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      02-22-2016, 11:45 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by XsltAnalyst View Post
It all depends on what your interests are and what you want this trip to be. However, I would recommend reducing the number of big cities and adding places that are recommended by previous posters. If you're dropping off the car at Munich, then consider doing a clockwise tour
I am dropping the car off at Munich at the end. I am going to do a clockwise tour, we are dropping Bern off our list. The only thing I want to see in Bern are the bears, but they are hibernating at that time. We may cross off Lausanne, and we will be spending my birthday in Zurich. Then probably head east to Austria. Nothing is set in stone yet!
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      02-23-2016, 07:07 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hanszilla
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Originally Posted by XsltAnalyst View Post
It all depends on what your interests are and what you want this trip to be. However, I would recommend reducing the number of big cities and adding places that are recommended by previous posters. If you're dropping off the car at Munich, then consider doing a clockwise tour
I am dropping the car off at Munich at the end. I am going to do a clockwise tour, we are dropping Bern off our list. The only thing I want to see in Bern are the bears, but they are hibernating at that time. We may cross off Lausanne, and we will be spending my birthday in Zurich. Then probably head east to Austria. Nothing is set in stone yet!
It's too bad most of the alpine roads won't be open at bat time(April)
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      02-23-2016, 10:33 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
I think this is it.

I read this was the way through the alps. Perhaps both are?

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      02-23-2016, 10:58 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
I read this was the way through the alps. Perhaps both are?

I would agree with you. The route shown above is through the flat countryside of southern Bavaria. Your route appears to get up in to the Alps (at least the foothills).
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      02-23-2016, 11:15 AM   #49
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Probably already been said, but as a semi-local, I'd say the top stuff for Munich would be:

1. Augustiner Keller
2. Deutsches Museum
3. Deutsches Museum flight extension (flugwerft) in Oberschleissheim. Some cool planes there.
4. Shopping in Stachus (downtown)
5. Dachau KZ (Dachau is also a town, the KZ is the camp). Outside of the camp there is also WWII architecture, SS barracks (to the NW I think) and an old SS range that has some history to it.
6. Visit Nymphenburg palace
7. Visit the Viktualienmarkt, its off Frauen strasse. Some cool foods there. Pickled little pumpkins with cream cheese in them are my favorite to get there. Also have canned and jarred stuff to bring home.
8. BMW / Mueseum / Tours / Olympia Tower, etc. That can all be done on one day.
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      02-23-2016, 11:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by jwzimm View Post
I would agree with you. The route shown above is through the flat countryside of southern Bavaria. Your route appears to get up in to the Alps (at least the foothills).
Speaking of Alpine routes, will there be an issue to drive from Stuttgart to Geneva and then east bound toward Austria in April ?
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      02-24-2016, 08:38 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by verruckt View Post
Probably already been said, but as a semi-local, I'd say the top stuff for Munich would be:

1. Augustiner Keller
Absolutely! This was where we spent our last day/night in Germany. We dropped off the car at LogInOut by noon on Saturday, checked in at Eurostars (by the Hauptbahnhof and across the street from AK) and literally spent the whole afternoon/evening there eating and drinking. It's really a must do.



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Originally Posted by verruckt View Post
5. Dachau KZ (Dachau is also a town, the KZ is the camp). Outside of the camp there is also WWII architecture, SS barracks (to the NW I think) and an old SS range that has some history to it.
It's a very peaceful town, which makes the history all the more disturbing. The SS barracks area is here, right outside the main entrance. In this pic, this was the house of the SS Commandant that they have re-purposed to be the Police station. On our tour there was mention that outside of the townspeople, this re-purposing is not well received at all. Some in our group were actually pretty angry.

The old SS firing range I would say has some very sinister history to it from what I recall.....

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      02-24-2016, 01:01 PM   #52
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If you're going to be in Munich sometime between April 15 and May 1st, check out Fruhlingsfest (Spring Festival). It's held at the same place as Oktoberfest, at Theresienwiese. It's done to a smaller scale than Oktoberfest, but it's very much worth checking out, especially to get inside one of the tents for a liter of beer and some food.

https://www.facebook.com/events/488906934593941/
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      02-28-2016, 04:39 PM   #53
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Arrow re: Speaking of Alpine routes...

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Originally Posted by hanszilla View Post
Speaking of Alpine routes, will there be an issue to drive from Stuttgart to Geneva and then east bound toward Austria in April ?
No, it shouldn't be a problem.


