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      12-07-2019, 06:50 AM   #2553
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Yep, holiday charging isn't very fun, looks like the east coast didn't have it as bad since a lot more model 3's reside out west.
Model 3 are every where here and the promised supercharging station in my neck of the woods never came to fruition.
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      12-08-2019, 03:12 PM   #2554
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      12-08-2019, 03:18 PM   #2555
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
This would happen with any adaptive cruise control, including bmw's. They are purposely designed to not stop for stationary objects at certain speeds.

Autopilot or not, this person obviously took his eyes off the road for way too long.
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      12-09-2019, 05:43 AM   #2556
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Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
This would happen with any adaptive cruise control, including bmw's. They are purposely designed to not stop for stationary objects at certain speeds.

Autopilot or not, this person obviously took his eyes off the road for way too long.
Nah, BS, the dude thought his Tesla 3 can (could) drive itself. I have a coworker that has admitted he has napped during his freeway stints; he relies on the tech too much IMO. Tesla should be sued out of business for crap like this. You just can't go beta testing autonomy on public streets. Hopefully a few more stupid accidents like this will kill off the asinine idea about autonomous vehicles.

If you don't like to drive, then take public transportation, or take an Uber or Lyft or a cab, or become rich and hire a driver.

I hope the driver's dog is okay and the state LEO who's car he hit.
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      12-09-2019, 06:19 AM   #2557
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Nah, BS, the dude thought his Tesla 3 can (could) drive itself. I have a coworker that has admitted he has napped during his freeway stints; he relies on the tech too much IMO. Tesla should be sued out of business for crap like this. You just can't go beta testing autonomy on public streets. Hopefully a few more stupid accidents like this will kill off the asinine idea about autonomous vehicles.

If you don't like to drive, then take public transportation, or take an Uber or Lyft or a cab, or become rich and hire a driver.

I hope the driver's dog is okay and the state LEO who's car he hit.
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
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      12-09-2019, 06:27 AM   #2558
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      12-09-2019, 08:58 AM   #2559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
This would happen with any adaptive cruise control, including bmw's. They are purposely designed to not stop for stationary objects at certain speeds.

Autopilot or not, this person obviously took his eyes off the road for way too long.
Nah, BS, the dude thought his Tesla 3 can (could) drive itself. I have a coworker that has admitted he has napped during his freeway stints; he relies on the tech too much IMO. Tesla should be sued out of business for crap like this. You just can't go beta testing autonomy on public streets. Hopefully a few more stupid accidents like this will kill off the asinine idea about autonomous vehicles.

If you don't like to drive, then take public transportation, or take an Uber or Lyft or a cab, or become rich and hire a driver.

I hope the driver's dog is okay and the state LEO who's car he hit.
Tesla is level 2, user should be aware and act as such...
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      12-09-2019, 09:06 AM   #2560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
yeah thats the problem though. People are being told the cars drive themselves. walked into a tesla store while i was out shopping the other day and some of the shit the salespeople said was ridiculous. I wanted to just pull up youtube vids of tesla fails and cast it to their TV.
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      12-09-2019, 09:35 AM   #2561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
Demonstrating the intelligence to properly use ACC or autonomous driving technologies should be made part of the DRIVER'S LICENSING EXAM.

If we can't fix stupid, at least weed it out.
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      12-09-2019, 09:57 AM   #2562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Leonard View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
Demonstrating the intelligence to properly use ACC or autonomous driving technologies should be made part of the DRIVER'S LICENSING EXAM.

If we can't fix stupid, at least weed it out.
Exactly and part of the problem is also the cult of Elon that feeds into this eerie sense of false security. Some Tesla owners believe any and every single line spoon fed to them by Tesla and Musk.
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      12-09-2019, 10:11 AM   #2563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Leonard View Post
Demonstrating the intelligence to properly use ACC or autonomous driving technologies should be made part of the DRIVER'S LICENSING EXAM.

If we can't fix stupid, at least weed it out.
I mean, drivers should have to have a CDL to operate a gigantic RV, but we all know that isn't going to happen either. That scares me more than some cucumber letting his car drive semi-autonomously.
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      12-09-2019, 10:12 AM   #2564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
Two thoughts, probably OT.

One, our driver education and license testing programs are a joke. Parents get sick of driving their kids around and insist on the kid getting a "rubber stamped" license at (in my state) age 16. This way Dad doesn't have to pick Junior up from soccer practice anymore, and can instead go to happy hour and flirt with the busty new coworker he's been ogling. And the rest of us suffer for the shoddy product. As someone without kids, I find this to be a major "fuck you" to me as a taxpayer. They're using my tax dollars to pay for the driver education and they're turning out a bunch of shitty "car steerers" who can't drive their way out of an empty Walmart parking lot without ending up greasy-side-up atop the cart corral.

