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      10-02-2020, 11:14 AM   #45
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And that classic Mopar starter noise. Everytime i hear that sound i know a Mopar is about to start!
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      10-04-2020, 10:05 AM   #46
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BMW does know how many Z4s it would sell with a manual, they have sales for the prior generation as evidence and what they obviously concluded was that demand does not equal cost. Despite enthusiasts claiming they will buy a manual version, they never do, (see Cadillac CTS-V Wagon; Hyundai G70 manual and thge take rate on other models).
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      10-04-2020, 02:00 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
BMW does know how many Z4s it would sell with a manual, they have sales for the prior generation as evidence and what they obviously concluded was that demand does not equal cost. Despite enthusiasts claiming they will buy a manual version, they never do, (see Cadillac CTS-V Wagon; Hyundai G70 manual and thge take rate on other models).
The truth of the matter is that Cadillac is introducing a new ultra-high performance CT-5-V sedan in early 2021 called the Blackwing that will feature a 6-speed manual transmission. Your assertion that people "never do" buy manuals despite expressing enthusiasm for them doesn't stand up to objective scrutiny.

Cadillac CT4-V, CT5-V Blackwing Officially Coming With Manual Gearbox
https://www.motor1.com/news/409563/c...ing-announced/

2021 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Boasts 650 HP and a Manual
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...onfirmed-2021/
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      10-04-2020, 03:10 PM   #48
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"Your assertion that people "never do" buy manuals despite expressing enthusiasm for them doesn't stand up to objective scrutiny"

It does. Less and less manuals are bought, and few sports cars come with them because there is little to no demand.

I am glad Cadillac is doing that, but that only proves they hope people will buy, not that they will buy, and it is likely to be a failure based on objective facts that manual sales continue to decline.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/15/manu...ick-shift.html
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      10-05-2020, 07:19 AM   #49
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"Cadillac is introducing a new ultra-high performance CT-5-V sedan in early 2021 called the Blackwing that will feature a 6-speed manual transmission."

As of last spring it was true, we will see. But what is so telling is what every article says, "..a 6-speed manual pairing will give this model the distinction of being the only vehicle in its class with a manual transmission." So not one other manufacturer thinks they can sell enough manuals. Plus I bet sales are so low, that the manual is discontinued in a year or two. "In a statement provided to Road & Track, a Genesis spokesperson confirmed the manual G70 will be discontinued for the 2022 model year. The company says it sold around 100 examples for the 2020 model year (around 0.8 percent of G70 sales in 2019), and couldn't justify continuing to offer the transmission as an option.
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      10-05-2020, 07:37 AM   #50
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Yes True

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinPowers007 View Post
You can buy a Z4 with 6MT manual transmission in Europe and Australia. Why not here in the USA?? C'mon BMW!
Totally agreed. Even I wonder this sometimes.
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      10-05-2020, 01:06 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
"Cadillac is introducing a new ultra-high performance CT-5-V sedan in early 2021 called the Blackwing that will feature a 6-speed manual transmission."

As of last spring it was true, we will see. But what is so telling is what every article says, "..a 6-speed manual pairing will give this model the distinction of being the only vehicle in its class with a manual transmission." So not one other manufacturer thinks they can sell enough manuals. Plus I bet sales are so low, that the manual is discontinued in a year or two. "In a statement provided to Road & Track, a Genesis spokesperson confirmed the manual G70 will be discontinued for the 2022 model year. The company says it sold around 100 examples for the 2020 model year (around 0.8 percent of G70 sales in 2019), and couldn't justify continuing to offer the transmission as an option.
FYI, Cadillac recently reconfirmed that it plans to introduce the forthcoming Blackwing with a six speed manual transmission. Not sure why you're such a naysayer. Clearly, you don't appreciate the joy and unadulterated excitement of driving a stick. Contrary to your naysaying narrative, manual transmissions aren't going extinct anytime soon, as evidenced by the fact that BMW continues to offer a 6MT on the 230i, M240i, and M2, as well as the next-generation M3 and M4. It's a pity we can't get a Z4 with a stick in North America yet, but I'm not giving up hope.

2021 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Spied Looking Production Ready
https://www.motor1.com/news/447088/2...ackwing-spied/

Last edited by AustinPowers007; 10-05-2020 at 03:54 PM..
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      10-06-2020, 10:57 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinPowers007 View Post
It's a pity we can't get a Z4 with a stick in North America yet, but I'm not giving up hope.
Curious but would you really want the 20i base engine anyhow or just willing to compromise to get the manual?

Aside from the shrinking manual market share, North American buyers aren't typically anywhere near as keen to buy the low HP versions of a sportscar and I suspect that may be the reason why the 20i hasn't been marketed here.

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      10-06-2020, 12:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
Curious but would you really want the 20i base engine anyhow or just willing to compromise to get the manual?

Aside from the shrinking manual market share, North American buyers aren't typically anywhere near as keen to buy the low HP versions of a sportscar and I suspect that may be the reason why the 20i hasn't been marketed here.

Dave
In an ideal world, I would prefer to have the manual in one of the higher-performance Z4 variants (30i or 40i), but I'd be happy to settle for the 20i base engine if that's what it would take to get the manual. The silver lining is that the lighter weight of the base engine makes the car more agile, which would partially offset the lower horsepower performance from a "fun to drive" perspective.
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      10-06-2020, 04:57 PM   #54
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Maybe you should ask Toyota....I suspect the Supra would have a higher take rate than a Z4 manual.
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      10-07-2020, 07:22 AM   #55
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Another one bites the dust....https://jalopnik.com/mercedes-benz-g...ort-1845286833
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      10-07-2020, 10:33 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
Yes, but as the article points out:

"Mercedes hasn't sold a manual transmission on a car in the U.S. since the death of the 2015 SLK 250, so this news will only actually be a big deal for the Europeans and the rest of the globe."
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      10-11-2020, 07:02 AM   #57
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Its funny how AustinPowers007 (with that name small ego much) has to go to insults "Clearly, you don't appreciate the joy and unadulterated excitement of driving a stick." 2 of my 3 personal cars are sticks (Corvair Corsa 4 speed manual, 911 six speed manual). I am just stating the fact that manuals are a feature that has less and less sales, and given the cost to qualify a manual car in the US, including crash test, most companies will not add a manual option since their own internal research shows that: 1. Sales will not be greatly affected; and 2. The cost will exceed the profit if they do offer a manual.

Also, the manual will likely not be offered in the next gen 2 series (you cannot get a manual M240i convertible for example in the current version).

https://www.cars.com/articles/why-ma...r-good-424059/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mournin...on-11599857145

and finally you said, like many others, "... but I'd be happy to settle for the 20i base engine if that's what it would take to get the manual."

Except when that happens (see BMW 318ti, Hyundai G70, etc.) no one bought them.

I like the new Z4, I owned a Z3M and a Z4M and if the they offered a Z4 six cylinder with a manual I would be interested in that as well. I won an 8 speed auto in my BMW, its the best autobox out there, but I would not want one in a sports car.
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      10-11-2020, 03:15 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post
(you cannot get a manual M240i convertible for example in the current one)
Contrary to your false assertion, Mr. Posner, the current (2021) M240i convertible can definitely be ordered with a manual transmission. Perhaps you should do a little research before making unfounded claims.

For the record, I just built a 2021 M240i convertible with the 6MT option on the BMW USA website, and here's what it looks like:
Attached Images
 

Last edited by AustinPowers007; 10-12-2020 at 09:10 AM..
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      10-19-2020, 05:51 PM   #59
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Wow this topic is still going! Why make a manual if it doesn't sell. Are we tracking the car with heal toe method in turns? I think not. I want an 8 track player in my Z4.
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      10-19-2020, 11:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasnet View Post
Wow this topic is still going! Why make a manual if it doesn't sell. Are we tracking the car with heal toe method in turns? I think not. I want an 8 track player in my Z4.
This isn't about tracking the car… It's about having ultimate fun in the ultimate driving machine. That's what a 6-speed manual is all about. And I don't accept your premise that it wouldn't sell.
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      10-20-2020, 01:14 AM   #61
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Bmw spent millions every year to perfect the auto trans. Thats the ultimate driving machine.Not a manual. It only exists as a cost saving feature for cheap Europeans. The way my Z4 shifts is what gives me the greatest joy. Test drive one and find out for yourself. Travel to Europe and you better know how to drive a manual. 4 door version of your car is a taxi cab in Europe.
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      10-20-2020, 05:49 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasnet View Post
Bmw spent millions every year to perfect the auto trans. Thats the ultimate driving machine.Not a manual. It only exists as a cost saving feature for cheap Europeans. The way my Z4 shifts is what gives me the greatest joy. Test drive one and find out for yourself. Travel to Europe and you better know how to drive a manual. 4 door version of your car is a taxi cab in Europe.
I don't care how many millions of dollars BMW spent to "perfect the auto transmission." A 6-speed manual is just more fun and involving to drive in a roadster than an auto tranny... as anyone who has driven a Porsche Boxster, Mazda Miata, or earlier generations of the BMW Z can attest.
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      10-21-2020, 06:32 AM   #63
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Mea Culpa, AustinPowers007, you are correct. Even a no cost option!

But this:

https://www.bmwblog.com/2017/06/29/b...north-america/

Also only 2 wheel wheel drive version....
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      11-08-2020, 10:40 AM   #64
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Roadsters have traditionally been poser cars, not surprised BMW did not put 6MT in US variants because people here can barely rev match, burn the clutch and bring the cars and whine about how 'unreliable' these are. I initially complained about M40i not having 6MT/DCT but it's just what BMW decided to do: appeal to posers.
No Z4M is a big bummer, but nothing is going to drive like E86 Z4M with S54 screaming at 8000 sonorous rpm. If they ever release one, I hope it has a NA engine with mild hybrid to satisfy green nazis.
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      12-06-2020, 07:52 AM   #65
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They didn't put a 6MT in the Z4 3.0 in the US cause they don't sell?

Porsche 981 & 982 Spyder have been selling very well...Ferrari California & F430 Spider 6MT's value is off the roof in the used market...Honda S2000's used market? MX5/Miata? Lotus Elise?

People in charge 'perceived' that they won't sell and if Steve Jobs is still around and in charge of the Z4 they would all be sacked. Jobs's answer would be make the damn roadster so engaging to drive that even in a 6MT everyone would want one. Give the customer back the option of which transmission to choose.
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      12-06-2020, 08:06 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinPowers007 View Post
I don't care how many millions of dollars BMW spent to "perfect the auto transmission." A 6-speed manual is just more fun and involving to drive in a roadster than an auto tranny... as anyone who has driven a Porsche Boxster, Mazda Miata, or earlier generations of the BMW Z can attest.
Absolutely...Steve Jobs created something that customers really want without relying on market research. Market research by definition is looking backwards and not creative. Without innovation, one cannot entice customers ongoing. Nokia, Ericson and Sony all spent tens of millions on market research each and look where that took them.

So most companies don't know what customers really want most of the time...
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