Have you thought about driving some passes while in Switzerland ?

Maybe a route something like this...
https://www.google.de/maps/dir/Stutt...1981!3e0?hl=en

These are my two all time favorite passes...

Klausenpass, Spiringen, Switzerland

and...

Furka Pass, Obergoms, Switzerland

I would stay here, near the start of the Furka Pass...

Hotel Glocke (located in the Goms valley, a small but charming hotel)

Hotel Glocke
Engelmatt 6
3998 Reckingen VS,
Switzerland

www.glocke.ch


You can see pics of the hotel and of my Alpine adventure driving tour here...

Dackel's Swiss Alpine tour...
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=878216


Flüela Pass, Susch, Switzerland - is also another nice pass to drive. More flat than a curvy high alpine pass - but fun never the less. It runs into Davos.

Most of these passes should be open - depending on the winter snow fall. But the best plan is to check the local Pass's websites - to make sure they are open for driving!!

Btw... the Furka Pass was made famous in the James Bond film: Golden Eye...




also the large hotel shown in the opening scene(Grand Hotel Glacier du Rhône) is still there and makes for a nice "coffee" or lunch stop.

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      03-07-2016, 02:49 PM   #54
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Hope you have a great time !

It's hard to know how to respond to these posts as you never know if people want the "tourist response" or the "drivers response"... See the sights or drive the roads... Sometimes they can be combined, but often times they are mutually exclusive. We went for maximum seat time, as I noted in my ED journal.

One thing I will definitely do every time I go back (since I am really into food/restaurants) is eat at Schloss Schauenstein, which is relatively close to the whole Furka/Grimsel area. I cannot recommend it highly enough. People come from all over the world to eat at this place, and the experience was one of many highlights of my trip. That's my little contribution to this thread :P
Schloss Schauenstein


Contrary to someone else's post, I find the "high end" restaurants in Munich to be rather mediocre, compared to other places. I wouldn't waste time and money on those. I would/will spend time at Augustiner Keller again, just hanging out and chatting, drinking beer and eating basic food (which I thought was good). That's really what Munich does best: comfort food and beer.
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      03-07-2016, 07:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by absoluteis350 View Post
Hope you have a great time !

It's hard to know how to respond to these posts as you never know if people want the "tourist response" or the "drivers response"... See the sights or drive the roads... Sometimes they can be combined, but often times they are mutually exclusive. We went for maximum seat time, as I noted in my ED journal.

One thing I will definitely do every time I go back (since I am really into food/restaurants) is eat at Schloss Schauenstein, which is relatively close to the whole Furka/Grimsel area. I cannot recommend it highly enough. People come from all over the world to eat at this place, and the experience was one of many highlights of my trip. That's my little contribution to this thread :P
Schloss Schauenstein


Contrary to someone else's post, I find the "high end" restaurants in Munich to be rather mediocre, compared to other places. I wouldn't waste time and money on those. I would/will spend time at Augustiner Keller again, just hanging out and chatting, drinking beer and eating basic food (which I thought was good). That's really what Munich does best: comfort food and beer.
Ok im into food as the next person. Im a wine collector and dont shy away from the good places to eat, but a three course meal for $200+ (not including booze) for one person and portions to small for my cat is a little on the annoying side. Even if I could have sex with the waitress and I was tipped $50 bux for it id still have second thoughts.
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      03-07-2016, 08:17 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cipri View Post
every tourist goes to hopfbrauhaus,it is extremely crowded and noisy , service is bad , food is even worse and the beer is the same as in other places , there are plenty of other beer gardens that are much better and carry different brands of beer

locals go to smaller beer gardens
I disagree on the H-hause food and service being bad (food is exactly what you expect form German cuisine - simple and hearty, anything but sophisticated). Service was adequate, but busy.

All true on the observation that there are dozens of local beer gardens where you will find more locals.
Alas, my German is minimal, and hanging out with other tourists and English speakers at H-hause was the best part of eating there. I ran into a troupe of British theater actors one night, and we had a ball comparing notes on local German customs, culture, and behavior patterns.

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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
[...] three course meal for $200+ (not including booze) for one person and portions to small for my cat is a little on the annoying side.
$200+ and no German beer?
@#$% that!

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      03-08-2016, 07:28 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
I disagree on the H-hause food and service being bad (food is exactly what you expect form German cuisine - simple and hearty, anything but sophisticated). Service was adequate, but busy.

