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      11-25-2017, 03:36 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by shiv.nandak View Post
I'm stocking up on tesla stocks :P - i look at the company the same way i look at Apple. All the non-enthusiast millennial hipsters will be all over tesla products soon.
Sold my Tesla stock weeks ago. Then they announced the Roadster 2.
Might get back in.
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      11-25-2017, 07:52 PM   #266
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Not all that glitters is gold. Everyone took the Tesla blue pill with Musk constantly reminding them how great his company is. Once the big autos come out with their EVs and infrastucture, it's game over Tesla. They won't have the operational efficiency to keep up nor the 'innovation' to lure more capital.
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      11-25-2017, 09:32 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Not all that glitters is gold. Everyone took the Tesla blue pill with Musk constantly reminding them how great his company is. Once the big autos come out with their EVs and infrastucture, it's game over Tesla. They won't have the operational efficiency to keep up nor the 'innovation' to lure more capital.
Tesla already has something the current big car manufacturers don't: a cult like following. Tesla will alway be the "it" name brand, much like Apple. No matter how far behind you might think the iPhone is compared to android, it doesn't matter. The Model 3 is Tesla's first big test in a bigger price segment. They have stumbled a bit, bit who hasn't? Even the biggest car company in the world (VAG) and the "safest" (Toyota) have made some major stumbles. Tesla isn't unique in this way. If the Model 3 can come out of this as a success, Tesla will have proven itself as more than a niche brand. I've unloaded all my interests in Tesla, and I'm still waiting to see if I underestimated it.
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      11-25-2017, 10:17 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Not all that glitters is gold. Everyone took the Tesla blue pill with Musk constantly reminding them how great his company is. Once the big autos come out with their EVs and infrastucture, it's game over Tesla. They won't have the operational efficiency to keep up nor the 'innovation' to lure more capital.
Agree, starting with the Porsche eMission.

That cult following won’t mean sh*t, when everyone sees the build quality compared to a big brand.

Last edited by hellrotm; 11-26-2017 at 12:40 AM..
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      11-26-2017, 11:39 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Tesla already has something the current big car manufacturers don't: a cult like following. Tesla will alway be the "it" name brand, much like Apple. No matter how far behind you might think the iPhone is compared to android, it doesn't matter. The Model 3 is Tesla's first big test in a bigger price segment. They have stumbled a bit, bit who hasn't? Even the biggest car company in the world (VAG) and the "safest" (Toyota) have made some major stumbles. Tesla isn't unique in this way. If the Model 3 can come out of this as a success, Tesla will have proven itself as more than a niche brand. I've unloaded all my interests in Tesla, and I'm still waiting to see if I underestimated it.
Tesla has a cult following? You mean the same millennials that would quickly go grab the next newest and shiny thing on the market if they had a chance? The same generation that has the least brand loyalty of all generations?

Again, the Blue Pill, the fanfare will die as soon as the premium brands come out with a competitor in the near future. Why would someone want a Tesla over a BMW, MB, Porsche, Lexus if the products are like for like? Do people like to wait years for their cars? Then yeah, maybe Tesla then.

On top of ALL of this, Tesla is an operational mess. They've had YEARS to get it right and still can't turn them out. Not many startups are given as much time to become a viable business as Tesla.

Last edited by hi_officer; 11-26-2017 at 11:50 AM..
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      11-26-2017, 12:08 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Tesla already has something the current big car manufacturers don't: a cult like following. Tesla will alway be the "it" name brand, much like Apple. No matter how far behind you might think the iPhone is compared to android, it doesn't matter. The Model 3 is Tesla's first big test in a bigger price segment. They have stumbled a bit, bit who hasn't? Even the biggest car company in the world (VAG) and the "safest" (Toyota) have made some major stumbles. Tesla isn't unique in this way. If the Model 3 can come out of this as a success, Tesla will have proven itself as more than a niche brand. I've unloaded all my interests in Tesla, and I'm still waiting to see if I underestimated it.
Tesla has a cult following? You mean the same millennials that would quickly go grab the next newest and shiny thing on the market if they had a chance? The same generation that has the least brand loyalty of all generations?

