BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Off-Topic Discussions Board Politics/Religion I think Tesla will be gone in ten years

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-26-2017, 02:38 PM   #287
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
One should look at the Bolt example to see how public perception plays a role in sales.
The Bolt was the highest selling EV on the market in October 2017. It beat everything Tesla has COMBINED (S, X, 3). https://insideevs.com/october-2017-p...s-report-card/

http://mashable.com/2017/11/03/chevy.../#XffO0Oh2Qsq3

And it's a CHEVY- with no cult following lol

EDIT: IF you look at Bolt and Volt sales YTD 2017, Chevy is crushing Tesla. AND, the Bolt is profitable
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 02:41 PM   #288
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
7581
Rep
8,879
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
One should look at the Bolt example to see how public perception plays a role in sales.
LOL...Chevrolet.

That is not the company Telsa will be worried about.
That's not why I brought it up. Other car companies in the world already has made their entry into the EV market: Audi etron, E-Golf, BMWs i3, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, 500e etc. There is a distinct difference between them and Tesla. Tesla is "cool". It's desired. The Bolt looks like a goofy economy EV. The i3, as much as I love mine, looks like a goofy EV. The e-Golf looks like a Golf. I don't think that's what people want. They just want to feel and look good driving it. Why pay more for an e-Golf when it looks like the cheaper, more practical Golf? Why pay for an i3 when it looks that goofy? Why get something as goofy as a Bolt when you can hold out for the ultra desired and cool Model 3? It excites, it stirs up conversations, it handles and performs like a sports car?

It's got juice on it, and that's more than a lot of established companies can say.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i

Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 02:43 PM   #289
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
7581
Rep
8,879
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
One should look at the Bolt example to see how public perception plays a role in sales.
The Bolt was the highest selling EV on the market in October 2017. It beat everything Tesla has COMBINED (S, X, 3). https://insideevs.com/october-2017-p...s-report-card/

http://mashable.com/2017/11/03/chevy.../#XffO0Oh2Qsq3

And it's a CHEVY- with no cult following lol

EDIT: IF you look at Bolt and Volt sales YTD 2017, Chevy is crushing Tesla. AND, the Bolt is profitable
Considering that Tesla has no current available offerings in the Bolt price range, why is this a relevant statistic?
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i

Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 02:49 PM   #290
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
One should look at the Bolt example to see how public perception plays a role in sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Considering that Tesla has no current available offerings in the Bolt price range, why is this a relevant statistic?
To comment on your other statement above. Bolt seems to have favorable public reception and it shows by being the industry leader in EV sales last month. Regardless, Chevy was able to sell the Bolt at $35k and still make a profit. Tesla charges $100k and is upside down.
Appreciate 1
feuer3042.50

      11-26-2017, 02:53 PM   #291
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
That's not why I brought it up. Other car companies in the world already has made their entry into the EV market: Audi etron, E-Golf, BMWs i3, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt, 500e etc. There is a distinct difference between them and Tesla. Tesla is "cool". It's desired. The Bolt looks like a goofy economy EV. The i3, as much as I love mine, looks like a goofy EV. The e-Golf looks like a Golf. I don't think that's what people want. They just want to feel and look good driving it. Why pay more for an e-Golf when it looks like the cheaper, more practical Golf? Why pay for an i3 when it looks that goofy? Why get something as goofy as a Bolt when you can hold out for the ultra desired and cool Model 3? It excites, it stirs up conversations, it handles and performs like a sports car?

It's got juice on it, and that's more than a lot of established companies can say.
So you are telling me the Tesla Model X is not goofy? That thing looks like a rolling mouse with it's mouth wired shut.

Regardless, the funny looking Chevys and Toyotas seem to be selling.
Appreciate 1
feuer3042.50

      11-26-2017, 03:06 PM   #292
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
3249
Rep
8,235
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
It always amuses me how folks look at Tesla cars as the actual product. It's like arguing that Ferrari doesn't make money on F1.

This isn't about the cars, it's the charging network, solar and battery infrastructure, not the cars. Not that the Model 3 won't derail all of this if they can't get it sorted out, but this has never been about profit per unit.
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 03:30 PM   #293
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It always amuses me how folks look at Tesla cars as the actual product. It's like arguing that Ferrari doesn't make money on F1.

This isn't about the cars, it's the charging network, solar and battery infrastructure, not the cars. Not that the Model 3 won't derail all of this if they can't get it sorted out, but this has never been about profit per unit.
Care to share their sales on their other products? How are they doing?
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 04:09 PM   #294
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
3249
Rep
8,235
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It always amuses me how folks look at Tesla cars as the actual product. It's like arguing that Ferrari doesn't make money on F1.