All true on the observation that there are dozens of local beer gardens where you will find more locals.
Alas, my German is minimal, and hanging out with other tourists and English speakers at H-hause was the best part of eating there.
I loved the Hofbrauhaus. Food wasn't exceptional, but was exactly what you'd want it to be....German comfort food. Hearty and rich....perfect to accompany good German beer. Hell, I could have sat there drinking beer and eating those huge pretzels all night.

Granted, I loved Augustiner-Keller far more than Hofbrauhaus.....just because it "felt" a little more like a local hangout and the beer was better. Pretzels not as good though! But there was a huge tourist contingent there as well.

We had 2 German "fine dining" experiences while in Germany. One was at Alpenrose am See in Hohenschwangau/Neuschwanstein....again, German comfort food but with a finer dining flair. The wienerschnitzel was ridiculous. The other place was at a fantastic restaurant inside of the Hotel Die Hirschgasse Heidelberg.

I much prefer a nice relaxing, traditional place with the comfort food, pretzels and beer.....
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      03-09-2016, 12:10 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Ok im into food as the next person. Im a wine collector and dont shy away from the good places to eat, but a three course meal for $200+ (not including booze) for one person and portions to small for my cat is a little on the annoying side. Even if I could have sex with the waitress and I was tipped $50 bux for it id still have second thoughts.
Hah.. I agree, that would be silliness.. but what place are you talking about? Surely you weren't implying Schauenstein ? That place was essentially an entire evening experience, starting with free black car service to/from your hotel in the surrounding towns, an amazing cocktail reception period/room, too many dinner courses to count, each just as amazing as the one before, ending in a relaxed finale where you were taken to an ornate chamber (I call it that because "room" doesn't do it justice) to enjoy any after dinner drinks, amazing petite fours, all while the fire crackles in the background and the room is lit with a warm fiery glow. We were alone at this stage as others had retired to various other rooms, and it was an amazing, romantic time. After this, we could have retired to the drinks chamber (I guess the bar, but that would be crude) to sit with the chef and just shoot the shit. The entire thing combined, was maybe 5 hours, and it wasn't all just sitting down at your table (which would drive me stir crazy). The castle should be a museum, it is of that quality. Basically, just a stunning evening.

Like I said, I don't plan on doing any ED without visiting Schauenstein (every time); and I don't say that lightly
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      03-09-2016, 12:18 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by absoluteis350 View Post
Hah.. I agree, that would be silliness.. but what place are you talking about? Surely you weren't implying Schauenstein ? That place was essentially an entire evening experience, starting with free black car service to/from your hotel in the surrounding towns, an amazing cocktail reception period/room, too many dinner courses to count, each just as amazing as the one before, ending in a relaxed finale where you were taken to an ornate chamber (I call it that because "room" doesn't do it justice) to enjoy any after dinner drinks, amazing petite fours, all while the fire crackles in the background and the room is lit with a warm fiery glow. We were alone at this stage as others had retired to various other rooms, and it was an amazing, romantic time. After this, we could have retired to the drinks chamber (I guess the bar, but that would be crude) to sit with the chef and just shoot the shit. The entire thing combined, was maybe 5 hours, and it wasn't all just sitting down at your table (which would drive me stir crazy). The castle should be a museum, it is of that quality. Basically, just a stunning evening.

Like I said, I don't plan on doing any ED without visiting Schauenstein (every time); and I don't say that lightly
Given your description of the overall experience it makes the price more palatable.

Schloss Schauenstein

From their website

lunch and dinner (per person)

3 courses CHF 198.00
4 courses CHF 219.00
5 courses CHF 235.00
6 courses CHF 259.00
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      03-09-2016, 12:25 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Sassicaia View Post
Given your description of the overall experience it makes the price more palatable.

Schloss Schauenstein

From their website

lunch and dinner (per person)

3 courses CHF 198.00
4 courses CHF 219.00
5 courses CHF 235.00
6 courses CHF 259.00
Ah yea, I see where you got that from now. Ya, not sure anyone does 3 courses, as that would be silliness (as you said). We did the "all in" (as it doesn't make much sense to do 3 courses) and, judging from the length of everyone else's meal, I'm pretty sure everyone else did too. I think the only variation we noticed is that some people only did 5 courses as they didn't want desert or whatever that 6th course was. In any case, as you probably know, it's only 6 'main' courses, with multiple small in between dishes, palate cleansers, greetings from the chef, etc. I did not leave hungry, nor did I feel like there weren't enough courses. Certainly to fill an entire evening, it's more than just 6 courses (pretty sure we spent 7:30-12:30 there, and only left because we wanted to let the staff go home and to bed). Obviously, it was expensive, but we did feel it was worth it when the entire evening was taken into consideration, and the absolutely stunning location (it really is an old castle, and feels like you are eating inside someone's renaissance palace). It certainly surpassed my own expectations. Also, I believe the wine choices, being local Austrian, were cheaper than you find at typical expensive restaurants.

There is no comparison between this place, and eating in Munich for half the price. The latter being a waste of money, now that I see the chasm of difference between the two experiences. But yea, I wouldn't recommend it if you weren't into these experiences or weren't planning on spending half that much eating out in Munich.
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      03-09-2016, 12:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by absoluteis350 View Post
Ah yea, I see where you got that from now. Ya, not sure anyone does 3 courses, as that would be silliness (as you said). We did the "all in" (as it doesn't make much sense to do 3 courses) and, judging from the length of everyone else's meal, I'm pretty sure everyone else did too. I think the only variation we noticed is that some people only did 5 courses as they didn't want desert or whatever that 6th course was. In any case, as you probably know, it's only 6 'main' courses, with multiple small in between dishes, palate cleansers, greetings from the chef, etc. I did not leave hungry, nor did I feel like there weren't enough courses. Certainly to fill an entire evening, it's more than just 6 courses (pretty sure we spent 7:30-12:30 there, and only left because we wanted to let the staff go home and to bed). Obviously, it was expensive, but we did feel it was worth it when the entire evening was taken into consideration, and the absolutely stunning location (it really is an old castle, and feels like you are eating inside someone's renaissance palace). It certainly surpassed my own expectations. Also, I believe the wine choices, being local Austrian, were cheaper than you find at typical expensive restaurants.

There is no comparison between this place, and eating in Munich for half the price. The latter being a waste of money, now that I see the chasm of difference between the two experiences. But yea, I wouldn't recommend it if you weren't into these experiences or weren't planning on spending half that much eating out in Munich.
Ah ok, well that makes more sense. In my neck of the woods a 5 course meal usually means 3-4 small dishes and one large.

regardless i check my reservation my hotel Belagio for 4 nights and figured if we cancel one night there it could equal close to one night and a meal at Schloss Schauenstein. Since we will be driving right past it from Konstanz to Bellagio I emailed to see if they have availability for a room and dinner reservation on the 26th of May. If they do then might as well give it a shot. Ill be honest one of the main things selling me at this point is that they have a cigar lounge.

Seems like it could be a great all around experience. If we do go there we will be arriving mid day. Any suggestions of what we can do in the area from 12 noon until dinner time taking into consideration it will be end of May?

Will they laugh at me seeking a reservation with two months notice? They arent going to come back asking me which year I mean are they?
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      03-09-2016, 01:13 PM   #62
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I think I made the resi 4-5 weeks in advance, and they were extremely accommodating about everything. I don't recall having a problem, but I don't know how 'seasonal' it is (we went in October). I'm not sure if they book up way in advance?

The hotel people typically stay at (since the castle hotel is obscenely expensive) is Hotel Weiss Kreuz in Thusis, from which they picked up and dropped us off free of charge. The hotel is clean, well run, but no frills. I think we got it for $120? Again, may be seasonal pricing.

Their smoking room was simply phenomenal (cigar room). Again, it's more like an entire castle chamber, decorated ornately and painted in red, with lavish furnishings, and a crackling fire. And you pretty much have it all to yourself, perhaps for maybe a couple other people. My wife would have killed me had I smoked a cigar there, but I went in multiple times just to see it, because it was so beautifully done.

Unfortunately, there is absolutely nothing to do in the immediate area, as far as I can tell. What we did, was drive Furka/Grimsel/Susten earlier in the day. The actual way we did it was leave Thusis at 8/9 am, drive the passes (including Oberalpen) and then drive back for dinner. So in that sense, there is stuff to do, but it's not in the immediate vicinity. Instead of arriving at noon, I would drive to one of the passes that isn't too far away, and do that until dinner.

edit- Thusis or Furnstenau to Andermatt via the Oberalpen pass is 2 hours one way on google maps, so if you arrive at noon, that is plenty of time to drive that pass and back. Andermatt is a pretty cute town that might be nice to grab lunch in anyway.

edit 2- I'm pretty sure they had free "all you can drink" house made brandy at the very end of the night with your little complimentary chocolates and pastries in the greeting/departure room (picture below), where you could hang out and get blasted if you hadn't had enough to drink by this stage ;P Of course, it's night time when you are there so the lighting is softer and warmer.

