the cons.

Same reason a Cayman is inherently more stable than a 911 or a turbo 6 cyl maybe better choice than an 8.

The RS3 is a wonderful car, I've driven one. It's just not the car I'd pick for a track day if I had other options.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Exactly. I'd bet most non-M BMWs with staggered setups understeer significantly more than an RS3.

Addressing the dynamic problems of a car's setup seems like a pretty out there reason to avoid buying a car.

Very good and valid points. Most cars have understeer to some degree as it is generally accepted as safer...just some cars you have to push a bit harder to find it.

The tire set up is actually quite good and does exactly what it's supposed to. Most of us are just more accustomed to having wider tires in the rear. Audi not only took nearly 60 lbs off the front axel by way of a lighter engine, but they transversely mounted the engine moving weight rearward, and recalibrate s the AWD for more rear bias. All in all, quite a dynamic car to go along with its supercer sounding engine and exhaust note.

I'd venture I don't notice much difference so far in front end grip between my RS3 and M4, but the RS3 does exude much more confidence in rear end grip.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Exactly. I'd bet most non-M BMWs with staggered setups understeer significantly more than an RS3.

Addressing the dynamic problems of a car's setup seems like a pretty out there reason to avoid buying a car.

Very good and valid points. Most cars have understeer to some degree as it is generally accepted as safer...just some cars you have to push a bit harder to find it.

The tire set up is actually quite good and does exactly what it's supposed to. Most of us are just more accustomed to having wider tires in the rear. Audi not only took nearly 60 lbs off the front axel by way of a lighter engine, but they transversely mounted the engine moving weight rearward, and recalibrate s the AWD for more rear bias. All in all, quite a dynamic car to go along with its supercer sounding engine and exhaust note.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Here's the thing with the RS3. It's inherently prone to issues w FWD setup. So they traction control tire setup all that stuff is meant to overcome those drawbacks.

All architecture/design decisions have pros and cons. You pick one then do what you can to minimize the cons.

Same reason a Cayman is inherently more stable than a 911 or a turbo 6 cyl maybe better choice than an 8.

The RS3 is a wonderful car, I've driven one. It's just not the car I'd pick for a track day if I had other options.

I agree, I'd love the RS3 for every day driving and the occasional fun mountain drive and longer road trip. But I would not want it for a track day. There's much more fun cars with more driver involvement than the RS3.

There were a few test articles of the RS3 vs the M2 and most of the reviewers picked the M2 over the RS3.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Z K

I agree, I'd love the RS3 for every day driving and the occasional fun mountain drive and longer road trip. But I would not want it for a track day. There's much more fun cars with more driver involvement than the RS3.

There were a few test articles of the RS3 vs the M2 and most of the reviewers picked the M2 over the RS3.

Yeah I'd pick an M2 over an RS3. But not as my only car in the northeast. And not if I had to get a kiddo in and out of the back seat.

Let's be honest here, we are splitting hairs then splitting the split hairs. Both great cars possibly 2 best avail under $100k for this type of thing. Just go with whatever suits your needs better.

It's like a compromise continuum. For smaller cars start with a lotus or GT4 then go to an M2 then an RS3 etc etc and you just buy the first one that you can tolerate as a DD.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Z K

I agree, I'd love the RS3 for every day driving and the occasional fun mountain drive and longer road trip. But I would not want it for a track day. There's much more fun cars with more driver involvement than the RS3.

There were a few test articles of the RS3 vs the M2 and most of the reviewers picked the M2 over the RS3.

I don't think they've done any compares yet with the new RS3. Do you have any links? I have only seen but one review from MT which they say the RS3 is at least as engaging if not more so than the M2. The RS3 is certainly a league above in terms of performance based on the numbers I've seen so far.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/audi/...-drive-review/

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

If you're considering an S3, I'd tell you to spend the little bit extra and get an RS3. Not only does it look the part (though I wish they pulled the rear fender even more) it is quite a special car with that intoxicatingly soulful and powerful 5 cylinder at the center of it all.

RS3 is great....BUT....similarly equipped the MSRP is approx. $10k more than an S3....AND dealers will get aggresive on the S3 whereas the RS3 they won't.

Brings the overall delta to more like $15k, which is a 30% premium versus the S3.

A little tough to justify for the fifth cylinder when a quick flash tune will bring the S3 to similar performance levels.

Both great cars.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

RS3 is great....BUT....similarly equipped the MSRP is approx. $10k more than an S3....AND dealers will get aggresive on the S3 whereas the RS3 they won't.

Brings the overall delta to more like $15k, which is a 30% premium versus the S3.

A little tough to justify for the fifth cylinder when a quick flash tune will bring the S3 to similar performance levels.

Both great cars.

Keep in mind that RS3 will hold its value a heck of a lot better than an S3. So your $15k doesn't stay $15k when it's time to sell.

[angelr]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Keep in mind that RS3 will hold its value a heck of a lot better than an S3. So your $15k doesn't stay $15k when it's time to sell.

And the RS3 can be flashed too...making it even betterer

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I don't think they've done any compares yet with the new RS3. Do you have any links? I have only seen but one review from MT which they say the RS3 is at least as engaging if not more so than the M2. The RS3 is certainly a league above in terms of performance based on the numbers I've seen so far.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/audi/...-drive-review/

Not in the US, but the RS3 has been out for a while longer in Europe.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-rev...rs-vs-audi-rs3

You can find other reviews on youtube and other places online as well.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Z K

Not in the US, but the RS3 has been out for a while longer in Europe.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-rev...rs-vs-audi-rs3

You can find other reviews on youtube and other places online as well.