This isn't about the cars, it's the charging network, solar and battery infrastructure, not the cars. Not that the Model 3 won't derail all of this if they can't get it sorted out, but this has never been about profit per unit.
Care to share their sales on their other products? How are they doing?
It's strategy. It doesn't have to make sense today, but simply needs to pay out in the future. Think of ac vs dc current. DC led the race for decades, but no one uses it now and the investors who plowed money into ac setups while folks called them crazy got the last laugh.

Tesla getting a few of the developing major brands into their Supercharger network and the benefits of their household batteries and solar panels being immediately available to those consumers will exponentially grow sales. Plus they've had the benefit of beta testing all of those technologies on their current, rabid fans, rather than normal consumers with higher expectations.
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 05:41 PM   #295
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It's strategy. It doesn't have to make sense today, but simply needs to pay out in the future. Think of ac vs dc current. DC led the race for decades, but no one uses it now and the investors who plowed money into ac setups while folks called them crazy got the last laugh.

Tesla getting a few of the developing major brands into their Supercharger network and the benefits of their household batteries and solar panels being immediately available to those consumers will exponentially grow sales. Plus they've had the benefit of beta testing all of those technologies on their current, rabid fans, rather than normal consumers with higher expectations.
So, no real sales data. No actual production. No economies of scale. Just all ideas.

Don't get me wrong. I really want a Tesla Roof since I live in sunny Texas, but I've been on hold for about a year now. Already got it lined up with my insurance the next time there's a hail storm. But... nothing from Tesla, no product... all just an idea.

Edit: the more I think about Tesla, the more I think they are more a Think tank rather than an Auto company or technology company. They are the peacocks of the tech world, all show, no meat.
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 05:44 PM   #296
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
3249
Rep
8,235
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Absolutely agree that they're not delivering on schedule, which could very well derail any bigger plans than just cars. Cash burn has certainly killed many other big ideas.
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2017, 05:54 PM   #297
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Absolutely agree that they're not delivering on schedule, which could very well derail any bigger plans than just cars. Cash burn has certainly killed many other big ideas.
And that's my biggest issue with Tesla. They keep coming out with these grand, aspirational ideas which are very lucrative and enticing, BUT at the same time they can't get the production/manufacturing to meet those ideas. Why not focus on getting a few things right instead of spending time and resources on all these other ideas. In other words, hit the Model 3 out of the park by spitting those things out of the factory faster than any other company, do not put on a show and dance with the Roadster, Hyperloops, Solar Roof, cross country infrastructure... It's too much all at once. An 18 year old can understand the value of Tesla's ideas, but the hard part is executing.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2017, 03:12 AM   #298
jmg
Major General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
7581
Rep
8,879
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, I01 i3 REx LCI
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Absolutely agree that they're not delivering on schedule, which could very well derail any bigger plans than just cars. Cash burn has certainly killed many other big ideas.
And that's my biggest issue with Tesla. They keep coming out with these grand, aspirational ideas which are very lucrative and enticing, BUT at the same time they can't get the production/manufacturing to meet those ideas. Why not focus on getting a few things right instead of spending time and resources on all these other ideas. In other words, hit the Model 3 out of the park by spitting those things out of the factory faster than any other company, do not put on a show and dance with the Roadster, Hyperloops, Solar Roof, cross country infrastructure... It's too much all at once. An 18 year old can understand the value of Tesla's ideas, but the hard part is executing.
The simple answer is it's extremely difficult and expensive. For all his flaws, Musk is at least playing his cards right and keeping interest alive in Tesla where many other companies would have already failed. The fact that he can swing a 20 point drop one week to an almost full recovery weeks later shows that if nothing else Tesla has the tenacity and the sheer will to succeed.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i

Appreciate 0
      11-27-2017, 09:57 AM   #299
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The simple answer is it's extremely difficult and expensive. For all his flaws, Musk is at least playing his cards right and keeping interest alive in Tesla where many other companies would have already failed. The fact that he can swing a 20 point drop one week to an almost full recovery weeks later shows that if nothing else Tesla has the tenacity and the sheer will to succeed.
I think we all know that a Tesla's stock price is only loosely correlated to the performance of the company. Similar for many other companies.

It's easy to say Tesla is a grand company with great ideas, good products and much fanfare; it's more difficult to assess them as an Auto or Tech company because the picture ain't so bright.

Did Tesla reinvigorate the hype around EVs and start a fire under the industry's players? For sure. But, unless Tesla can capitalize (quick), their prepared lunch will be eaten by the other guys.

The difference between Elon and Steve Jobs is that Jobs knew how to make great products AND make a profit. Elon has had almost 15 years to do that with Tesla and still struggles. Maybe Elon should just focus on going to Mars or building Hyperloops lol
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2017, 10:08 AM   #300
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
956
Rep
1,726
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Right now Tesla is playing a Ponzi scheme with its new car deposits. The Ponzi artist becomes more and more brazen as he needs more money. Tesla's attempt to extract $50,000 deposits and $250,000 payments for its pie-in-the-sky sports car are merely a part of that scheme.

