[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Really?! That's what you took from my statement?

I took that you are constantly baffled people compare Porsche and BMW. I gave you reasons why it happens. You disagree with what I posted?

[BMthusiast]

I wonder how much higher that 500 number of NA EDs would've been if the F80 stayed in production along with the F82/83 (EOP 6/20,8/20). Maybe still not enough for BMW to justify keeping ED for Americans but you gotta think the F80's departure played a role in the drop off of ED numbers.

[///M-Furby]

Originally Posted by Jason

Although BMW NA has historically represented an average of 2,000 European Deliveries annually, such deliveries have declined in recent years to under 500. Based on these trends and long-term evaluation, BMW Group will end the European Delivery Program in 2020 and cease accepting reservations as of May 18, 2020.

So they are ending this for US markets all together. That is silly because they are still using this program for other markets. I bet this was canceled because dealerships don't want to compete with the program for sales.

I wrote to BMW finance (i'm on my 4th finance with BMW) and urge everyone here to write BMW. Even if you have not done ED before and don't know if oyu will, it's in all of our best interests for the program to remain around. You never know if you will want to do it. I did it 2x and want to do it again. Spartanburg pales in comparison to picking your car at the Welt. To seeing the factory your car was built at and seeing other M cars being built. To driving on the Autobahn and heading to the Nurburgring for a few laps. Those last two things you cannot do in the US.

They are NOT shutting down the program, just preventing Americans from doing it.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by R N M

Have you driven a Tesla?

I test drove Model 3 without Performance package.
The car drives and handles much better than new 3series by far. The steering is incredible and direct. It puts power down immediately and obviously shift times are non existent. Its more BMW than the new BMWs. Once interior quality comes around - they will take over. The driving experience is that good!

First of all I disagree on the Tesla steering.
Secondly, ever occurred to you that not everybody wants an electric vehicle?
Beside the "green" lie that is fed up to the sheep, some of us know a lot more about the electric car and due to that will never buy one?
Third, whatever they do, Tesla, from design, interior design to quality of materials and fit and finish that car is a terrible joke. Go and ask a body shop about how "well" the body parts fit and they will tell you how unique each tesla is.
Either way, do not care about tesla and never will.
All I want is BMW to get better and reconsider few things. Screw Tesla.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

First of all I disagree on the Tesla steering.
Secondly, ever occurred to you that not everybody wants an electric vehicle?
Beside the "green" lie that is fed up to the sheep, some of us know a lot more about the electric car and due to that will never buy one?
Third, whatever they do, Tesla, from design, interior design to quality of materials and fit and finish that car is a terrible joke. Go and ask a body shop about how "well" the body parts fit and they will tell you how unique each tesla is.
Either way, do not care about tesla and never will.
We are talking ED in here.

Well said!

[white2abbit]

In case you're reading this BMW, I'd happily pay a premium for ED...just sayin'.

[somberlaine]

I am glad I did ED last year but I am saddened because I was hoping doing it again in the future.

[jdg54]

I've been dreaming about taking ED of an M3 since I was a little kid in the early 00's. I'm 23 now and ~3 years from being able to do so. Bummed is an understatement.

I wrote BMW Customer Relations and urge you to do the same. They wrote back apologizing and saying that they forwarded my remarks along.

Here's a contact link: https://www.bmwusa.com/contact-us.html

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Really?! That's what you took from my statement? Your lack of deductive reasoning shouldn't surprise me.

Fine, let's just go ahead and compare Ferrari with Fiat then. Or let's presume [and pretend] that Panerai or Rolex target the same clientele as Swatch (...with regards to price/cost of entry).

