[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by Geradeaus

This just rolled in a couple of doors down from me. That make three within a couple of blocks. At least this one isn't red!

Did/do you know each other?

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Geradeaus

This just rolled in a couple of doors down from me. That make three within a couple of blocks. At least this one isn't red!

Real glad I chose against the all black wheels.

[HokieBeemer]

Originally Posted by Horseman

Yikes!! That’s not very nice looking lol.

Why do most electric vehicles have to be so weird looking or downright ugly? I’ve never cared for the looks of a Tesla. Every Tesla looks like it’s a character right out of the movie “Cars”.

[chilort]

Originally Posted by HokieBeemer

Why do most electric vehicles have to be so weird looking or downright ugly? I’ve never cared for the looks of a Tesla. Every Tesla looks like it’s a character right out of the movie “Cars”.

The only one that looked good looked a bit like a Lotus

[Kwajtrader]

Originally Posted by Geradeaus

With all due respect, you're NUTS if you rely on Tesla's self driving! They don't even use lidar in their system and rely on cameras to provide the data to the buggy (Beta) software. If you can't climb in the back and safely take a nap with certainty you'll wake up at trip's end the car is not self-driving. Good luck with that!

Actually my Model Y has both Radar and cameras and even though it is called full self driving, which is level 5 automation, it is actually only level 3, where you still have to monitor and be ready to take over control. No, you can’t take a nap while it drives because you have to keep your hands on the wheel or the car complains, but it reduces the level of eye strain and concentration required significantly, which for me translates into a real world experience of being able to drive for 12hrs in a day with much less fatigue than a 6hr typical drive. It also moves you in and out of the passing lane to let faster cars pass and then moves you back and changes lanes and navigates highway interchanges. It’s not perfect, but I would give it an A-/B+ overall. This is based on my personal experience of putting 15,000 miles on one for the last 15 months. The key takeaway is that just because it isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it isn’t pretty darn good and improving with each software update. Have you test driven one on the highway with FSD?

[Kwajtrader]

Originally Posted by HokieBeemer

Why do most electric vehicles have to be so weird looking or downright ugly? I’ve never cared for the looks of a Tesla. Every Tesla looks like it’s a character right out of the movie “Cars”.

They do look weird, probably because the main focus is reduced drag and optimizing for manufacture. It’s much less like a traditional car and more like an appliance with frequent feature and SW updates. I find it fascinating how polarized folks are about it. I wonder how many people with a negative opinion have actually test driven one.

[chilort]

I was a member of a solar car race team 20+ years ago when the EV1 came out. Electric cars for mass use were only 5 years away then. They're 5 years away now too. Trust me

[jlumaa]

Amazing how low those figures are. So maybe 1000 M40i a year? I am vigorously attempting to get them to sell one more.

[Geradeaus]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

Did/do you know each other?

He's quite a bit younger than me so our social interactions are on a first name basis but limited. I've been trying to catch him outside to ask him about his purchase. I'm interested to know how he came to buy it. His previous car was an earlier Z4.

[Geradeaus]

Originally Posted by Kwajtrader

... It’s not perfect, but I would give it an A-/B+ overall. ... The key takeaway is that just because it isn’t perfect doesn’t mean it isn’t pretty darn good and improving with each software update.

My point is that until the software IS perfect I cannot trust it over my own driving abilities. I have close to fifty years of driving probably a half million miles and my driving record is perfect. No accidents or fatalities. I've got to give myself an A+ rating and I plan on keeping that rating by controlling my vehicle 100% of the time.

I would be a nervous wreck riding in a vehicle that I am not actively controlling. Fractions of a second can make all the difference between a safe outcome and an accident and if I'm sitting there wondering if my car is going to handle the situation I'm not acting as quickly as I could.

I've got Active Cruise Control on my Z4 and use it all the time to maintain a constant speed and spacing. It helps on long interstate highway drives and local driving where I don't want to speed. I keep my foot poised to hit the brakes though and will adjust the spacing and speed occasionally to feel safer. I do not trust it to stop my vehicle and will often times disengage it if traffic gets too heavy. I drive two or three cars ahead and will let off the throttle and coast if I see those vehicles slowing down ahead. The ACC only knows what's happening based on the car immediately ahead of me and if I rely on it it will apply the brakes late in the game.

How does Tesla handle that situation? Do you ever start to wonder if it is going to respond to a traffic situation? Do you ever have to start braking or steering because it isn't doing what you think it should be doing?

I understand that Tesla uses cameras and radar but I believe they do not using Lidar in their vehicles. From what I've been reading, a complete picture of what is going on cannot be reliably determined without all three technologies adding input to the driving algorithm.

One other point about EV vehicles in general. I hope you are leasing your EV or have an extended warranty on your battery pack. My Volt had a battery pack section go bad and the car was bricked. The cost to repair the battery pack was higher than the working car's value would be. I sold a nine year car in great condition that I loved up to the moment the battery failed for scrap. I wish I had thought about blowing it up as the Tesla owner did in this video! https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/1...os-pkg-vpx.cnn

[Kwajtrader]

Originally Posted by Geradeaus

My point is that until the software IS perfect I cannot trust it over my own driving abilities. I have close to fifty years of driving probably a half million miles and my driving record is perfect. No accidents or fatalities. I've got to give myself an A+ rating and I plan on keeping that rating by controlling my vehicle 100% of the time.

I would be a nervous wreck riding in a vehicle that I am not actively controlling. Fractions of a second can make all the difference between a safe outcome and an accident and if I'm sitting there wondering if my car is going to handle the situation I'm not acting as quickly as I could.

I've got Active Cruise Control on my Z4 and use it all the time to maintain a constant speed and spacing. It helps on long interstate highway drives and local driving where I don't want to speed. I keep my foot poised to hit the brakes though and will adjust the spacing and speed occasionally to feel safer. I do not trust it to stop my vehicle and will often times disengage it if traffic gets too heavy. I drive two or three cars ahead and will let off the throttle and coast if I see those vehicles slowing down ahead. The ACC only knows what's happening based on the car immediately ahead of me and if I rely on it it will apply the brakes late in the game.

How does Tesla handle that situation? Do you ever start to wonder if it is going to respond to a traffic situation? Do you ever have to start braking or steering because it isn't doing what you think it should be doing?

I understand that Tesla uses cameras and radar but I believe they do not using Lidar in their vehicles. From what I've been reading, a complete picture of what is going on cannot be reliably determined without all three technologies adding input to the driving algorithm.

One other point about EV vehicles in general. I hope you are leasing your EV or have an extended warranty on your battery pack. My Volt had a battery pack section go bad and the car was bricked. The cost to repair the battery pack was higher than the working car's value would be. I sold a nine year car in great condition that I loved up to the moment the battery failed for scrap. I wish I had thought about blowing it up as the Tesla owner did in this video! https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/1...os-pkg-vpx.cnn

First, thank you for taking the time to provide such a thoughtful response. It sounds like you and I are about the same age and have roughly the same driving experience. To be clear, I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything, but rather sharing the significantly positive experience I have had, because for me, it’s been a game changer for long trips and I like to share good things when I find them.

To give a little background, I am a retired electrical engineer with 40+ years of hardware/systems/software and operations experience. I mention this not because I think this means I’m smart, but because I have been described as pretty “Type A” or “Anal” when it comes to details and technology. Okay, maybe for everything, although I’d like to think I’ve mellowed in retirement…

Full disclosure: The Tesla is my wife’s car and she hates to drive, so I do all the driving on trips and when we are together. She also hates using the self driving feature and feels it is a bit too aggressive in how it brakes in traffic. So there you go… If it’s just me and I don’t need an SUV I take the Z4. If I have to haul something I take our old Volvo XC90.

You’ve asked a lot of good questions and I may miss some, but here goes. When we first got the Tesla I enabled FSD as often as possible to gain an understanding of how it reacts in various traffic situations and when and where it required the most oversight. Just as you use ACC and have a feel for when you need to take control, I do the same with FSD, except it provides a significant number of additional features that I leverage. I always have my eyes on the road and hands on the wheel (which you are still supposed to do), but instead of focusing on the dashboard and every detail of the cars around me, I can focus further down the road and more peripherally. It feels analogous to letting your 20 year old drive but you still get to have your hands on the wheel and feet on the pedals.

I keep the car set to 6 car lengths between me and the car in front of me on the highway, but it is configurable with a button on the steering wheel, as is the top speed you want the car to go, traffic permitting. The car is factoring in cars not only directly in front of you but to both sides and behind you. I haven’t noticed, but I will pay attention next time to see how many cars in front me it can see or if it is just the one immediately in front. It also differentiates between types of cars (cars, trucks, pickups, minivans, etc), people walking, people on bikes, cones, trash cans, stop signs, stop lights and their various states, all of which are on the display for you as well. To take control you literally simply take control, whether that is moving the wheel as you see fit or accelerating or braking appropriately. Providing conflicting driving input takes a minimal amount of force in the direction you prefer, and at that point FSD disengages until you turn it back on. Same with braking, just like ACC. It will also disengage FSD if you have your hands off the wheel for a given amount of time (I’m not sure how long this is off the top of my head).

How often do I have to intervene because I don’t like what it’s doing? On long highway trips I would estimate less than 5% of the time, mostly in heavy construction areas or during bad weather. It sometimes has issues with large all white trailer trucks and will complain when there frankly is nothing to complain about. In this case it will loudly beep and the display will flash red to force you to pay attention if you weren’t or take control immediately. Like this case, the car will notify you and then disengage if something outside of its parameters or if there is something it sees as a hazard. I have found it to be pretty conservative in a good way. In city driving I probably have to take control more like 10-15% of the time. Atlanta has some pretty aggressive drivers and some interesting construction in some places. I have found FSD to be very predictable in what it can and cannot handle well. There is one place on my normal route where there is a left turn break in a divided highway with a median strip in between. In this case dotted lines suddenly show up on the left side of the lane for cars to turn left. The Tesla will always slightly swerve to the left as if the travel lane is shifting left and then correct itself. The first time it was like “What the heck” and I took control. Now I expect it, and know that this is how it interprets this type of interchange. In 15k of driving the car this, and the white tractor trailer things are the only consistent things that comes to mind.

When in FSD, before it changes lanes to move you out of the way of the car quickly approaching in the fast lane, or to change lanes to follow your route, it notifies you of why it is making a lane change, and shows you in real time exactly where it is going to move the car relative to other vehicles around you. You can cancel the change with the turn signal or disable this altogether right in the main display. You can also configure the car to require confirmation before making these changes after notification, or not.

The net net is that you should still be paying attention, but it offloads a lot of the strain inducing elements of driving, especially on the highway.

With respect to the battery, the car comes with an 8yr 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and drive train. It used to be even longer. There have been several reports and youtube videos related to the cost of tesla replacing a battery pack, one with a guy burning his Tesla because of the cost to replace the battery pack, but if you read up on that particular story you will find there is a lot more to it. For me, I have a while to worry about it as my car is only 15 months old, but there are already companies that are replacing individual cells for teslas at a significantly lower price. I suspect, given the market more will be coming. I have 6.8 more years before I have worry about it, by which time EV aftermarket support will almost certainly be significantly more prevalent given every major car manufacturer is building EVs.

Just for the heck of it you should go test drive one. If I lived closer I’d drop by and let you take mine for a drive.

[Horseman]

Originally Posted by HokieBeemer

Why do most electric vehicles have to be so weird looking or downright ugly? I’ve never cared for the looks of a Tesla. Every Tesla looks like it’s a character right out of the movie “Cars”.

I've never understood this. LIke.. hey we're going electric.. let's just ... make it as ugly as possible!

[Kwajtrader]

Originally Posted by Horseman

I've never understood this. LIke.. hey we're going electric.. let's just ... make it as ugly as possible!

It should be interesting to see what the next few years will bring. I think the Rivian pickup trucks and the Lucid Air aren’t bad looking, but I agree that a lot of the others are just strange looking, and I have no idea what they were thinking with the Cybertruck.

[Geradeaus]

Originally Posted by Kwajtrader

First, thank you for taking the time to provide such a thoughtful response.

And thank you sir for an equally thoughtful reply!

Originally Posted by Kwajtrader

... although I’d like to think I’ve mellowed in retirement…

Mellowed - you ordered the M40i, right? Now, I'm the mellow one with the 30i. I have to laugh though as I recently came across the old brochure for the 2008 335i I purchased that showed the automatic 0-60 time as 5.5 seconds. My little 4-cylinder accelerates faster than the 2008 inline six!

Originally Posted by Kwajtrader

...With respect to the battery, the car comes with an 8yr 100,000 mile warranty on the battery and drive train.

I had the same expectation that the Volt battery replacement would be much cheaper in 2021 than it was back in 2012 when I bought the car - didn't happen. Hopefully the cost will drop. I'm not sure manufacturing economies of scale will override the increased demand for battery raw materials as every car manufacturer in the world converts to electric vehicles.

Originally Posted by Kwajtrader

...Just for the heck of it you should go test drive one.

Tesla is pretty much last on my list for an EV. Ford has some more interesting options and I really like the dual-energy capability that Toyota has in their RAV4 Prime (full electric for around town but able to run as a hybrid or pure gas for those long trips (very Volt like)). I've put a little money into NIO (Chinese company). They are building cars with battery packs that can be replaced with a fully charged one at service stations in a claimed three minutes! I think that could work in the U.S. I don't "own" a propane tank anymore I simply return the empty and pick up a full one. Why not car batteries, too?

I was curious, I believe you got the one-day driving school offer from BMW? If so, have you taken the class? I'm set to go at the end of April and hope to be able to use an M40i for the day to get some seat of the pants feel for a comparison to my 30i.

[Kwajtrader]

Originally Posted by Geradeaus

And thank you sir for an equally thoughtful reply!



Mellowed - you ordered the M40i, right? Now, I'm the mellow one with the 30i. I have to laugh though as I recently came across the old brochure for the 2008 335i I purchased that showed the automatic 0-60 time as 5.5 seconds. My little 4-cylinder accelerates faster than the 2008 inline six!

I had the same expectation that the Volt battery replacement would be much cheaper in 2021 than it was back in 2012 when I bought the car - didn't happen. Hopefully the cost will drop. I'm not sure manufacturing economies of scale will override the increased demand for battery raw materials as every car manufacturer in the world converts to electric vehicles.


Tesla is pretty much last on my list for an EV. Ford has some more interesting options and I really like the dual-energy capability that Toyota has in their RAV4 Prime (full electric for around town but able to run as a hybrid or pure gas for those long trips (very Volt like)). I've put a little money into NIO (Chinese company). They are building cars with battery packs that can be replaced with a fully charged one at service stations in a claimed three minutes! I think that could work in the U.S. I don't "own" a propane tank anymore I simply return the empty and pick up a full one. Why not car batteries, too?

I was curious, I believe you got the one-day driving school offer from BMW? If so, have you taken the class? I'm set to go at the end of April and hope to be able to use an M40i for the day to get some seat of the pants feel for a comparison to my 30i.

Okay, maybe I’m not so mellow after all 0-60 at 3.9 is enough to get my pulse rate up. I do have a credit for a 1 day course but haven’t scheduled it. My understanding is I can also apply the credit amount to a multi day course, so I have to figure that out. I’m hoping I get to drive an M40i again (had one for performance center delivery that I got to whomp on) and I want to try launch control. They really encouraged us to push the car to it’s limits, which was awesome. I also have a credit for the new owner orientation for me and a guest. I’m assuming that’s the same as what I did for performance center delivery.


My last EV comments, I promise:
There are lots of interesting EV options out there now and on the horizon. I like Ford’s option to use the EV as a home powersource. I’m guessing Tesla didn’t go that way because they sell the power wall. I also like Rivians pickup, but it’s more of a niche vehicle. I watched a video on the battery swap option in action. Interesting, but routinely moving really heavy things in and out of the frame make me a little uneasy. For me, unless you only plan on using your EV locally, the most important thing is the charging infrastructure, and today, Tesla is way out in front in terms of availability and reliability. IMHO, once things normalize it’s anybody’s game based on what features/functions are important to the specific consumer.

[BMWGirlFL]

Germany registrations if I understood correctly.

[COKen]

Thanks for the data. Looks like the Z4 has better volume than several other models. Its a shame they may be putting our little roadster on the chopping block but not other models which have alternatives.

[BMWGirlFL]

Z4 is a privilege.
2021 Global:

[COKen]

It is interesting that only the X7 and Z4 are listed alone. All the rest of the cars listed are combined with one or more other models.

[Toon902]

Originally Posted by Geradeaus

This just rolled in a couple of doors down from me. That make three within a couple of blocks. At least this one isn't red!

Wow. I have yet to see a G29 in the wild (eastern Canada) and only one Supra in the local Canadian Tire parking lot. With my M40i on its way across the pond as we speak, it looks like I will have one of a very few around. As long as getting it serviced isn't an issue, given its scarcity, I'm hoping that it retains its value due to both the scarcity and novelty, not to mention that (by all accounts), it's an awesome roadster!

As an aside, I was in the Orlando area 2 weeks ago and did an Inventory Search in area BMW dealers for giggles and could not find a single Z4, of any model, so I have actually never seen, sat in or driven one.

Spring is coming and so is my Z4!

[Rotherd31]

ICE all the way for me baby !!!!

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Toon902

Wow. I have yet to see a G29 in the wild (eastern Canada) and only one Supra in the local Canadian Tire parking lot. With my M40i on its way across the pond as we speak, it looks like I will have one of a very few around. As long as getting it serviced isn't an issue, given its scarcity, I'm hoping that it retains its value due to both the scarcity and novelty, not to mention that (by all accounts), it's an awesome roadster!

As an aside, I was in the Orlando area 2 weeks ago and did an Inventory Search in area BMW dealers for giggles and could not find a single Z4, of any model, so I have actually never seen, sat in or driven one.

Spring is coming and so is my Z4!

It's a pretty rare car down here in the South as well. The M40 is a unicorn too.