BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos Consumer Reports says women have 73% greater serious injury risk from a frontal crash

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-03-2020, 08:23 PM   #1
x986
First Lieutenant
96
Rep
378
Posts

Drives: '16 340, ex e92 335, ex e46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Consumer Reports says women have 73% greater serious injury risk from a frontal crash

It’s in the latest issue. They blame it on the all male crash dummy crew. Does anyone here know about the European standards? Do they happen to use a more rounded set of dummy sizes?

I know "Car Guys" don't like to credit CR, but that is a shocking number. And for 'numbers' kind of stuff, I think they are normally pretty good.
Appreciate 1
      01-04-2020, 02:05 AM   #2
DomiGijzen
Second Lieutenant
DomiGijzen's Avatar
Netherlands
70
Rep
223
Posts

Drives: BMW iX3 MSport High Exec (G08)
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

I think the same message is spread in Europe. The number of 73% however may differ and off course has some additional context. Certainly not 73% change on death. Also small injuries.
__________________
Grz D.!
Appreciate 0
      01-04-2020, 10:47 AM   #3
F32Fleet
Lieutenant General
F32Fleet's Avatar
United_States
3540
Rep
10,327
Posts

Drives: 2015 435i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southeastern US

iTrader: (0)

Type of injury is important. Do they mention it?

In any case women aren't built for taking impacts. Shorter height, lower bone density, bone structure, weight distribution.

Another thing is worse seating position (Comparatively speaking women more often position themselves too close to the steering wheel).
__________________
"Drive more, worry less. "

435i, MPPK, MPE, M-Sport Line
Appreciate 1
Rmtt8206.00
      01-05-2020, 06:10 AM   #4
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16942
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Because they have hooters?
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2020, 12:22 AM   #5
eluded
2JZ-GTE
eluded's Avatar
Bulgaria
2959
Rep
3,948
Posts

Drives: 340 6MT, 50e, others
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sofia

iTrader: (0)

Their chance of injury is greatly reduced when they sit in the backseat.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2020, 02:26 AM   #6
Meeni
Gateropode
Meeni's Avatar
329
Rep
2,848
Posts

Drives: BMW 330i 06
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: TN

iTrader: (0)

I have seen children and woman shaped dummies on crash test videos. Not sure what the reason for the difference in outcome.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2020, 10:47 AM   #7
WestRace
Major
730
Rep
1,087
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

And men have 73% more alcoholism related death lols.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2020, 07:30 PM   #8
TomHudson
Major
658
Rep
1,118
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

What if the dummy identifies as a woman?
Appreciate 3
NickyC17335.50
Alfisti6452.50
      01-10-2020, 10:07 AM   #9
BimmerAg
Lieutenant
BimmerAg's Avatar
United_States
425
Rep
545
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX

iTrader: (0)

Very interesting. The CR article seems to push for the adoption of an average female test dummy, but an industry representative states that the weight of a 2019 average female is actually quite close to the 50th percentile male from the 1970's that the dummy was modeled after (~160 vs 170 lbs, respectively). Also, data shows that the increased risk of injury for females is highest in the arms and legs, which seems to agree with F32Fleet that women sit closer to the steering wheel and pedals, which can increase the chance of injury in frontal crashes.

The article also highlights several times that females are not just smaller versions of males, their structure and "material properties" are different. The article tries to spin this as a reason for needing new tests and dummies that better represent female bodies. If female bodies have weaker "material properties", I'm not sure that anything can really be done to reduce the discrepancy between male and female injuries. As an extreme analogy, if you design a structure that will prevent an egg from breaking when dropped from 5ft, a billiards ball will also survive the same drop. It's not because the test or structure was biased towards the billiards ball, it's just that the material properties are different.
__________________
2011 BMW 135i ///M-Sport, DCT
Bilstein B12 kit, Dinan camber plates, M3 front control arms, Whiteline poly RSFB, MHD Stage 1, cp-e Charge Pipe, H&R Front sway bar, BMW performance diffuser
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2020, 10:15 AM   #10
MPBK
Everyday I'm shuffling
United_States
449
Rep
1,098
Posts

Drives: '12 SG 135i DCT; '18 MG M2 DCT
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
Very interesting. The CR article seems to push for the adoption of an average female test dummy, but an industry representative states that the weight of a 2019 average female is actually quite close to the 50th percentile male from the 1970's that the dummy was modeled after (~160 vs 170 lbs, respectively). Also, data shows that the increased risk of injury for females is highest in the arms and legs, which seems to agree with F32Fleet that women sit closer to the steering wheel and pedals, which can increase the chance of injury in frontal crashes.

The article also highlights several times that females are not just smaller versions of males, their structure and "material properties" are different. The article tries to spin this as a reason for needing new tests and dummies that better represent female bodies. If female bodies have weaker "material properties", I'm not sure that anything can really be done to reduce the discrepancy between male and female injuries. As an extreme analogy, if you design a structure that will prevent an egg from breaking when dropped from 5ft, a billiards ball will also survive the same drop. It's not because the test or structure was biased towards the billiards ball, it's just that the material properties are different.
I think your example contradicts what I understood to be your point.
Current dummies are billiard balls. They want the industry to replace them with egg dummies. That would significantly lower the accident acceptability threshold and significantly add to the car's costs. Otherwise they would have done it already.
It's all driven by money.
Appreciate 1
F32Fleet3539.50
      01-16-2020, 10:33 AM   #11
BimmerAg
Lieutenant
BimmerAg's Avatar
United_States
425
Rep
545
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Antonio, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBK View Post
I think your example contradicts what I understood to be your point.
Current dummies are billiard balls. They want the industry to replace them with egg dummies. That would significantly lower the accident acceptability threshold and significantly add to the car's costs. Otherwise they would have done it already.
It's all driven by money.
I think we're on the same page, I just didn't fully clarify my point. I was trying to point out that if the female dummies were used as the new standard and the accident acceptability threshold was lowered, then the injury rate for female drivers and passengers could be reduced (but the car's cost and weight would increase). But by making the car safer for females, it would also likely reduce the injury rate for male drivers and passengers. Because injury rates would be reduced for both groups, there would still be a discrepancy between males and females.
The article argued that female dummies should be used because females are more likely to be injured in a crash. My point is that even if female dummies are used to set the standard, they will still be more likely to be injured in a crash. I don't think it's possible for the injury rates for males and females to be the same due to the difference in "material properties" between the two.
__________________
2011 BMW 135i ///M-Sport, DCT
Bilstein B12 kit, Dinan camber plates, M3 front control arms, Whiteline poly RSFB, MHD Stage 1, cp-e Charge Pipe, H&R Front sway bar, BMW performance diffuser
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2020, 10:42 AM   #12
MPBK
Everyday I'm shuffling
United_States
449
Rep
1,098
Posts

Drives: '12 SG 135i DCT; '18 MG M2 DCT
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerAg View Post
I think we're on the same page, I just didn't fully clarify my point. I was trying to point out that if the female dummies were used as the new standard and the accident acceptability threshold was lowered, then the injury rate for female drivers and passengers could be reduced (but the car's cost and weight would increase). But by making the car safer for females, it would also likely reduce the injury rate for male drivers and passengers. Because injury rates would be reduced for both groups, there would still be a discrepancy between males and females.
The article argued that female dummies should be used because females are more likely to be injured in a crash. My point is that even if female dummies are used to set the standard, they will still be more likely to be injured in a crash. I don't think it's possible for the injury rates for males and females to be the same due to the difference in "material properties" between the two.
Thanks for your much better explanation. I agree. We are on the same page.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2020, 11:35 AM   #13
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
62737
Rep
24,509
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by x986 View Post
It’s in the latest issue. They blame it on the all male crash dummy crew. Does anyone here know about the European standards? Do they happen to use a more rounded set of dummy sizes?

I know "Car Guys" don't like to credit CR, but that is a shocking number. And for 'numbers' kind of stuff, I think they are normally pretty good.
.
Attached Images
 
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 1
BimmerAg425.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 AM.




bmw
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST