[bimmette]

Ok guys, good luck dealing with your kid who tells you that they feel they were born in the wrong body and knew it since they were about 3. You think people choose to go through this hell? Oh please.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by bimmette

Ok guys, good luck dealing with your kid who tells you that they feel they were born in the wrong body and knew it since they were about 3. You think people choose to go through this hell? Oh please.

No one said he chose it.

But how else do you think these ideas were put in his head? It stems back to some serious abuse whether it be from his parents at an early age or someone close to him.

It is NOT normal- not to mention- if he felt he was always a woman, why would you subject your future offspring to such scrutiny? How do you think they feel to see their father in women's lingerie? But considering that their whole family is a circus act - I can't say I'm truly surprised.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by bimmette

Ok guys, good luck dealing with your kid who tells you that they feel they were born in the wrong body and knew it since they were about 3. You think people choose to go through this hell? Oh please.

No idea who she is, but I know a person going through this transformation. It takes more balls than I'd have and the courage can be seen in her eyes.

She feels she was born deformed. She is fixing it. She gets laughed at, shouted at, made fun of because she is in the middle of becoming who she was supposed to be born.

For me, if any of my kids would have to go through this, I'd be proud to stand next to them every step of the way.

Grow up guys, life doesn't come perfect from the box. Sometimes work is needed.

[bimmette]

These ideas were not put in his head. Just like when you were born and you knew you were a boy, he thought he was a girl. Yes the family is a circus show and he could run away and do this in private, but this is not something made up.
Sugarskulls, I'm actually shocked I have to explain this to you!

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by Lups

No idea who he is, but I know a person going through this transformation. It takes more balls than I'd have and the courage can be seen in her eyes.

She feels she was born deformed. She is fixing it. She gets laughed at, shouted at, made fun of because she is in the middle of becoming who she was supposed to be born.

For me, if any of my kids would have to go through this, I'd be proud to stand next to them every step of the way.

Grow up guys, life doesn't come perfect from the box. Sometimes work is needed.

Who she was supposed to be????

So you're saying God makes mistakes??

Truly unbelievable. All respect lost.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by bimmette

These ideas were not put in his head. Just like when you were born and you knew you were a boy, he thought he was a girl. Yes the family is a circus show and he could run away and do this in private, but this is not something made up.
Sugarskulls, I'm actually shocked I have to explain this to you!

Why because I have my own set of beliefs? Or because I work in the industry you automatically assumed I'd jump on the band wagon that changing your natural God given birth is ok?

It's not ok. Not to me- and I shouldn't be condemned for not agreeing with it. I'm not saying he's an evil person, for all I know- he could be a very nice individual, but based off my beliefs, playing God is something I can not and will not support. Ever.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

changing your natural selection

lol what, bro do you even science?

[bimmette]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Why because I have my own set of beliefs? Or because I work in the industry you automatically assumed I'd jump on the band wagon that changing your natural God given birth is ok?

It's not ok. Not to me- and I shouldn't be condemned for not agreeing with it. I'm not saying he's an evil person, for all I know- he could be a very nice individual, but based off my beliefs, playing God is something I can not and will not support. Ever.

True, you have the right to believe what you want. Fair enough. So "god" doesn't make mistakes? Please tell me why child molesters exist in the world or why thousands of people are killed innocently in natural disasters? For the record, I don't believe in God, obviously. So yeah, you're right, we all have our own beliefs.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by bimmette

True, you have the right to believe what you want. Fair enough. So "god" doesn't make mistakes? Please tell me why child molesters exist in the world or why thousands of people are killed innocently in natural disasters? For the record, I don't believe in God, obviously. So yeah, you're right, we all have our own beliefs.

It's called being born with free will.

Stick to your beliefs- I will to mine.

[fecurtis]

While I don't understand the logic behind this and find it odd, I applaud him for doing what he feels is important in his life. Takes a lot of guts and courage to make this big of a change and handle the excessively harsh criticism that comes with it.

If he's doing what he feels will give him joy in life and it doesn't adversely affect our day or lives in anyway, then who cares what he does with his life?

[Lups]

I've wanted to believe in god all my life. It would make things easier.

I wish her all the happiness and peace in her new life. I hope she got what she wanted.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

It's not ok. Not to me- and I shouldn't be condemned for not agreeing with it. I'm not saying he's an evil person, for all I know- he could be a very nice individual, but based off my beliefs, playing God is something I can not and will not support. Ever.

How do you feel about doctors then?
How do you feel about cloning research in order to prevent genetic disease and save lives?

Those are all varying degrees of playing God, so how do you draw the line between what's acceptable and what isn't? Not trying to bait you into some silly debate about religion, just genuinely curious.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

How do you feel about doctors then?
How do you feel about cloning research in order to prevent genetic disease and save lives?

Those are all varying degrees of playing God, so how do you draw the line between what's acceptable and what isn't?

You can not possibly be so ignorant to compare real medical emergencies (and life saving cures) to gender reassignment.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by Lups

Grow up guys, life doesn't come perfect from the box. Sometimes work is needed.

...or in his case, from the cox. Good one, Lups.

[grieverr]

Originally Posted by bimmette

Yes the family is a circus show and he could run away and do this in private, but this is not something made up.

That's the part that really bothers me the most about this whole thing. With Bruce's resources, this could have been done in privacy, with lots of support from friends and family in a nurturing environment. Instead, he decides that this will be a big party and land the cover of whatever-magazine it was.

Any opportunity to have Caitlyn be a role model for the people going through this is completely wasted. I can't wait for the tell-all book and Lifetime movie adaptation.

The Kardashian/Jenner family really make it hard to truly sympathize with them when they go through hard times.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

You can not possibly be so ignorant to compare real medical emergencies (and life saving cures) to gender reassignment.

So you can't answer it.

Thanks, can't say I'm surprised. You also ignored the cloning question.

Let's take it a step further since you resorted to name calling, see what you call me after this.

Which doctor is playing God, one who decides to euthanize a dying patient, or the one who keeps a terminally ill patient alive?

Plus, if you can't discern the fact that an occupation that has decisions that impact life and death and that will require, technically, "playing God", then I'm afraid you're the one who is ignorant.

Either way, like most loud religious people, you all love to pontificate but when it comes to actual substance you've got nothing.

[bimmette]

Originally Posted by grieverr

That's the part that really bothers me the most about this whole thing. With Bruce's resources, this could have been done in privacy, with lots of support from friends and family in a nurturing environment. Instead, he decides that this will be a big party and land the cover of whatever-magazine it was.

Any opportunity to have Caitlyn be a role model for the people going through this is completely wasted. I can't wait for the tell-all book and Lifetime movie adaptation.

The Kardashian/Jenner family really make it hard to truly sympathize with them when they go through hard times.

You're right. But I did read an interview where he said he did want to run away to the quiet countryside but felt like he was running away his whole life and didn't want to anymore. Also, I guess paparazzi would find him anywhere if he tried to hide.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

So you can't answer it.

Thanks, can't say I'm surprised.

Let's take it a step further since you resorted to name calling, see what you call me after this.

Which doctor is playing God, one who decides to euthanize a dying patient, or the one who keeps a terminally ill patient alive?

Plus, if you can't discern the fact that an occupation that has decisions that impact life and death and that will require, technically, "playing God", then I'm afraid you're the one who is ignorant.

You are completely taking my words out of context.

I get where you're coming from.
Yes I see your point about a doctor in the literal sense of "playing God" because he/she Handles many lives.

But it's ignorant to even compare that of which a good hard working doctor does day in and day out with individuals who have cancer, or diabetes- or some unknown medical mystery and use their resources in order to find a cure for the common good- than an individual going against what he thinks was being born the wrong gender.

When I said the act of playing God- it was not a shot at any medical professional. In this case- it was Bruce Jenner taking the means to go out of his way to change his God given birth.

That's why I said that you can't be so ignorant to compare the two situations. Apples and oranges.

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

So you can't answer it.

Thanks, can't say I'm surprised. You also ignored the cloning question.

Let's take it a step further since you resorted to name calling, see what you call me after this.