My deductive reasoning? Says the guy that thinks Porsche makes some kind of hyper car that no one can own. News flash Porsche makes cars that plenty of people can buy and afford to own just like BMW. A base Macan starts in the low $50,000s. An ///M8 is above $150,000. Plenty in between. Both are premium German brands. Get over yourself

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

First of all I disagree on the Tesla steering.
Secondly, ever occurred to you that not everybody wants an electric vehicle?
Beside the "green" lie that is fed up to the sheep, some of us know a lot more about the electric car and due to that will never buy one?
Third, whatever they do, Tesla, from design, interior design to quality of materials and fit and finish that car is a terrible joke. Go and ask a body shop about how "well" the body parts fit and they will tell you how unique each tesla is.
Either way, do not care about tesla and never will.
All I want is BMW to get better and reconsider few things. Screw Tesla.

LOL

You do realize BMW’s main focus now is EVs. Thats where all the R&D $$$ goes.
They may not survive long enough for it to be reality.

I much prefer ICE vehicles because of their character that EVs will never have but current BMWs even M cars are lacking in that department now as well.

The interior quality and overall fit and finish is BAD on Teslas.
That part is easier to solve - the tech and battery development is the hard part and they have that nailed.

Tesla deserves credit whether you like them or not and they cater to their own enthusiasts who are into technology.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It still baffles me why people keep comparing Porsche to BMW. They are not in the same realm in terms of vehicle/brand focus. It's like comparing Abercrombie to Dolce & Gabana. One is designed to appeal to a MUCH larger/broader audience with much shallower pocketbooks. The other is niche, more singularly focused and targeted at deep pockets.

It sounds like you may be thinking that Porsche = 911, or maybe 911 + 718. But the 911 and 718 make up less than 25% of Porsche's sales. The 911 makes up less than 15%.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

My deductive reasoning? Says the guy that thinks Porsche makes some kind of hyper car that no one can own. News flash Porsche makes cars that plenty of people can buy and afford to own just like BMW. A base Macan starts in the low $50,000s. An ///M8 is above $150,000. Plenty in between. Both are premium German brands. Get over yourself

Completely agree.

M3/M4 is about $80-90k on a decent spec.
M5 is well over $100k

boxster /Cayman is $65k plus
911 starts at $100k
Macan, Panamera, Cayenne can be compared to X3, X5, X6, X7
There is ton of overlap in price and models.

Porsche is definitely more expensive but its not Ferrari $$$ by any means. Most Porsche owners come from BMW.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by R N M

Completely agree.

M3/M4 is about $80-90k on a decent spec.
M5 is well over $100k

boxster /Cayman is $65k plus
911 starts at $100k
Macan, Panamera, Cayenne can be compared to X3, X5, X6, X7
There is ton of overlap in price and models.

Porsche is definitely more expensive but its not Ferrari $$$ by any means. Most Porsche owners come from BMW.

Porsche was never BMW competitor. BMW was never fighting Porsche.

Totally different territory and league.

It's more about Mercedes, Audi and currently Tesla.

[suspensio]

BMW doesn't seem to understand that it's programs like these just like Halo cars that create stark raving fans and lifelong customers. I've talked three people into going on this journey and all of them became "raving fans" of BMW. It's a bucket list item that because I am driving X5's I have not done myself but full well planned to. I will look to Porsche now for the same experience but it will not be the same. I've been to the Welt and it's simply breathtaking. BMW is losing site of why they are number one, the cars simply aren't as different as they once were and it's fans like me that push others into the brand.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by suspensio

BMW doesn't seem to understand that it's programs like these just like Halo cars that create stark raving fans and lifelong customers. I've talked three people into going on this journey and all of them became "raving fans" of BMW. It's a bucket list item that because I am driving X5's I have not done myself but full well planned to. I will look to Porsche now for the same experience but it will not be the same. I've been to the Welt and it's simply breathtaking. BMW is losing site of why they are number one, the cars simply aren't as different as they once were and it's fans like me that push others into the brand.

Number 1 in what?

[R N M]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Porsche was never BMW competitor. BMW was never fighting Porsche.

Totally different territory and league.

It's more about Mercedes, Audi and currently Tesla.

Thats maybe before Porsche was SUV brand.

So in your opinion these are not comparable:

Cayman/M2
Boxster/Z4
911/M4, M8
Macan/X3
cayenne/x5, x7
Cayenne sport /X6
Panamera / M760i, Alpina B7

BMW and Porsche are directly competitive in many models across their lineup.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by R N M

Thats maybe before Porsche was SUV brand.

So in your opinion these are not comparable:

Cayman/M2
Boxster/Z4
911/M4, M8
Macan/X3
cayenne/x5, x7
Cayenne sport /X6
Panamera / M760i, Alpina B7

BMW and Porsche are directly competitive in many models across their lineup.

Sorry but not at all. A full loaded Porsche will always be more expensive as the BMW you referring to.

BMW never tried to beat Porsche.

Just compare a full loaded Cayman to a full loaded M2...

[Ximian]

We did Volvo's Overseas Delivery on my wife's XC90 in 2016 and it was awesome experience. 3000 miles in a month driving around Europe in your own car is the easiest way to connect with a car and to build brand loyalty. Every time we go to an Italian or French restaurant, we're reminded of the memories we've made in the vehicle during our trip and the car being with us there in Italy and France.

I was planning on doing European Delivery with the new M3, but that looks like it won't happen. While I may get another M3/M4 in the future, I certainly won't be paying the premium for a new one and that's how BMW loses with those of us interested in program. They don't make money on used car sales.

As for renting a BMW in Europe, if you go outside Germany to certain eastern European countries, BMWs/Audis/Mercedes rental cars aren't even allowed to go there so that's not an option. So all you're left with as options are old rentals with a ton of insurance coverage that cost more than a typical Ford F150's down payment. In cases like that, European Delivery would actually save money.

[JCZ5]

So I was holding off on purchasing my next BMW, till later this year. But all this talk has gotten me excited and have been reaching out to dealers for my build.

So to the contrary, with this news, I'm going out and buying my M2C. Take my money, BMW!!!!

[R N M]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Sorry but not at all. A full loaded Porsche will always be more expensive as the BMW you referring to.

BMW never tried to beat Porsche.

Just compare a full loaded Cayman to a full loaded M2...

ok im sorry you are a lost cause and have no facts to back up your findings.

Porsche doesn’t have 3er competition, just like BMW doesn’t have GT3 competitor but across other models they do compete with BMW and MB.
Go speak to Porsche sales rep and see what they say.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Sorry but not at all. A full loaded Porsche will always be more expensive as the BMW you referring to. BMW never tried to beat Porsche. Just compare a full loaded Cayman to a full loaded M2...

Sorry, but it's obvious that you're just not informed about that market. I'm currently working on an order for a new C2S Cab. Well equipped, it will have an MSRP of around $163k. When I price a M8C vert, it comes out to $161k. No ceramic brakes on either car.

If you really understood the Porsche brand, you'd know that you never talk about a "fully loaded" car. In the case of my $163k C2S, it will be "very well equipped", but fully loaded - checking all the boxes - it would cost over $200k. If you've ordered a Porsche, you'd know that there are well over 200 options to chose from. Want the steering column or sun visors in leather? That's an option. Do you want the headlight washers in chrome or body color? There are three different extra cost options for the finish of the rear badge and five different finishes for the back of one of four types of seats available. No one buys a fully loaded Porsche. Many people check the 10 or 12 boxes to buy a fully loaded BMW.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by R N M

ok im sorry you are a lost cause and have no facts to back up your findings.

Porsche doesn’t have 3er competition, just like BMW doesn’t have GT3 competitor but across other models they do compete with BMW and MB.
Go speak to Porsche sales rep and see what they say.

What do you mean by back up?

Spec out max. a Porsche and Spec out max. a BMW and you will see the difference.

Also when it comes to leasing, you can lease a M4 CS, yes CS for $7XX$... ask your Porsche sales rep what he can give you for that amount.

Different league, no competitors.