And two, cars today are too goddamed easy to drive; the unfortunate side effect is that it's way too easy to let your attention lapse and your situational awareness go to 0%. Back when everything had a manual transmission and there was no power assist on anything, operating the car required 100% concentration. Distraction wasn't an option. This forced drivers to focus on - horror of horrors - driving.

</rant>
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      12-09-2019, 10:20 AM   #2565
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Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy View Post
yeah thats the problem though. People are being told the cars drive themselves. walked into a tesla store while i was out shopping the other day and some of the shit the salespeople said was ridiculous. I wanted to just pull up youtube vids of tesla fails and cast it to their TV.
To me this is no different than car manufacturers commercials about AWD equipped vehicles etc. Subaru being the worst offender here. The amount times I've heard someone say "I'm fine, I have AWD."
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      12-09-2019, 10:21 AM   #2566
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Two thoughts, probably OT.

One, our driver education and license testing programs are a joke. Parents get sick of driving their kids around and insist on the kid getting a "rubber stamped" license at (in my state) age 16. This way Dad doesn't have to pick Junior up from soccer practice anymore, and can instead go to happy hour and flirt with the busty new coworker he's been ogling. And the rest of us suffer for the shoddy product. As someone without kids, I find this to be a major "fuck you" to me as a taxpayer. They're using my tax dollars to pay for the driver education and they're turning out a bunch of shitty "car steerers" who can't drive their way out of an empty Walmart parking lot without ending up greasy-side-up atop the cart corral.

And two, cars today are too goddamed easy to drive; the unfortunate side effect is that it's way too easy to let your attention lapse and your situational awareness go to 0%. Back when everything had a manual transmission and there was no power assist on anything, operating the car required 100% concentration. Distraction wasn't an option. This forced drivers to focus on - horror of horrors - driving.

</rant>
^This a zillion percent.
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      12-09-2019, 10:30 AM   #2567
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
^This a zillion percent.
The other piece of this is, before lap & shoulder belts and wall-to-wall airbags, you knew that in even a minor car accident you were going to get the fuck beat out of you from rattling around in that car, bouncing off all those hard metal and glass surfaces. This had a positive affect on concentration; conversely, some of those who refused to focus got taken out of the gene pool via sudden deceleration. No such mechanism exists nowadays, and the overall level of driving skill is the worse for it.
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      12-09-2019, 10:38 AM   #2568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
The other piece of this is, before lap & shoulder belts and wall-to-wall airbags, you knew that in even a minor car accident you were going to get the fuck beat out of you from rattling around in that car, bouncing off all those hard metal and glass surfaces. This had a positive affect on concentration; conversely, some of those who refused to focus got taken out of the gene pool via sudden deceleration. No such mechanism exists nowadays, and the overall level of driving skill is the worse for it.
Rather than trying to place blame on the cars nowadays for bad driving, why not place the blame where it belongs? The dumbos behind the wheel who, 99% of the time, are too busy texting their friends to be bothered by paying attention to the road. Imagine if we had extremely high fines for using your phone behind the wheel, and even starting revoking licenses, how much safer the roads would be. $250 fine for first offense, $500 next time, onward and upward. Would be a whole lot of extra tax money for the state to use for whatever they want, and would cut down on accidents. Every. Single. Morning on my way to work, I pass at least 4 collisions, of which 99% are people being rear ended. No excuse to not seeing someone in front of you stopping, unless you're not paying attention.
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      12-09-2019, 10:42 AM   #2569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsad1 View Post
So should we get rid of all adaptive cruise controls since some people seem to take advantage of the technology? These same accidents happened before Tesla even existed.

The problem is that no one is educating the drivers on how to use the technology. Even if he was looking at the road, he probably would have expected the car would stop, as most people do. But it specifically says in the manual of every car with adaptive cruise control that the car will not brake in that situation.
Two thoughts, probably OT.

One, our driver education and license testing programs are a joke. Parents get sick of driving their kids around and insist on the kid getting a "rubber stamped" license at (in my state) age 16. This way Dad doesn't have to pick Junior up from soccer practice anymore, and can instead go to happy hour and flirt with the busty new coworker he's been ogling. And the rest of us suffer for the shoddy product. As someone without kids, I find this to be a major "fuck you" to me as a taxpayer. They're using my tax dollars to pay for the driver education and they're turning out a bunch of shitty "car steerers" who can't drive their way out of an empty Walmart parking lot without ending up greasy-side-up atop the cart corral.

And two, cars today are too goddamed easy to drive; the unfortunate side effect is that it's way too easy to let your attention lapse and your situational awareness go to 0%. Back when everything had a manual transmission and there was no power assist on anything, operating the car required 100% concentration. Distraction wasn't an option. This forced drivers to focus on - horror of horrors - driving.

</rant>
There are always 2 sides to the story. Younger generations are not that crazy about driving and car ownership in general. That was a
Big deal for us old timers to get the license and
Keys at 15.
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      12-09-2019, 10:44 AM   #2570
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Rather than trying to place blame on the cars nowadays for bad driving, why not place the blame where it belongs? The dumbos behind the wheel who, 99% of the time, are too busy texting their friends to be bothered by paying attention to the road. Imagine if we had extremely high fines for using your phone behind the wheel, and even starting revoking licenses, how much safer the roads would be. $250 fine for first offense, $500 next time, onward and upward. Would be a whole lot of extra tax money for the state to use for whatever they want, and would cut down on accidents. Every. Single. Morning on my way to work, I pass at least 4 collisions, of which 99% are people being rear ended. No excuse to not seeing someone in front of you stopping, unless you're not paying attention.
Agree 100%. The driver is always 100% responsible except in cases of mechanical failure, most of which are foreseeable and are the responsibility of the owner who is most often also the driver. My point was that the capabilities of today's cars have made inattentive driving possible.
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      12-09-2019, 10:46 AM   #2571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
Rather than trying to place blame on the cars nowadays for bad driving, why not place the blame where it belongs? The dumbos behind the wheel who, 99% of the time, are too busy texting their friends to be bothered by paying attention to the road. Imagine if we had extremely high fines for using your phone behind the wheel, and even starting revoking licenses, how much safer the roads would be. $250 fine for first offense, $500 next time, onward and upward. Would be a whole lot of extra tax money for the state to use for whatever they want, and would cut down on accidents. Every. Single. Morning on my way to work, I pass at least 4 collisions, of which 99% are people being rear ended. No excuse to not seeing someone in front of you stopping, unless you're not paying attention.
Agree 100%. The driver is always 100% responsible except in cases of mechanical failure, most of which are foreseeable and are the responsibility of the owner who is most often also the driver. My point was that the capabilities of today's cars have made inattentive driving possible.
Inattentive driving has been a problem for decades (...people reading newspapers, doing make-up in the rear view mirror, etc.). Cell phones/cell phone access/applications are more of a culprit than the car itself.
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      12-09-2019, 10:56 AM   #2572
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
There are always 2 sides to the story. Younger generations are not that crazy about driving and car ownership in general. That was a
Big deal for us old timers to get the license and
Keys at 15.
That something is "not a big deal" for someone is not an excuse to be cavalier about how they do it, at least not when others' lives are at stake. If they don't think that it's worth their effort to pay attention while operating a projectile that has the kinetic energy of several thousand M-16 rounds, then they should stay the fuck off the road.
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      12-09-2019, 10:58 AM   #2573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennsiveguy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
There are always 2 sides to the story. Younger generations are not that crazy about driving and car ownership in general. That was a
Big deal for us old timers to get the license and
Keys at 15.
That something is "not a big deal" for someone is not an excuse to be cavalier about how they do it, at least not when others' lives are at stake. If they don't think that it's worth their effort to pay attention while operating a projectile that has the kinetic energy of several thousand M-16 rounds, then they should stay the fuck off the road.
Could not agree more.

And LOL at the busty co worker reference.
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      12-09-2019, 11:37 AM   #2574
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
I mean, drivers should have to have a CDL to operate a gigantic RV, but we all know that isn't going to happen either. That scares me more than some cucumber letting his car drive semi-autonomously.
That's a peeve of mine too. It's usually an old duffer who never drove anything bigger than a Buick Lesabre his whole life, and he couldn't even keep that thing out of the body shop for a whole year.

My old dentist did the "RV lifestyle" switch-aroo when he retired. Sold his practice to his daughter and bought a beautiful 40-something-foot diesel Class A motorhome that was rumored to cost $600K. He and the wife could now "see America" after being chained to his work for 35 years. Only took him 4 months to total it. He tried to install a DIY 20-foot sunroof in it, by driving it under a 12' bridge somewhere in the Ozarks. Came home with his tail between his legs and a lot less $ in his wallet.

Here's a thought, Doc. Truck drivers don't retire and take up drilling folks' teeth as a hobby, do they? Nope. So maybe the opposite is a bad idea too, then...? Yeah, should have given that a little more time to sink in.
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