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      03-09-2016, 02:05 PM   #63
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Awesome. When you say the castle is obscenely expensive am I looking at the right thing? Theirs say 370 CHF which is about 370 USD (470 CDN)...certainly on the expensive side but no where near what I have seen other hotels (not even the top of the line) go for in various cities around europe. Is this what you were quoted because I assume Oct rates would be similar to May rates given both a shoulder seasons.

http://www.schauenstein.ch/guestrooms/room-wasser


All you can drink brandy?! This place is starting to sound better and better.

I have to ask. Why is your wife allowed to decide if you can smoke a cigar or not? Unless you have lung cancer?

I remember I was drinking a 2L Boot of beer at the Waldhaus in Banff in front of a fire with my wife next to me. A man came over and asked if he could take a picture of my beer. I asked why he didnt just order one for himself and he said "my wife wont let me".






I felt very bad for him ;(
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      03-10-2016, 07:58 AM   #64
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LOL

I like your meal and beverage (re: size) ! Hah. We would have got along swimmingly in Munich Very good question about the cigar room, tho. Not sure how it worked out that way Yea, I think since we were booking about 3-4 weeks in advance, the only things left were the $660/night rooms, which I was not about to pay if I could get a perfectly reasonable room for $120. Don't quote me on the brandy tho, I believe that was the case, but I had drunk quite a bit up to that point so I might be mixing up restaurants Pretty sure I do remember him bringing the brandy bottle over when we were relaxing in the lounging room after dinner.

In any case, if you do go, please post up your ED journal and let me know this place was
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      03-10-2016, 09:26 AM   #65
Sassicaia
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LOL

I like your meal and beverage (re: size) ! Hah. We would have got along swimmingly in Munich Very good question about the cigar room, tho. Not sure how it worked out that way Yea, I think since we were booking about 3-4 weeks in advance, the only things left were the $660/night rooms, which I was not about to pay if I could get a perfectly reasonable room for $120. Don't quote me on the brandy tho, I believe that was the case, but I had drunk quite a bit up to that point so I might be mixing up restaurants Pretty sure I do remember him bringing the brandy bottle over when we were relaxing in the lounging room after dinner.

In any case, if you do go, please post up your ED journal and let me know this place was
I just got a reply saying the restaurant has room, but the hotel is booked so they said they could book us a room where you stayed. How's the parking at Weiss Kreuz? We will be going through San Barnardino pass to get there coming from Lake of Konstanz on our way to bellagio and then hitting furka etc on our way to Strasbourg from bellagio, so won't do that to kill time. Are their hikes or places to ride bikes in the area you're aware of?
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      03-11-2016, 07:48 AM   #66
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I just got a reply saying the restaurant has room, but the hotel is booked so they said they could book us a room where you stayed. How's the parking at Weiss Kreuz? We will be going through San Barnardino pass to get there coming from Lake of Konstanz on our way to bellagio and then hitting furka etc on our way to Strasbourg from bellagio, so won't do that to kill time. Are their hikes or places to ride bikes in the area you're aware of?
Weiss Kreuz was fine for the night we stayed there. It's a pretty small town, but it is in the Alps so I imagine there must be hiking and/or biking around there.. To tell you the truth, since we didn't really do that, I can't really give you an educated answer

The hotel is on the main (or only) street in Thussis, and you turn into the alley immediately beside the hotel and go behind it to the hotel parking lot. The lot is linear, but the spaces are generally pretty reasonable. Since this is the hotel most of the guests for the restaurant stay at, there are some nice cars there so I wasn't too worried. Here is a picture of the spot we parked in, and my parking spot neighbor. Pretty satisfactory. Just make sure you tell the hotel that you are eating at the restaurant so they can arrange for the A7 black car to come get you at a specific time. Don't be afraid to show up too early... hanging out in the 'greeting chamber' (pictured earlier) and drinking/chatting was really quite nice.

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Completed (summer tires)- Grossglockner alpenstrasse, Gardena pass, Fluela pass, Oberalp pass, Furka pass, Grimsel pass, Susten pass, col de Vars, col de la Bonette, col de Turini
Singapore Grey Euro Delivery Diary Monday Oct 19
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