Again, the Blue Pill, the fanfare will die as soon as the premium brands come out with a competitor in the near future. Why would someone want a Tesla over a BMW, MB, Porsche, Lexus if the products are like for like? Do people like to wait years for their cars? Then yeah, maybe Tesla then.

On top of ALL of this, Tesla is an operational mess. They've had YEARS to get it right and still can't turn them out. Not many startups are given as much time to become a viable business as Tesla.
Believe me, I'm just as critical of their pratfalls as the next guy, I've sold all my interests in TSLA after all. But I wouldn't put it past them to come out a strong competitor. It's a bit premature to say they will be gone in 10 years. Honestly, you can't be certain they will be gone by 2027 until 2026. Honestly, have you ever seen a "new" car company be so successful so fast?
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      11-26-2017, 12:33 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Believe me, I'm just as critical of their pratfalls as the next guy, I've sold all my interests in TSLA after all. But I wouldn't put it past them to come out a strong competitor. It's a bit premature to say they will be gone in 10 years. Honestly, you can't be certain they will be gone by 2027 until 2026. Honestly, have you ever seen a "new" car company be so successful so fast?
IMO, Tesla has not been successful at being a viable company. They have been successful at raising capital and creating hype (like Bernie Madoff). Any company can take a $1 and give you back $0.50.

Agree, the barriers to entry for an automotive company are high, which is why most new car companies don't enter the most competitive market all by themselves. Fisker is a prime example.

I have no idea when Tesla will fall or if they will fall, all I am saying is that the future doesn't look bright if they keep going down their current path.

A friend of mine summed it up a few weeks ago. He works for Toyota here in Plano. He said "I saw Porsche is coming out with an electric car in a year or so (the Mission E)." He then asked "Who would actually buy a Tesla over a Porsche?". I told him good point. Very little people would sacrifice the brand of a well known car maker once they produce cars like-for-like to Tesla. It the same reason iPhone market share has been eaten away each year since it debuted (https://seekingalpha.com/article/406...rtphone-market)
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      11-26-2017, 12:40 PM   #272
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The Model 3 is putting Tesla in dangerous territory
http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla...roblem-2017-11

In praise of Tesla’s bankruptcy
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/26/in...as-bankruptcy/

Tesla’s Burning Through Nearly Half a Million Dollars Every Hour
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d-model-3-woes
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      11-26-2017, 01:08 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Believe me, I'm just as critical of their pratfalls as the next guy, I've sold all my interests in TSLA after all. But I wouldn't put it past them to come out a strong competitor. It's a bit premature to say they will be gone in 10 years. Honestly, you can't be certain they will be gone by 2027 until 2026. Honestly, have you ever seen a "new" car company be so successful so fast?
IMO, Tesla has not been successful at being a viable company. They have been successful at raising capital and creating hype (like Bernie Madoff). Any company can take a $1 and give you back $0.50.

Agree, the barriers to entry for an automotive company are high, which is why most new car companies don't enter the most competitive market all by themselves. Fisker is a prime example.

I have no idea when Tesla will fall or if they will fall, all I am saying is that the future doesn't look bright if they keep going down their current path.

A friend of mine summed it up a few weeks ago. He works for Toyota here in Plano. He said "I saw Porsche is coming out with an electric car in a year or so (the Mission E)." He then asked "Who would actually buy a Tesla over a Porsche?". I told him good point. Very little people would sacrifice the brand of a well known car maker once they produce cars like-for-like to Tesla. It the same reason iPhone market share has been eaten away each year since it debuted (https://seekingalpha.com/article/406...rtphone-market)
That article is 6 months old.

I gave Tesla $250 and they gave me back $300 per share. I say that's a good return, inflated or not. It's that kind of confidence that will help Tesla through all the growing pains of a new car company. Confidence will go a long way.