We can see it happening before our eyes. In 3-4 years the press will chronicle what we are seeing now and everyone will be aghast. But we don't have to be surprised by it. Musk is the new Fisker.
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 1
SakhirM49754.50

      11-27-2017, 11:16 AM   #301
Obioban
Emperor
973
Rep
2,331
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 04 M3iT , 01 M5, 17 i3
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2017 BMW i3  [0.00]
2005 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
2004 BMW M3 Wagon  [0.00]
2001 BMW M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Musk is the new Fisker.
Amusingly Musk hired Fisker years ago, and Fisker ripped Tesla off.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2017, 12:21 PM   #302
N52UNED
Lieutenant
N52UNED's Avatar
United_States
160
Rep
598
Posts

Drives: '07 328i/330BPC
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sunshine State

iTrader: (1)

Tesla being gone in 10 years isn't out of the realm of possibility ... but the probability is likely not. Although I do see a governmental bailout at some point.

Currently EV is the hottest topic in the car industry, and Tesla is showing that there's promise for the platform (Heck major manufacturers aren't putting their eggs into the Formula E for nothing). He's entrenching himself with states like Nevada where he's building his gigafactory, bringing thousands of good paying jobs to the area. Then there's the fact that breaking the nation's dependency on fossil fuels is a goal that this or any other nation is not willing to let go of anytime soon (regardless of the vehicles being better for the environment in the long run or not). This is where the bailout will come in.

.


What I do see as a definite issue that will slow the Tesla train is the lack of charging stations. Sure you can pump out a shit tonne of cars ... but if people have to jump through hoops to "refuel/recharge" this will definitely slow the company's growth potential over the next decade. Currently Tesla has a very small market segment, and unless charging stations become accessible in every town and multiple in larger markets ... the platform will stagnate. After a while buyers will become disenchanted with the platform.

At the current pricing ... Telsa's are quite expensive for being a One-Trick-Pony -- an "about town commuter's vehicle." Even if Tesla makes a car that is in the mid-$30k's ... that's still a lot of scratch for most consumers to pay for a limited use vehicle. For the same price someone can buy a fossil fuel burning vehicle that they can drive anywhere without having to plan the trip based upon proximity to charging stations ... as well as, the downtime it takes to recharge.

Then there's their buyer market ... tech orientated urbanites with higher household incomes that like to think they're environmentally conscious. Does anyone believe they're going to hold onto a 4-5 year old Tesla? Heck No! These cars are going to become as obsolete as an iPhone 4 in the same number of years. So now there's a question of their overall reliability and cost of maintenance that will directly impact their resale value. If no one wants a high mileage 5 year old Tesla ... Tesla will not grow. There's a reason why car dealerships sell used cars .... there's a much bigger market and higher profit margins. If no one wants a high mileage Tesla .... that will only hurt the brand.

In the next 10 years ... If Tesla's turn out to be as reliable as a '80's Hyundai Excel ... they're sunk. If they're too expensive to repair ... they're sunk. If there's no market for used high mile Tesla's ... they're sunk. Unless Tesla starts making their cars quicker to recharge and builds up their infrastructure of charging stations and repair shops ... they're going to stagnate and ultimately be bought out by one of the Big 3 (best case scenario).

Currently there's such a buzz about Tesla that the public and backers are overlooking these points ... but at some point they are going to come to the surface. Tesla's fate will really depend on being able to see and implement the big picture ... not just what's in front of him.

Tesla being gone in 10 years is a bit questionable .... but 15 is more likely, IMO.

Last edited by N52UNED; 11-27-2017 at 12:33 PM..
Appreciate 1
      11-27-2017, 12:33 PM   #303
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by N52UNED View Post
Tesla being gone in 10 years isn't out of the realm of possibility ... but the probability is likely not. Although I do see a governmental bailout at some point.

Currently EV is the hottest topic in the car industry, and Tesla is showing that there's promise for the platform. He's entrenching himself with states like Nevada where he's building his gigafactory, bringing thousands of good paying jobs to the area. Then there's the fact that breaking the nation's dependency on fossil fuels is a goal that this or any other nation is not willing to let go of anytime soon (regardless of the vehicles being better for the environment in the long run or not). This is where the bailout will come in.

Heck major manufacturers aren't putting their eggs into the Formula E for nothing.

What I do see as a definite issue that will slow the Tesla train is the lack of charging stations. Sure you can pump out a shit tonne of cars ... but if people have to jump through hoops to "refuel/recharge" this will definitely slow the company's growth potential over the next decade. Currently Tesla has a very small market segment, and unless charging stations become accessible in every town and multiple in larger markets ... the platform will stagnate. After a while buyers will become disenchanted with the platform.

