[G30M]

12.94 mile / 20.832km @ 7:44.881 (FK8 did 7:43.80 over 12.8 miles / 20.6km)

Pilot Sport Cup 2 Connect tires (option vs stock Pilot Sport 4S)

March 24, 2023

[G30M]

surely the most "unstable" record i've ever watched, the car backside is sliding all over the place, plus understeer at carousel, 4 wheel slides intermingled, one big correction when a wheel went on the grass ....

[heavyD^2]

Is it an actual factory production car or a pre-production ringer like the FK8 was that set the previous ring time?

[G30M]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Is it an actual factory production car or a pre-production ringer like the FK8 was that set the previous ring time?

factory production car as far as we know.

it was only set last month

they have been spotted doing laps in November when they hired the Ring for 48 hrs but nothing came out of that, so presumably they failed, and they knew what they needed to do, and hence the driver drove the wheels of this thing, maybe changed the tires too

[G30M]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Is it an actual factory production car or a pre-production ringer like the FK8 was that set the previous ring time?

wait ... it looks like you might be smelling the right direction ...

"It has been confirmed that the Civic in the video is a lightweight variant known as the S-Grade, a model not offered in any right-hand drive markets. It is some 47kg lighter than a standard Type R thanks to no satnav, no air conditioning, no parking sensors, and forged alloys."

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by g21

surely the most "unstable" record i've ever watched, the car backside is sliding all over the place, plus understeer at carousel, 4 wheel slides intermingled, one big correction when a wheel went on the grass ....

Definitely browned his trousers on the run up the hill towards carousel

[x622]

That lap was terrible, I still don't comprehend why the fanboys like this car when there are so many other options are are just if not more engaging.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by x622

That lap was terrible,

It's a record setting lap.
I'd like to see you doing better

[RM7]

It's amazing considering AWD cars like the STI are at 8:06, 8:10 (the heavily modified one that was sub 7 was a built race car, not the same thing)

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by g21

wait ... it looks like you might be smelling the right direction ...

"It has been confirmed that the Civic in the video is a lightweight variant known as the S-Grade, a model not offered in any right-hand drive markets. It is some 47kg lighter than a standard Type R thanks to no satnav, no air conditioning, no parking sensors, and forged alloys."

I'm also pretty confident this ringer isn't likely running a stock tune or fully emissions compliant so just like with the FK8, Honda has misled the public who will just look at the time and think any CTR rolling off the assembly line is capable enough to put up a time like this. The CTR is a great car and all and I'm sure a stock one would still lap well but to me this time is as meaningless as any modded car time recorded on the ring when discussing capabilities of the cars in the showroom.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

I'm also pretty confident this ringer isn't likely running a stock tune or fully emissions compliant so just like with the FK8, Honda has misled the public who will just look at the time and think any CTR rolling off the assembly line is capable enough to put up a time like this. The CTR is a great car and all and I'm sure a stock one would still lap well but to me this time is as meaningless as any modded car time recorded on the ring when discussing capabilities of the cars in the showroom.

Race one at autoX or a track event and come back and discuss. I have. This car is the real deal (in its weight/power/size class).

[x622]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

It's a record setting lap.
I'd like to see you doing better

Tu quoque logical fallacy detected.

It's a sloppy lap, has nothing to do with the driver, looks like he's doing all he can to keep it contained.

Stay mad, I guess.

[M3WC]

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/04/ho...to-u-s-or-u-k/

"Michelin launched the Connect in 2020 and they’re fully road legal, but the rub here is that if you want them for your Civic Type R in Europe where the record was set, you can’t get them from Honda, you have to buy them direct from Michelin. They are available to order from Honda dealers in Asia and the U.S., however, so Honda is able to claim that they’re ‘production’ tires."

"The record was set with a special lightweight version of the hot Civic called the Type R S grade or Type R S, a fact that wasn’t referenced at all in the North American media release and received only a passing mention in Honda Europe’s, which said only that model was a special grade only offered in LHD European markets."


So the special edition is available only in Europe, but the tires used are only offered from the dealers in US/Asia markets.

Technically this car and tire combo doesn't exist from any Honda dealer.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by RM7

It's amazing considering AWD cars like the STI are at 8:06, 8:10 (the heavily modified one that was sub 7 was a built race car, not the same thing)

this car is fast no doubt.

record however ... a little dubious but they'll claim it if it is rubber stamped by the powers that be, why wouldn't they!

[TargaM2]

https://youtu.be/MuCOZryZg-s

[G30M]

thanks i was waiting for Misha lol

[G30M]

extra cheat - strong evidence
- ?shorter gearing based on shifting vs other people who have lapped the ring (but i analyzed and found the gearing to be the same)
- car running high boost on his screen 1.5-1.8bar at 4th, 5th & 6th gear vs the factory cars maxing out at 1.4bar. this car was in 4th and 5th gear most of the lap. it wouldn't have gotten the record otherwise

if you read the comments there are more experts giving their opinion like not stock oil cooler! lol

[TargaM2]

This is not the first time Honda have been caught out trying to beat Renault Sport.

[Humdizzle]

strong evidence of cheating.

[x622]

Originally Posted by g21

thanks i was waiting for Misha lol

Wrecked.


Honda used to make great stuff too.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by x622

Tu quoque logical fallacy detected.

close, but no cigar.

The "tu quoque" fallacy revolves around the argument that the person making the statement about something bad displays the same behaviour (which doesn't take away that the behaviour is bad, that's the logical part in it).
That is clearly not the case here.
Wiki explains it better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
It would have been a tu quoque argument if I had said that your driving around a track is just as sloppy.
But in reality we have no idea what it takes to drive this fast around the nordschleife. Probably none of us here do.
I bet most of us haven't even driven there...

It's a sloppy lap, has nothing to do with the driver, looks like he's doing all he can to keep it contained.

I guess bachelors' wives and maidens' children are well taught.

Originally Posted by g21

thanks i was waiting for Misha lol

Saddest part about this video is when Misha makes a comparison to other cars that are now either phased out or gone...
The hot hatch is a dying breed

[G30M]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

close, but no cigar.

The "tu quoque" fallacy revolves around the argument that the person making the statement about something bad displays the same behaviour (which doesn't take away that the behaviour is bad, that's the logical part in it).
That is clearly not the case here.
Wiki explains it better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
It would have been a tu quoque argument if I had said that your driving around a track is just as sloppy.
But in reality we have no idea what it takes to drive this fast around the nordschleife. Probably none of us here do.
I bet most of us haven't even driven there...



I guess bachelors' wives and maidens' children are well taught.


Saddest part about this video is when Misha makes a comparison to other cars that are now either phased out or gone...
The hot hatch is a dying breed

they tried for 48 hrs in Nov and took lots of notes and knew exactly what was needed. even with all the official weight saving and track tire they still needed to drive the wheels of that thing.

I watched the incumbent record's video and the Megane was also sliding all over the place, but man the sound of that car was amazing, and it was much more agile - what a car! (no idea if they were cheating but it was amazing)

it's not that hot hatches are dying, manufacturers have lost their mind nowadays, everyone making cars that are close to 1000hp and you can't put down 1000hp into a small car.