I understand that venture capital interest is a whole other ballgame, but they keep playing and they know that the long game is long. Makes sense doesn't it?
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      11-26-2017, 01:19 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
The Model 3 is putting Tesla in dangerous territory
http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla...roblem-2017-11

In praise of Tesla’s bankruptcy
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/26/in...as-bankruptcy/

Tesla’s Burning Through Nearly Half a Million Dollars Every Hour
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...d-model-3-woes
That second article states it perfectly. People have been predicting Tesla bankruptcy for a long time. It's not happened yet. Will it ever? And unless you have vested stake in the company or a competitor, why support one outcome over another? Wouldn't the success of Tesla make for a more competitive market?

I thought their stock was going to keep falling, so i cashed out, while I still had profit. I was wrong. Stock went back up. And I hope it continues to go up for the sake of the market and for the sake of the economy. Even now as I have no play in the game, why would I want them to go down? Seems petty and vengeful.
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      11-26-2017, 01:42 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
That article is 6 months old.

I gave Tesla $250 and they gave me back $300 per share. I say that's a good return, inflated or not. It's that kind of confidence that will help Tesla through all the growing pains of a new car company. Confidence will go a long way.

I understand that venture capital interest is a whole other ballgame, but they keep playing and they know that the long game is long. Makes sense doesn't it?
I'm speaking to Tesla as a company, not as a stock... that's a whole other conversation.
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      11-26-2017, 01:45 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
That article is 6 months old.

I gave Tesla $250 and they gave me back $300 per share. I say that's a good return, inflated or not. It's that kind of confidence that will help Tesla through all the growing pains of a new car company. Confidence will go a long way.

I understand that venture capital interest is a whole other ballgame, but they keep playing and they know that the long game is long. Makes sense doesn't it?
I'm speaking to Tesla as a company, not as a stock... that's a whole other conversation.
Again, venture investments are in it for the long game. Facebook, google, Uber... this list goes on.

So again, I ask: why support one outcome over the other unless you have a horse in this race? Do you have a horse in this race and how? What do you have to gain by the failure of Tesla except an "I told you so" from an ICE traditionalist?
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      11-26-2017, 01:49 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
That second article states it perfectly. People have been predicting Tesla bankruptcy for a long time. It's not happened yet. Will it ever? And unless you have vested stake in the company or a competitor, why support one outcome over another? Wouldn't the success of Tesla make for a more competitive market?

I thought their stock was going to keep falling, so i cashed out, while I still had profit. I was wrong. Stock went back up. And I hope it continues to go up for the sake of the market and for the sake of the economy. Even now as I have no play in the game, why would I want them to go down? Seems petty and vengeful.
jmg, why are YOU such a Tesla cheerleader, always defending? especially since you say you cashed out? Why can't you look at Tesla objectively as an auto company with only 2 profitable quarter in 14 years, a knack for under delivering products, and an innovative idea which is quickly becoming a commodity across other auto companies?

Cut through the fanfare and the hype and what is left with Tesla? Not much. If Model 3 is/was such a big hit, why would Musk all the sudden come out with the Roadster? Why would he need so much more capital if he couldn't rely on the bread and butter model 3? Take a step back a judge Tesla like you would any other company, and not their stock.
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      11-26-2017, 01:51 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Again, venture investments are in it for the long game. Facebook, google, Uber... this list goes on.

So again, I ask: why support one outcome over the other unless you have a horse in this race? Do you have a horse in this race and how? What do you have to gain by the failure of Tesla except an "I told you so" from an ICE traditionalist?
Venture money is not long-term money. The idea is to invest in a company’s balance sheet and infrastructure until it reaches a sufficient size and credibility so that it can be sold to a corporation or so that the institutional public-equity markets can step in and provide liquidity. In essence, the venture capitalist buys a stake in an entrepreneur’s idea, nurtures it for a short period of time, and then exits with the help of an investment banker.