Which doctor is playing God, one who decides to euthanize a dying patient, or the one who keeps a terminally ill patient alive?

Plus, if you can't discern the fact that an occupation that has decisions that impact life and death and that will require, technically, "playing God", then I'm afraid you're the one who is ignorant.

Either way, like most loud religious people, you all love to pontificate but when it comes to actual substance you've got nothing.

Wow, so now you're generalizing and attacking me based off a "group" you believe I come from? I do read your edits.

At no point did I attack you. I was simply stating that you couldn't be so ignorant to literally compare let's say- a patient depending on a doctor to perform a heart transplant and THIS situation.

Doctors have a VERY tough occupation and just because you're twisting my words around and taking "playing God" in the literal sense/ is not my fault that you're now using it as an attack on my beliefs.

A group of doctors didn't get together and say "hey, let's change that guy into a woman"

No, Bruce Jenner did. He's the one who is playing God. Which is why I don't give him any "praise" of courage.

I guess since we're going to keep generalizing- I'm going to do you one better. I'm of the belief to apologize if I feel I have offended someone and I'm sorry you may have taken offense by taking my comments for calling you ignorant- which I was not.

But you know what? Continue to bash my religious beliefs. Shows how big of a man you really are.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Wow, so now you're generalizing and attacking me based off a "group" you believe I come from? I do read your edits.

At no point did I attack you. I was simply stating that you couldn't be so ignorant to literally compare let's say- a patient depending on a doctor to perform a heart transplant and THIS situation.

Doctors have a VERY tough occupation and just because you're twisting my words around and taking "playing God" in the literal sense/ is not my fault that you're now using it as an attack on my beliefs.

A group of doctors didn't get together and say "hey, let's change that guy into a woman"

No, Bruce Jenner did. He's the one who is playing God. Which is why I don't give him any "praise" of courage.

I guess since we're going to keep generalizing- I'm going to do you one better. I'm of the belief to apologize if I feel I have offended someone and I'm sorry you may have taken offense by taking my comments for calling you ignorant- which I was not.

But you know what? Continue to bash my religious beliefs. Shows how big of a man you really are.

Not bashing your beliefs, just the inconsistency between what you consider playing God. A doctor keeping someone on life support is playing God all the same.

It's all varying degrees of playing God. Who are you to judge which one is appropriate and which one isn't? He'll have his day when he meets his Maker so what's it to you?

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Not bashing your beliefs, just the inconsistency between what you consider playing God.

It's all varying degrees of playing God. Who are you to judge which one is appropriate and which one isn't? He'll have his day when he meets his Maker so what's it to you?

Well...considering this topic was very specific in regards to Bruce Jenner and his transformation/ I didn't think I needed to elaborate on my definition of "playing God" in this instance. Clearly- I was wrong, but like I've stated- if this were a topic on that specific saying, you'd be 100% correct. (But it's not)

So am I not allowed to raise my thoughts on a forum? I don't recall name calling him, saying he was a terrible individual, hell- ever insulting the man.

Like you said, I am no one to judge him. There are far worse things in this world that deserve the kind of attention this fiasco is receiving.

But it's not wrong for me to voice my opinion that the act of gender reassignment (in this particular case) is wrong to me. Nothing more, nothing less. Agreed?

[bimmette]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Well...considering this topic was very specific in regards to Bruce Jenner and his transformation/ I didn't think I needed to elaborate on my definition of "playing God" in this instance. Clearly- I was wrong, but like I've stated- if this were a topic on that specific saying, you'd be 100% correct.

So am I not allowed to raise my thoughts on a forum? I don't recall name calling him, saying he was a terrible individual, hell- ever insulting the man.

Like you said, I am no one to judge him. There are far worse things in this world that deserve the kind of attention this fiasco is receiving.

But it's not wrong for me to voice my opinion that the act of gender reassignment (in this particular case) is wrong to me. Nothing more, nothing less. Agreed?

Didn't expect to have such a heavy discussion first thing in the morning! But yeah, as long as we refrain from name calling, I think we can all voice our own opinions maturely here!