That is the old RS3, not the new 8V...which is why you see 362 hp and not 400 hp. The other 'reviews' I've seen are the same..old car. Plus the new one JUST started getting delivered so an article from 2016 wouldn't be the right car.
They made material changes to a lot of the car; the engine, suspension, tires, AWD system (more rear bias) and it's really a very different car which is why you see MT saying it's a more engaging car. I almost bought an M2, but glad I ended up with the RS3, it's that good and makes a fantastic daily...though I've been trying to get as much time on my 899 Panigale in before it's too cold.

[Mr Carrots]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

That is the old RS3, not the new 8V...which is why you see 362 hp and not 400 hp. The other 'reviews' I've seen are the same..old car. Plus the new one JUST started getting delivered so an article from 2016 wouldn't be the right car.
They made material changes to a lot of the car; the engine, suspension, tires, AWD system (more rear bias) and it's really a very different car which is why you see MT saying it's a more engaging car. I almost bought an M2, but glad I ended up with the RS3, it's that good and makes a fantastic daily...though I've been trying to get as much time on my 899 Panigale in before it's too cold.

I really wanted one but Audi took too damn long in bringing it to the US and I needed a car

The M2 without the S55 was never a consideration for me, but the 2018 CS should rectify the current cars seriously underpowered issues. Would you trade your RS3 for an s55 powered m2 if it made financial sense?

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

I really wanted one but Audi took too damn long in bringing it to the US and I needed a car

The M2 without the S55 was never a consideration for me, but the 2018 CS should rectify the current cars seriously underpowered issues. Would you trade your RS3 for an s55 powered m2 if it made financial sense?

Audi did take a while, but they delivered a hell of a car.

I would not trade my RS3 for an s55 powered M2. Reason being, I had an M4 (now sold) and loathe the sound of the S55. Strong engine with no character. The sound alone ruins the car in many ways whereas the RS3 sounds incredible. Another thing, the quality of the M2 vs RS3, the RS3 is far better put together. I also am not sold on the M2s exterior styling. And lastly, unless they seriously change the way the S55 makes power and figure out a way to make a decent suspension, the M2 with that engine will be just as unhinged and traction limited as the M4 is. Yes I know it’s gotten better but still far away from where it should be given the cost and what cars in its segment are doing, not to mention many cheaper cars doing it better (GT350, Camaro, C7).

As far as the M2 CS, I would guess these will be going for quite a bit (80k?) and BMW loses me at prices where you can actually buy a really competent and better car in all regards. There are far better and faster cars for both less (ZL1, Grand Sport) and more money (911, 718). I thought the M2 was a more enjoyable car to drive than the M4, but just didn’t do much for me in the grand scheme of things.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

I was going to get an S3. The lease rates are bad. You'll be able to get an S4/S5 for the same price. That's why I ended up with an S5 Coupe.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

I was going to get an S3. The lease rates are bad. You'll be able to get an S4/S5 for the same price. That's why I ended up with an S5 Coupe.

Not when we got ours, which was in June of this year. Residuals were higher on the S4/S5, but dealers were less apt to discount on S4/S5 and of course the capitalized cost was higher. Money factor was also higher on the S4/S5.

Our loaded S3 is $480 per month, $0 drive offs. An S4 was about $150-180 more per month if memory serves.

I think residuals have gone down slightly on both models since then.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by blschaefer1

Not when we got ours, which was in June of this year. Residuals were higher on the S4/S5, but dealers were less apt to discount on S4/S5 and of course the capitalized cost was higher. Money factor was also higher on the S4/S5.

Our loaded S3 is $480 per month, $0 drive offs. An S4 was about $150-180 more per month if memory serves.

I think residuals have gone down slightly on both models since then.

Slightly is an understatement. the residual on the S3 in June was 60%. It is now 49%. The S4's residual is now 62% as well.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

Slightly is an understatement. the residual on the S3 in June was 60%. It is now 49%. The S4's residual is now 62% as well.

Not attempting to get into a senseless debate, but in June the residual for an S3 Premium+ was 54% for a 36/10 lease, money factor 0.001. Currently same car, 2018 model, is 50% with MF at 0.00096.

2018 S4 Premium+ 36/10 is 60%, MF .00107.

Dealers clearly had some back-end incentives on S3's that didn't exist for the S4/S5 too.

All the above according to the pricing threads on the Edmunds forums which I use and trust for this information.

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussio...-and-prices/p4

Regardless, yes, S3 residuals have gone down in comparison to the S4/S5, perhaps due to the new platform on those cars?

In the Audi line, the SQ5 has the highest residual I have found. Was thinking of getting one early next year, I hope the residuals hold up until then.

It does seem that residuals are heading generally lower for all brands. Too much CPO inventory and used prices heading lower?

[Red Bread]

Worth reading the Nov Car and Driver if you're debating an SQ5, they're certainly not a fan compared to the Macan S or MB GLE43.

[Mr. Liu]

I was actually shopping for a new DD back in June/July. Something small and fun. Test drove the S3 and I felt it was a bit too boy racerish, but it was indeed a cool little card. Ended up with a fully loaded PP+ A6 lease for about 575 a month, sticker was about 600. I remember the lease rates were pretty damn good.

[blschaefer1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Worth reading the Nov Car and Driver if you're debating an SQ5, they're certainly not a fan compared to the Macan S or MB GLE43.

Thanks for this. Never been a Merc guy but I will need to give the GLC43 a close look.