Oh... and VCs have been wrong way more often than right.
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      11-26-2017, 01:51 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
That second article states it perfectly. People have been predicting Tesla bankruptcy for a long time. It's not happened yet. Will it ever? And unless you have vested stake in the company or a competitor, why support one outcome over another? Wouldn't the success of Tesla make for a more competitive market?

I thought their stock was going to keep falling, so i cashed out, while I still had profit. I was wrong. Stock went back up. And I hope it continues to go up for the sake of the market and for the sake of the economy. Even now as I have no play in the game, why would I want them to go down? Seems petty and vengeful.
jmg, why are YOU such a Tesla cheerleader, always defending? especially since you say you cashed out? Why can't you look at Tesla objectively as an auto company with only 2 profitable quarter in 14 years, a knack for under delivering products, and an innovative idea which is quickly becoming a commodity across other auto companies?

Cut through the fanfare and the hype and what is left with Tesla? Not much. If Model 3 is/was such a big hit, why would Musk all the sudden come out with the Roadster? Why would he need so much more capital if he couldn't rely on the bread and butter model 3? Take a step back a judge Tesla like you would any other company, and not their stock.
I've already answered this question. Because it's good for the economy, the market, and technological innovation for them to succeed. Just because I have sold my interests, should I now wish for their failure? Seems kind of selfish and shortsighted.

And Musk didn't "all of a sudden" come out with a Roadster. That's been in the pipe for years.
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      11-26-2017, 01:55 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
I've already answered this question. Because it's good for the economy, the market, and technological innovation for them to succeed. Just because I have sold my interests, should I now wish for their failure? Seems kind of selfish and shortsighted.

And Musk didn't "all of a sudden" come out with a Roadster. That's been in the pipe for years.
I'm not wishing for success or failure of Tesla. But, I can look past the smoke and mirrors and into their balance sheet and strategy to see it's pretty meek. And yes, that Roadster was a publicity stunt lol
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      11-26-2017, 01:57 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Again, venture investments are in it for the long game. Facebook, google, Uber... this list goes on.

So again, I ask: why support one outcome over the other unless you have a horse in this race? Do you have a horse in this race and how? What do you have to gain by the failure of Tesla except an "I told you so" from an ICE traditionalist?
Venture money is not long-term money. The idea is to invest in a company’s balance sheet and infrastructure until it reaches a sufficient size and credibility so that it can be sold to a corporation or so that the institutional public-equity markets can step in and provide liquidity. In essence, the venture capitalist buys a stake in an entrepreneur’s idea, nurtures it for a short period of time, and then exits with the help of an investment banker.

Oh... and VCs have been wrong way more often than right.
You are right, I'm using the wrong term.
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      11-26-2017, 01:58 PM   #282
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Just to reiterate, I don't think anyone here really WANTS Telsa to fail. But that is not the conversation here. We are examining the viability of Tesla with the information we have. So, jmg, before you get defensive with what's good for the economy and innovation, please understand this point.
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      11-26-2017, 02:14 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by hi_officer View Post
Just to reiterate, I don't think anyone here really WANTS Telsa to fail. But that is not the conversation here. We are examining the viability of Tesla with the information we have. So, jmg, before you get defensive with what's good for the economy and innovation, please understand this point.
Who's on the defensive? I'm sitting here basically saying that if Tesla can make it out of this, they will become a viable company while the opposing argument is that they can't make it out of it.
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      11-26-2017, 02:23 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
What do you have to gain by the failure of Tesla except an "I told you so" from an ICE traditionalist?
Has nothing to with ICE, he just said the big brands are going to beat Telsa at their own game. Produce better quality all electric cars.
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      11-26-2017, 02:27 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
What do you have to gain by the failure of Tesla except an "I told you so" from an ICE traditionalist?
Has nothing to with ICE, he just said the big brands are going to beat Telsa at their own game. Produce better quality all electric cars.
One should look at the Bolt example to see how public perception plays a role in sales.
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      11-26-2017, 02:28 PM   #286
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One should look at the Bolt example to see how public perception plays a role in sales.
LOL...Chevrolet.

That is not the company Telsa will be worried about.
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