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      03-08-2018, 08:34 AM   #397
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I don't think Tesla is serious about long term automobile production and sales. Musk is more interested in Space X and other tech.
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      03-08-2018, 08:39 AM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
I don't think Tesla is serious about long term automobile production and sales. Musk is more interested in Space X and other tech.
Wellllll....

Tesla is part of his Space X plan-- given that his goal for Space X is Mars colonization, and Mars is lacking in fossil fuels.

That said, he's absolutely setting Tesla up as a battery company first.
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      03-08-2018, 01:08 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE View Post
I don't think Tesla is serious about long term automobile production and sales. Musk is more interested in Space X and other tech.
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      03-08-2018, 01:14 PM   #400
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Basically, Musk is not spending enough time and effort to get the car aspects worked our properly. The issues he's having would normally bankrupt any major company (plenty of people have cited on here about the worth of the company that has no sales volume).

He's missing his opportunity to be the first to market and capitalize on that. The other major car manufacturers are coming with their EVs - big time. I can pretty much guarantee there won't be manufacturing issues, there won't be the flim-flam build quality and there will be major support from the manufacturer to ensure the customer is happy.

Right now, Tesla is banking on the lemmings lining up to give him money. That's not going to last.

A friend of mine had a deposit down for a Model 3. He knows I'm into cars and I kept telling him he's wasting his time and money. He ended up cancelling the Model 3 and is now happily driving a Chevy Bolt. I drove it myself (first EV I ever drove). It's quite entertaining driving with one foot in full-regen mode.

In the end, Tesla will go away I believe. They will not be able to compete once the other cars come out full bore. He messed up his opportunity by dreaming too much.
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      03-08-2018, 01:17 PM   #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyV View Post
They've lost a boat load of sales to Jaguar and Audi in Norway, both the iPace and E-Tron have thousands of pre orders each, alls those would have gone to Tesla a couple of years ago.
I don't know if we can really call it "lost sales" when Tesla can't produce enough cars to fulfill the orders.
I could understand if there were tons of cars seating on the lots produced and unsold.
Anyhow, It's great to see people lining up for EVs.
Big to Tesla for getting the ball rolling

Last edited by AndreyATC; 03-08-2018 at 01:29 PM..
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      03-08-2018, 01:56 PM   #402
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I would definitely call it “lost sales” when Tesla customers who get tired of waiting a year or more take their deposits back and go to another manufacturer to buy a car.
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      03-08-2018, 02:14 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
Basically, Musk is not spending enough time and effort to get the car aspects worked our properly. The issues he's having would normally bankrupt any major company (plenty of people have cited on here about the worth of the company that has no sales volume).

He's missing his opportunity to be the first to market and capitalize on that. The other major car manufacturers are coming with their EVs - big time. I can pretty much guarantee there won't be manufacturing issues, there won't be the flim-flam build quality and there will be major support from the manufacturer to ensure the customer is happy.

Right now, Tesla is banking on the lemmings lining up to give him money. That's not going to last.

A friend of mine had a deposit down for a Model 3. He knows I'm into cars and I kept telling him he's wasting his time and money. He ended up cancelling the Model 3 and is now happily driving a Chevy Bolt. I drove it myself (first EV I ever drove). It's quite entertaining driving with one foot in full-regen mode.

In the end, Tesla will go away I believe. They will not be able to compete once the other cars come out full bore. He messed up his opportunity by dreaming too much.
Given that Tesla's Gigafactory will have more battery production capacity than all the other battery factories in the world combined, there's a least one area where they might end up supply constrained.
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      03-08-2018, 02:20 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Wellllll....

Tesla is part of his Space X plan-- given that his goal for Space X is Mars colonization, and Mars is lacking in fossil fuels.

That said, he's absolutely setting Tesla up as a battery company first.
Exactly
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      03-08-2018, 02:40 PM   #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreyATC View Post
I don't know if we can really call it "lost sales" when Tesla can't produce enough cars to fulfill the orders.
I could understand if there were tons of cars seating on the lots produced and unsold.
Anyhow, It's great to see people lining up for EVs.
Big to Tesla for getting the ball rolling
The problem is, they have never been able to produce enough to satisfy demand through the whole time the company has been in business. That's why people are leaving for other EVs. Also, every car they produce is built to order so of course there's no inventory.
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      03-08-2018, 02:45 PM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
I would definitely call it “lost sales” when Tesla customers who get tired of waiting a year or more take their deposits back and go to another manufacturer to buy a car.
There's a line of people behind them with money in hand, glad that they backed out.
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      03-08-2018, 02:50 PM   #407
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True. We’ll see how long the line is a year from now when there are several more choices on the market. I’ll bet a huge number of Tesla intenders today become other maker EV intenders tomorrow.
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      03-08-2018, 02:52 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The problem is, they have never been able to produce enough to satisfy demand through the whole time the company has been in business. That's why people are leaving for other EVs. Also, every car they produce is built to order so of course there's no inventory.
That's everyone's problem...
No one is able to produce enough EVs, not just Tesla
Tesla is leading the pack in producing most of the EVs and still gaining momentum as it expands its production.
It keeps breaking sales records every year and it's very close to get a lot of Model 3 out the door

P.S. There is an inventory. I bought all 3 of my Teslas through it. You just dont know where to look

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
I would definitely call it “lost sales” when Tesla customers who get tired of waiting a year or more take their deposits back and go to another manufacturer to buy a car.
Many canceled Model 3 orders became purchases of a base Model S
Where would you go if you dont wanna wait for your 3? Bolt, Leaf?
Somehow they are not in such demand
Or you meant tiny Jaguar I-Pace with 70K+ price tag?
Might as well get model X. Better bang for your buck

Last edited by AndreyATC; 03-08-2018 at 03:06 PM..
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      03-08-2018, 03:41 PM   #409
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Seriously, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your favorite mode of transportation. But "many" buyers switching to a $62.7K Model S from a $35K Model 3? Even Tesla can't (won't) support that. I pulled a single word out of your post that describes that scenario: Ludicrous.

I do believe, however, that the Model 3 will be the No. 1-selling EV this year, if Tesla can get them out of the factory - and despite GM's promise this week to increase Bolt production to take the top sales position.
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      03-08-2018, 04:09 PM   #410
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I like Tesla and hope to see them do well. But the Model X is a special kind of ugly. I'd buy a dozen of the Jags before one Model X.
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      03-08-2018, 04:27 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
Seriously, I appreciate your enthusiasm for your favorite mode of transportation. But "many" buyers switching to a $62.7K Model S from a $35K Model 3? Even Tesla can't (won't) support that. I pulled a single word out of your post that describes that scenario: Ludicrous.

I do believe, however, that the Model 3 will be the No. 1-selling EV this year, if Tesla can get them out of the factory - and despite GM's promise this week to increase Bolt production to take the top sales position.
This shows how greatly uninformed people are
Tesla not just going to support it, they'll encourage it!
They make huge margin on selling S and X. So any reservation holder for model 3 is welcomed to the family
And yes, a LOT of people just did that, bought model S
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      03-08-2018, 04:38 PM   #412
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That is not what Tesla corporate has reported.

And what do you think will happen to all those Model 3 wannabes when Tesla hits the 200,000 sales cap for the $7,500 federal tax credits later this year? That phaseout will affect sales.
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      03-08-2018, 04:39 PM   #413
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I've seen a fair number of used Model S's, but that doesn't help Tesla at all. With the drop in resale resulting from dropping the assured valuations, this is also hurting current owners. Lose lose.
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      03-08-2018, 06:46 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Arguing that a BMW has a luxurious interior is amusing. BMW does a lot of things well, but they always have sub standard interiors.
I tend to disagree. My previous e90 328i was one of the best interior quality you can find even today. Seriously even today if you sit and touch materials in e90 - they are a notch above what you can find in entry level modern luxury cars. Tesla is not even close. My current x5 50i is same. X5M is next level with it's leather dash trim - you need to sit and touch and drive and feel. The only other brand that has similar experience is RR and some of Audi (not all models tho). I agree that some BMW modern cars have plastics and it looks cheap - which is surprising as BMW is the only one (if i'm not mistaken who has their own carbon fiber factory (even other brands buy CF from BMW). And yet they can't even implement it in their own models. So yes, there are pluses and minuses.
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      03-08-2018, 07:25 PM   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
Basically, Musk is not spending enough time and effort to get the car aspects worked our properly. The issues he's having would normally bankrupt any major company (plenty of people have cited on here about the worth of the company that has no sales volume).

He's missing his opportunity to be the first to market and capitalize on that. The other major car manufacturers are coming with their EVs - big time. I can pretty much guarantee there won't be manufacturing issues, there won't be the flim-flam build quality and there will be major support from the manufacturer to ensure the customer is happy.

Right now, Tesla is banking on the lemmings lining up to give him money. That's not going to last.

A friend of mine had a deposit down for a Model 3. He knows I'm into cars and I kept telling him he's wasting his time and money. He ended up cancelling the Model 3 and is now happily driving a Chevy Bolt. I drove it myself (first EV I ever drove). It's quite entertaining driving with one foot in full-regen mode.

In the end, Tesla will go away I believe. They will not be able to compete once the other cars come out full bore. He messed up his opportunity by dreaming too much.

Look at their mission statement:

"The Mission of Tesla. Our goal when we created Tesla a decade ago was the same as it is today: to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible."

Did they accelerate the advent of sustainable transport? Yes. Well then mission accomplished. That was the whole point.
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      03-08-2018, 07:30 PM   #416
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      03-08-2018, 08:31 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Did they accelerate the advent of sustainable transport?
No, Tesla didn't. But the federal government did, during the Obama Administration, with CAFE standards that only could be met by electric vehicles in auto manufacturer's fleets. Several years later, the carmakers can't turn back because of the money they've invested in EVs - even after Trump reduces the fuel economy standards later this year. Many EVs have already fallen by the wayside due to a lack of interest on the part of the car-buying public - and it's going to be interesting to see what choices people make when EVs make up a third or more of the available cars in a few years.
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      03-08-2018, 08:36 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spa2k View Post
No, Tesla didn't. But the federal government did, during the Obama Administration, with CAFE standards that only could be met by electric vehicles in auto manufacturer's fleets. Several years later, the carmakers can't turn back because of the money they've invested in EVs - even after Trump reduces the fuel economy standards later this year. Many EVs have already fallen by the wayside due to a lack of interest on the part of the car-buying public - and it's going to be interesting to see what choices people make when EVs make up a third or more of the available cars in a few years.
Of course, those that forget history (or like to revise it) would note Elon Musk laid out his plan for the EV prior to Obama’s election (or even decision to run), much less the CAFE Standard to which you refer. BTW, CAFE was first put in place in 1975.

Furthermore, Prius was literally the most successful car launch of the Decade and that is why the other Automotive Companies jumped in.

Also, the regulations you are referring to came out of Congress in 2007, not the Obama Presidency.
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