At the current pricing ... Telsa's are quite expensive for being a One-Trick-Pony -- an "about town commuter's vehicle." Even if Tesla makes a car that is in the mid-$30k's ... that's still a lot of scratch for most consumers to pay for a limited use vehicle. For the same price someone can buy a fossil fuel burning vehicle that they can drive anywhere without having to plan the trip based upon proximity to charging stations ... as well as, the downtime it takes to recharge.

Then there's their buyer market ... tech orientated urbanites with higher household incomes that like to think they're environmentally conscious. Does anyone believe they're going to hold onto a 4-5 year old Tesla? Heck No! These cars are going to become as obsolete as an iPhone 4 in the same number of years. So now there's a question of their overall reliability, cost of maintenance, and resale value.

In the next 10 years ... If Tesla's turn out to be as reliable as a '80's Hyundai Excel ... they're sunk. If they're too expensive to repair ... they're sunk. If there's no market for used high mile Tesla's ... they're sunk. Unless Tesla starts making their cars quicker to recharge and builds up their infrastructure of charging stations and repair shops ... they're going to stagnate and ultimately be bought out by one of the Big 3 (best case scenario).

Tesla being gone in 10 years is a bit questionable .... but 15 is more likely, IMO.
All of the issues you point out are demand issues. IMO, Tesla's biggest issue is Supply and economies of scale to become profitable. No doubt there are a lot of people and governments that want EVs, but the companies that can produce EVs in numbers and sustainably will be the ones that win.

Cars/SUVs usually have 5-7 years between new generations, within the next few years when the big autos begin to profitably produce EVs and outsell Tesla with their new gen cars, that will be the demise of Tesla unless they turn their operations around.
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2017, 05:05 PM   #304
NickyC
Major General
NickyC's Avatar
5457
Rep
5,789
Posts

Drives: YMB M4, has a roof though. :(
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Now in Miami! :D

iTrader: (17)

Article on Tesla's build quality, or rather it's lack of.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...-checks-after-
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2017, 05:23 PM   #305
hi_officer
Private First Class
147
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: something fast
Join Date: May 2017
Location: somewhere slow

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Article on Tesla's build quality, or rather it's lack of.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...-checks-after-
I thought Musk just fired those employees...
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2017, 09:30 PM   #306
DETRoadster
Space Force - 4 Star General
DETRoadster's Avatar
5847
Rep
2,568
Posts

Drives: M2 MG 6MT / Moto Guzzi V7
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
The Bolt looks like a goofy economy EV.
As someone with a Leaf in the garage, I have to disagree with you. I think the Bolt is a damn good looking car. I don't know if I can bring myself to buy a Chevy but in 2 years when it's time to part with the Leaf, AKA the ugliest car on the road, the Bolt will be a serious contender.
Appreciate 1
jmg7581.00

      11-30-2017, 03:38 AM   #307
hellrotm
Major General
2935
Rep
6,321
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Article on Tesla's build quality, or rather it's lack of.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...-checks-after-
That is exactly why when cars like the new Porsche eMission hit dealerships, Telsa’s already small niche market will start to shrink. The build quality, materials, fit/finish will be leaps and bounds better than anything Telsa puts out. And that cult following won’t mean sh*t when someone would rather have a Porsche in their driveway.

Last edited by hellrotm; 11-30-2017 at 04:00 AM..
Appreciate 1
NickyC5456.50

      11-30-2017, 12:08 PM   #308
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
5992
Rep
13,850
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It always amuses me how folks look at Tesla cars as the actual product. It's like arguing that Ferrari doesn't make money on F1.

This isn't about the cars, it's the charging network, solar and battery infrastructure, not the cars. Not that the Model 3 won't derail all of this if they can't get it sorted out, but this has never been about profit per unit.
I'm sorry, but this makes no business sense whatsoever. I've heard this strategy argument with Tesla before. Automotive manufacturing is a serious capital intensive activity and highly competitive. If Tesla is not about building cars, then why is it building cars? If it just about the tech to electrify the transportation sector and power the world with solar energy, then why build the car to promote the tech?

LG is GM's major supplier/partner for the Bolt. GM has over 100 years experience in manufacturing automobiles and is damned good at it. GM has all the infrastructure in place and industry partnerships in place to design, develop and manufacture any type of vehicle they want. The Bolt is a great example of intelligent use of engineering resources and expertise. With it's partnership with GM, LG is becoming one of the major development players in the EV market. Teamed with GM and thru development of the Bolt, the GM/LG team has created an EV that offers the passenger size of the Model S with comparable range at 1/3 the price. IMO LG is actually the company that will be most effective and profitable at shifting the world's fleet of ICE vehicles to electrification.
Appreciate 3
hellrotm2934.50

Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST