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      04-02-2020, 07:14 PM   #3719
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Wait now...since this was the OBAMA economy just before the crises, this is clearly the OBAMA response.
Bingo..can't have it both ways. Libs arent all that bright.
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      04-02-2020, 07:19 PM   #3720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
OK, let's have a quick look at what the NIH said about the referenced paper that you qualify as "BS":

National Institutes of Health - U.S. Department of Health & Human Services - here:
"Genomic Study Points to Natural Origin of COVID-19
Posted on March 26th, 2020 by Dr. Francis Collins

No matter where you go online these days, there’s bound to be discussion of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Some folks are even making outrageous claims that the new coronavirus causing the pandemic was engineered in a lab and deliberately released to make people sick. A new study debunks such claims by providing scientific evidence that this novel coronavirus arose naturally.
The reassuring findings are the result of genomic analyses conducted by an international research team, partly supported by NIH. In their study in the journal Nature Medicine, Kristian Andersen, Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, CA; Robert Garry, Tulane University School of Medicine, New Orleans; and their colleagues used sophisticated bioinformatic tools to compare publicly available genomic data from several coronaviruses, including the new one that causes COVID-19.
The researchers began by homing in on the parts of the coronavirus genomes that encode the spike proteins that give this family of viruses their distinctive crown-like appearance. (By the way, “corona” is Latin for “crown.”) All coronaviruses rely on spike proteins to infect other cells. But, over time, each coronavirus has fashioned these proteins a little differently, and the evolutionary clues about these modifications are spelled out in their genomes.
The genomic data of the new coronavirus responsible for COVID-19 show that its spike protein contains some unique adaptations. One of these adaptations provides special ability of this coronavirus to bind to a specific protein on human cells called angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE2). A related coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in humans also seeks out ACE2.
Existing computer models predicted that the new coronavirus would not bind to ACE2 as well as the SARS virus. However, to their surprise, the researchers found that the spike protein of the new coronavirus actually bound far better than computer predictions, likely because of natural selection on ACE2 that enabled the virus to take advantage of a previously unidentified alternate binding site. Researchers said this provides strong evidence that that new virus was not the product of purposeful manipulation in a lab. In fact, any bioengineer trying to design a coronavirus that threatened human health probably would never have chosen this particular conformation for a spike protein.
The researchers went on to analyze genomic data related to the overall molecular structure, or backbone, of the new coronavirus. Their analysis showed that the backbone of the new coronavirus’s genome most closely resembles that of a bat coronavirus discovered after the COVID-19 pandemic began. However, the region that binds ACE2 resembles a novel virus found in pangolins, a strange-looking animal sometimes called a scaly anteater. This provides additional evidence that the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 almost certainly originated in nature. If the new coronavirus had been manufactured in a lab, scientists most likely would have used the backbones of coronaviruses already known to cause serious diseases in humans.
So, what is the natural origin of the novel coronavirus responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic? The researchers don’t yet have a precise answer. But they do offer two possible scenarios.
In the first scenario, as the new coronavirus evolved in its natural hosts, possibly bats or pangolins, its spike proteins mutated to bind to molecules similar in structure to the human ACE2 protein, thereby enabling it to infect human cells. This scenario seems to fit other recent outbreaks of coronavirus-caused disease in humans, such as SARS, which arose from cat-like civets; and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), which arose from camels.
The second scenario is that the new coronavirus crossed from animals into humans before it became capable of causing human disease. Then, as a result of gradual evolutionary changes over years or perhaps decades, the virus eventually gained the ability to spread from human-to-human and cause serious, often life-threatening disease.
Either way, this study leaves little room to refute a natural origin for COVID-19. And that’s a good thing because it helps us keep focused on what really matters: observing good hygiene, practicing social distancing, and supporting the efforts of all the dedicated health-care professionals and researchers who are working so hard to address this major public health challenge.
Finally, next time you come across something about COVID-19 online that disturbs or puzzles you, I suggest going to FEMA’s new Coronavirus Rumor Control web site. It may not have all the answers to your questions, but it’s definitely a step in the right direction in helping to distinguish rumors from facts.
Reference:
[1] The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2. Andersen KG, Rambaut A, Lipkin WI, Holmes EC, Garry RF. Nat Med, 17 March 2020. [Epub ahead of publication]"
Feel free to claim that the #1 of the NIH (a physician-geneticist noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the international Human Genome Project) has no clue what he's talking about.
Address the highlighted areas and think about this.

If someone handed you a gun and asked you to put it to your head and pull the trigger with the qualifiers used that I highlighted above, would you?

I'm guessing no.

This is a speculative paper.
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      04-02-2020, 07:29 PM   #3721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Address the highlighted areas and think about this.

If someone handed you a gun and asked you to put it to your head and pull the trigger with the qualifiers used that I highlighted above, would you?

I'm guessing no.

This is a speculative paper.
Thats a lot to read, my question is would you hear the bang? Sorry, the rum is kicking in.....
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      04-02-2020, 07:36 PM   #3722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Wait now...since this was the OBAMA economy just before the crises, this is clearly the OBAMA response.
Bingo..can't have it both ways. Libs arent all that bright.
And yet you make them look shiny......
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      04-02-2020, 07:42 PM   #3723
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Did you read your paper? It didn't debunk a freaking thing. It's a mass of speculation, wrapped up in basic ID science. C'mon. Sell this BS elsewhere.
You have been a good source of information until that paper was shared.
Cheers-mk
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Feel free to claim that the #1 of the NIH (a physician-geneticist noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes and his leadership of the international Human Genome Project) has no clue what he's talking about.
Address the highlighted areas and think about this.
If someone handed you a gun and asked you to put it to your head and pull the trigger with the qualifiers used that I highlighted above, would you?
I'm guessing no.
This is a speculative paper.
Feel free to send the NIH a letter stating that their director's recent statement "[a] new study debunks such claims by providing scientific evidence that this novel coronavirus arose naturally" does not properly reflect the contents and conclusion of a study that you consider to be "BS".

Mr. Eric Arthur Blair:
"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act."
(George Orwell, Facing Unpleasant Facts: Narrative Essays).
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      04-02-2020, 07:47 PM   #3724
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It seems the only way health care workers can protect themselves is with full waterproof hazmat suits and gas masks. https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/how-an...m-coronavirus/
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      04-02-2020, 07:51 PM   #3725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Feel free to send the NIH a letter stating that their director's recent statement "[a] new study debunks such claims by providing scientific evidence that this novel coronavirus arose naturally" does not properly reflect the contents and conclusion of a study that you consider to be "BS".

Mr. Eric Arthur Blair:
"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act."
(George Orwell, Facing Unpleasant Facts: Narrative Essays).
I work in the drug development arena. This wouldn't pass muster if a drug was attached to this. It's highly speculative. Those highlighted areas clearly show this.

You may feel that it's good enough but it doesn't pass muster to me and, I'm sure, many others. I work for myself because I tend to be suspicious when anyone wraps speculative information in the cloak of legitimacy.

If I asked him to stake his life on the veracity of this report, the answer would be no. Would you?
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      04-02-2020, 07:56 PM   #3726
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While my wife would rather have ALL the PPE she needs in the ER....I guess Congress can get their butts in gear and vote all YES to this ...................

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/law...navirus-heroes

Lawmaker presses for federal tax holiday for frontline coronavirus 'heroes'
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      04-02-2020, 08:07 PM   #3727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
This actually isn't spin. Nearly every Democrat said this was the Obama economy. Please don't have me pull articles on this.

Following that logic, this response MUST be the OBAMA response.
Oh no! Please don't pull multiple articles. I'm not a Democrat and you can pull whatever you want. Who is in charge of the current situation we are in? How are we doing? What was Trump's response to this mess a month ago? Answer my questions before you reply with your bullshit spin.
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      04-02-2020, 08:13 PM   #3728
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Originally Posted by JMAC5150 View Post
Oh no! Please don't pull multiple articles. I'm not a Democrat and you can pull whatever you want. Who is in charge of the current situation we are in? How are we doing? What was Trump's response to this mess a month ago? Answer my questions before you reply with your bullshit spin.
Sure you aren't. :roll eyes:

Let's see:
Resorts to profane language. Check.
Says he's not a democrat. Check.
Refuses to acknowledge the assertion I made. Check.
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      04-02-2020, 08:29 PM   #3729
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Originally Posted by Joe-T View Post
I have heard that we report differently as well. For example, an older gentleman has a stroke and while in the hospital, also tests positive for Covid-19. If he passes while at the hospital it's added to the virus death toll. If the death was due to complications from the stroke it's still a Corona number

My understanding is that other countries are not reporting that way

I may be wrong,

Yep, this is correct. In the US, if you die from a heart attack but have COVID19 at the time, it still gets counted as a COVID19 death. So yeah, it's misleading. Every country is reporting a COVID19 death differently.

Another thing that really skews the fear is the fact that over 25% those over 80 that succumbed to COVID19 or were listed as COVID19 death were going to die this year, virus or not. That's the harsh reality for 25% of the 80+ age group.

The ultra high 1,355 daily death count for France today were way misleading. They listed 884 fatalities in nursing homes that occurred over a period of several weeks and that were announced only today.
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      04-02-2020, 08:32 PM   #3730
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It seems the only way health care workers can protect themselves is with full waterproof hazmat suits and gas masks. https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/how-an...m-coronavirus/
They really need to go to half-face respirators with replaceable filter cartridges. It would be much simpler, protective, long lasting, and cheaper in the long run. All the men doctors would have to shave though in order to get a good seal.
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      04-02-2020, 08:33 PM   #3731
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      04-02-2020, 08:44 PM   #3732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Feel free to send the NIH a letter stating that their director's recent statement "[a] new study debunks such claims by providing scientific evidence that this novel coronavirus arose naturally" does not properly reflect the contents and conclusion of a study that you consider to be "BS".

Mr. Eric Arthur Blair:
"We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act."
(George Orwell, Facing Unpleasant Facts: Narrative Essays).
I work in the drug development arena. This wouldn't pass muster if a drug was attached to this. It's highly speculative. Those highlighted areas clearly show this.
You may feel that it's good enough but it doesn't pass muster to me and, I'm sure, many others. I work for myself because I tend to be suspicious when anyone wraps speculative information in the cloak of legitimacy.
If I asked him to stake his life on the veracity of this report, the answer would be no. Would you?
Think again.

Also the researchers commented on their study published in the peer-reviewed medical journal Nature Medicine: see here ("The COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin, scientists say").

For your convenience, I marked their quotes in a different color:
"The COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic has a natural origin, scientists say
March 17, 2020

The novel SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus that emerged in the city of Wuhan, China, last year and has since caused a large scale COVID-19 epidemic and spread to more than 70 other countries is the product of natural evolution, according to findings published today in the journal Nature Medicine.
The analysis of public genome sequence data from SARS-CoV-2 and related viruses found no evidence that the virus was made in a laboratory or otherwise engineered.
“By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes,” said Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research and corresponding author on the paper.
In addition to Andersen, authors on the paper, "The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2," include Robert F. Garry, of Tulane University; Edward Holmes, of the University of Sydney; Andrew Rambaut, of University of Edinburgh; W. Ian Lipkin, of Columbia University
Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that can cause illnesses ranging widely in severity. The first known severe illness caused by a coronavirus emerged with the 2003 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) epidemic in China. A second outbreak of severe illness began in 2012 in Saudi Arabia with the Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS).
On December 31 of last year, Chinese authorities alerted the World Health Organization of an outbreak of a novel strain of coronavirus causing severe illness, which was subsequently named SARS-CoV-2. As of March 16, 2020, nearly 167,500 COVID-19 cases have been documented, although many more mild cases have likely gone undiagnosed. The virus has killed over 6,600 people.
Shortly after the epidemic began, Chinese scientists sequenced the genome of SARS-CoV-2 and made the data available to researchers worldwide. The resulting genomic sequence data has shown that Chinese authorities rapidly detected the epidemic and that the number of COVID-19 cases have been increasing because of human to human transmission after a single introduction into the human population. Andersen and collaborators at several other research institutions used this sequencing data to explore the origins and evolution of SARS-CoV-2 by focusing in on several tell-tale features of the virus.
The scientists analyzed the genetic template for spike proteins, armatures on the outside of the virus that it uses to grab and penetrate the outer walls of human and animal cells. More specifically, they focused on two important features of the spike protein: the receptor-binding domain (RBD), a kind of grappling hook that grips onto host cells, and the cleavage site, a molecular can opener that allows the virus to crack open and enter host cells.
Evidence for natural evolution
The scientists found that the RBD portion of the SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins had evolved to effectively target a molecular feature on the outside of human cells called ACE2, a receptor involved in regulating blood pressure. The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein was so effective at binding the human cells, in fact, that the scientists concluded it was the result of natural selection and not the product of genetic engineering.
This evidence for natural evolution was supported by data on SARS-CoV-2’s backbone – its overall molecular structure. If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness. But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins.
“These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2” said Andersen.
Josie Golding, PhD, epidemics lead at UK-based Wellcome Trust, said the findings by Andersen and his colleagues are “crucially important to bring an evidence-based view to the rumors that have been circulating about the origins of the virus (SARS-CoV-2) causing COVID-19.”
“They conclude that the virus is the product of natural evolution,” Golding adds, “ending any speculation about deliberate genetic engineering.”
(...)"
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      04-02-2020, 09:12 PM   #3733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It seems the only way health care workers can protect themselves is with full waterproof hazmat suits and gas masks. https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/how-an...m-coronavirus/
They really need to go to half-face respirators with replaceable filter cartridges. It would be much simpler, protective, long lasting, and cheaper in the long run. All the men doctors would have to shave though in order to get a good seal.
That and face shields for eye protection.
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      04-02-2020, 09:15 PM   #3734
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Sure you aren't. :roll eyes:

Let's see:
Resorts to profane language. Check.
Says he's not a democrat. Check.
Refuses to acknowledge the assertion I made. Check.


Your assertion. Deny, divert and discredit. You do it well
Sorry Independent. Check
Looking forward to more of your bullshit. Answer my questions. You won't!
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      04-02-2020, 09:15 PM   #3735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Address the highlighted areas and think about this.

If someone handed you a gun and asked you to put it to your head and pull the trigger with the qualifiers used that I highlighted above, would you?

I'm guessing no.

This is a speculative paper.
I don't think you have the requisite background to understand that paper, for one.

Second, it's all speculative, holy shit. Do you know what's even more speculative than that paper? Thinking it's a fucking bioweapon when there is ZERO evidence. Giving credence to such outlandish conspiracy theories is dangerous and I thought something that would be beneath you, but apparently not.

I can give even more simple and logical reasons why it's not a bioweapon later. The only BS here is being spouted by you. This paper you think is speculative BS has been cited by at least 3 of the top virlogists in the US, btw. Maybe you should argue with the likes of Ralph Baric out of UNC who has spent his entire life researching coronaviruses, since you know better.

The level of ignorance you have displayed is staggering.
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      04-02-2020, 09:20 PM   #3736
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
That and face shields for eye protection.
They do have positive pressure full face masks (shield type). I've seen them on some doctors, but it seems they are not all that common.

Last edited by chris719; 04-02-2020 at 09:26 PM..
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      04-02-2020, 09:24 PM   #3737
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Originally Posted by JMAC5150 View Post
Your assertion. Deny, divert and discredit. You do it well
Sorry Independent. Check
Looking forward to more of your bullshit. Answer my questions. You won't!

He's got the new version of TDS now. Total Dumbass Syndrome.
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      04-02-2020, 09:28 PM   #3738
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I'd just like to add one key component to the argument above and it is that LOBBYISTS or former lobbyists are rated somewhat lower on the "truthiness" scale than used car salesman.
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      04-02-2020, 09:35 PM   #3739
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Originally Posted by JMAC5150 View Post
Your assertion. Deny, divert and discredit. You do it well
Sorry Independent. Check
Looking forward to more of your bullshit. Answer my questions. You won't!
Read the headline from Military Times and check on the date.
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      04-02-2020, 09:36 PM   #3740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
I don't think you have the requisite background to understand that paper, for one.

Second, it's all speculative, holy shit. Do you know what's even more speculative than that paper? Thinking it's a fucking bioweapon when there is ZERO evidence. Giving credence to such outlandish conspiracy theories is dangerous and I thought something that would be beneath you, but apparently not.

I can give even more simple and logical reasons why it's not a bioweapon later. The only BS here is being spouted by you. This paper you think is speculative BS has been cited by at least 3 of the top virlogists in the US, btw. Maybe you should argue with the likes of Ralph Baric out of UNC who has spent his entire life researching coronaviruses, since you know better.

The level of ignorance you have displayed is staggering.
Well you would be wrong because I was first published at 14 years old. I work in drug development and have a product going through the FDA as we speak.

But you keep doing you.

And understand. I'm not saying that it is or it isn't a bioweapon. I'm stating that they can't, legitimately, tell you that it isn't with any certainty.
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Lewi6, First of His Name, Destroyer of Careers, Master of Pole Positions, 6X WDC, Master of All Tracks, Scorer of Maximum Points, Whisperer of Tires, Minimizer of Fuel Utilization, Maximizer of Consistency in Finishing. Look Upon Him With DRED.
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