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      03-31-2015, 08:19 PM   #1
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Cadillac CT6

http://media.cadillac.com/media/us/e.../0331-ct6.html

Size of a 7 series, lighter than a 5 series or E-class. Lots of aluminum. AWD standard on 6 cylinder models. Rear wheel steering and magnetic ride optional. All new 3.6 V6 and TT 3.0. 2.0 turbo standard. 34(!) speaker Bose Panaray audio option. Night vision. 360 degree video recording. Live video rear view "mirror".

A turbo V8 in the future is pretty much confirmed.


Last edited by CirrusSR22; 03-31-2015 at 09:25 PM..
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      03-31-2015, 08:53 PM   #2
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I am curious as to if they got it down to 3700 lbs... If so.. Z Germans should be worried

But something tells me thats for a base 4, light options and rwd.

Hats off to Cadillac for the change in interior direction vs the current options.
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      03-31-2015, 10:33 PM   #3
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Styling is weak....Cadillac would of had a winner if it looked like Elmiraj concept.
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      03-31-2015, 10:45 PM   #4
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Better than some recent Caddy designs. I'm liking the Lincoln Continental design better, though.
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      04-01-2015, 08:26 AM   #5
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Looks good but was hoping for something a bit more dramatic for their flagship.
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      04-01-2015, 10:36 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Looks good but was hoping for something a bit more dramatic for their flagship.
Its not their flagship. Thats coming later.
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      04-07-2015, 12:07 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by CirrusSR22 View Post
Size of a 7 series, lighter than a 5 series or E-class. Lots of aluminum. AWD standard on 6 cylinder models. Rear wheel steering and magnetic ride optional. All new 3.6 V6 and TT 3.0. 2.0 turbo standard. 34(!) speaker Bose Panaray audio option. Night vision. 360 degree video recording. Live video rear view "mirror".
Sounds intriguing, yet I struggle visualizing a scenario with me owning a Caddy, short of waking up retired somewhere in Florida, starring at the wrong side of 80...

a
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      04-07-2015, 04:47 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Sounds intriguing, yet I struggle visualizing a scenario with me owning a Caddy, short of waking up retired somewhere in Florida, starring at the wrong side of 80...

a
This response is so, like, 10 years ago...
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      04-07-2015, 06:43 AM   #9
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This response is so, like, 10 years ago...
If you look at Cadillac's sales numbers, he's not the only one who thinks that way.

Even though their cars are competitive, it seems like Cadillac can't move units unless they sell them at deep discounts. It's hard to pay Audi, Mercedes, or BMW money for something that isn't an Audi, Mercedes, or BMW. For now anyway.

That's what happens when you build garbage for decades.
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      04-07-2015, 06:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
If you look at Cadillac's sales numbers, he's not the only one who thinks that way.

Even though their cars are competitive, it seems like Cadillac can't move units unless they sell them at deep discounts. It's hard to pay Audi, Mercedes, or BMW money for something that isn't an Audi, Mercedes, or BMW. For now anyway.

That's what happens when you build garbage for decades.
Bingo.
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      04-07-2015, 06:58 AM   #11
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I doubt GM especially with Cadillac cares much about the US market for expansion anymore. It'll be quite hard to fix their reputation over the years to remain current. China on the other hand doesn't know shit and will buy em up like hot cakes.
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      04-07-2015, 09:58 AM   #12
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I don't see anything special. Admittedly, Cadillac has come a long way from what they used to be, but they constantly repeat the same lines with slightly different tweaks across all models. I wish Cadillac would do something completely out of their norm and break the expectations that everyone has grown into.


Maybe one day they'll make something decently appealing to a market outside of 50+ men and women.

*V line is a somewhat exception, they make power, but still nothing to Ooh or Aah about looking at competitors in the same price range*
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      04-07-2015, 11:01 AM   #13
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That looks great!
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      04-07-2015, 11:43 AM   #14
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And I bet its going to cost as much as a 7 series......way to go GM.....
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      04-07-2015, 12:11 PM   #15
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Interior design is on another level compared to exterior. They have a long way to go to re-build their reputation. I don't think they can compete with German brands today. I see Caddy in the same group as Acura, Infiniti, Genesis and Lincoln - near-luxury brands. They think generic vehicles with bunch of chrome lines and wheels will attract customers from other luxury brands. Maybe in China and other markets but the current strategy is not working in US. They have a long way to go including offering better services and dealership experience.
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      04-08-2015, 04:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
If you look at Cadillac's sales numbers, he's not the only one who thinks that way.

Even though their cars are competitive, it seems like Cadillac can't move units unless they sell them at deep discounts. It's hard to pay Audi, Mercedes, or BMW money for something that isn't an Audi, Mercedes, or BMW. For now anyway.

That's what happens when you build garbage for decades.
We'll you missed my point entirely. While 15 - 20 years ago Cadillac saw it's market in an age group that is now in it's 80s or even deceased it clearly does not build cars for 80 year olds, so the Poster's comments are stupid and out of touch.

Additionally, the 7-Series, S-Class and Audi A8 all target people well beyond 50 and 60 years old and are primarily purchased as nothing other than status symbols. Nor do those cars offer any level of dynamic response that is perceptively better to the average US driver than what Cadillac offers in it's current products. And if you go look at the resale value of the 7-Series as an example, you'll find it is quite low due to BMW's reputation of building electronics that go to shit after 5 years and are quite expensive to fix.

And most of you are far too young to remember when Audi was the laughing stock of the European market cars in the 1970's and early 80's; maybe the Yugo took the top spot, but Audi wasn't far behind as a joke of a car (Google the Audi Fox). Had social media been around in the 70's and 80's Audi surely would have succumbed to it's bad reputation and died. This while at the same time Cadillac was badge-engineering Chevrolets for some models. All of which is in the past as far as these companies design and build cars (the Audis now all built off the same FWD VW corporate platform), but the misperceptions of the Poster's comments somehow keep the myth alive.
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      04-08-2015, 07:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
We'll you missed my point entirely. While 15 - 20 years ago Cadillac saw it's market in an age group that is now in it's 80s or even deceased it clearly does not build cars for 80 year olds, so the Poster's comments are stupid and out of touch.

Additionally, the 7-Series, S-Class and Audi A8 all target people well beyond 50 and 60 years old and are primarily purchased as nothing other than status symbols. Nor do those cars offer any level of dynamic response that is perceptively better to the average US driver than what Cadillac offers in it's current products. And if you go look at the resale value of the 7-Series as an example, you'll find it is quite low due to BMW's reputation of building electronics that go to shit after 5 years and are quite expensive to fix.

And most of you are far too young to remember when Audi was the laughing stock of the European market cars in the 1970's and early 80's; maybe the Yugo took the top spot, but Audi wasn't far behind as a joke of a car (Google the Audi Fox). Had social media been around in the 70's and 80's Audi surely would have succumbed to it's bad reputation and died. This while at the same time Cadillac was badge-engineering Chevrolets for some models. All of which is in the past as far as these companies design and build cars (the Audis now all built off the same FWD VW corporate platform), but the misconceptions of the Poster's comments somehow keep the myth alive.
No I got your point, you completely missed mine. It doesn't matter what the facts are, brand perception in the luxury market plays a larger role than it probably should. If he still thinks the cars are for octogenarians living in Florida, being condescending and saying he's wrong won't convince him that he should look at a Cadillac when he's in the market for a new car, same goes with a lot of other people.

I do remember Audi almost going belly up, guess who heads Cadillac now? The guy who's credited with turning Audi around. The problem I stated above and in my previous post that completely went over your head is exactly what Johan de Nysschen at Cadillac is tasked with doing, turning around that brand perception. That Cadillac no longer builds cars for people who will probably die within the next decade, that it does build cars that are comparable to BMW and Audi and that consumers should look to them as a viable alternative.

Maybe you do, but like you implied...you're old.
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      04-08-2015, 07:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
No I got your point, you completely missed mine. It doesn't matter what the facts are, brand perception in the luxury market plays a larger role than it probably should. If he still thinks the cars are for octogenarians living in Florida, being condescending and saying he's wrong won't convince him that he should look at a Cadillac when he's in the market for a new car, same goes with a lot of other people.

I do remember Audi almost going belly up, guess who heads Cadillac now? The guy who's credited with turning Audi around. The problem I stated above and in my previous post that completely went over your head is exactly what Johan de Nysschen at Cadillac is tasked with doing, turning around that brand perception. That Cadillac no longer builds cars for people who will probably die within the next decade, that it does build cars that are comparable to BMW and Audi and that consumers should look to them as a viable alternative.

Maybe you do, but like you implied...you're old.
I'm not sure you did. The quote being "Sounds intriguing, yet I struggle visualizing a scenario with me owning a Caddy, short of waking up retired somewhere in Florida, starring at the wrong side of 80..." Says nothing about quality, or value of the current Cadillac offerings, but rather some stupid perception that Cadillac cars target market is 80-year olds, which hasn't been a relevant argument for the past 15 years or so. If the OP chooses to be ignorant regarding the driving quality of a current-day Cadillac, then he's possibly really just a badge whore anyway, and the lost qualities that used to make BMW the driving "envy of the world", is lost on him. A nice, soft-riding, poor steering, and lousy-braking, I-drive-centric, luxo-barge F30 is probably just the right car for him.

I'm old enough to remember when Mercedes Benzes used GM automatic transmissions, and wise enough not to limit my car choices to only the ones that have a Roundel on the hood, or only come from Germany. I find it amusing that once Cadillac has beaten BMW at its original game (excellent handling) the auto magazines all of a sudden start judging the beloved Roundel-brand by the design and usability of it's infotainment system.
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      04-08-2015, 08:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I'm not sure you did. The quote being "Sounds intriguing, yet I struggle visualizing a scenario with me owning a Caddy, short of waking up retired somewhere in Florida, starring at the wrong side of 80..." Says nothing about quality, or value of the current Cadillac offerings, but rather some stupid perception that Cadillac cars target market is 80-year olds, which hasn't been a relevant argument for the past 15 years or so. If the OP chooses to be ignorant regarding the driving quality of a current-day Cadillac, then he's possibly really just a badge whore anyway, and the lost qualities that used to make BMW the driving "envy of the world", is lost on him. A nice, soft-riding, poor steering, and lousy-braking, I-drive-centric, luxo-barge F30 is probably just the right car for him.

I'm old enough to remember when Mercedes Benzes used GM automatic transmissions, and wise enough not to limit my car choices to only the ones that have a Roundel on the hood, or only come from Germany. I find it amusing that once Cadillac has beaten BMW at its original game (excellent handling) the auto magazines all of a sudden start judging the beloved Roundel-brand by the design and usability of it's infotainment system.
Sorry you can't grasp the concept of brand image. When you charge the same price as the competition, brand image goes a long way in the luxury market. And if he's an auto enthusiast and thinks that way, imagine what your typical luxury car buyer thinks. I guess everyone who glosses over Cadillac is an idiot, judging by their sales numbers...a lot of people are idiots.

Weird, most things I've read say that Caddie's handle and drive better than their current BMW counterparts (as do Lexus with F-Sport packages). That shouldn't be surprising, Cadillac benchmarked the E46 3 Series when engineering the ATS and have dinged it (rightfully so) on the terrible CUE infotainment system. There's other factors that come into play when buying a car other than how it drives. The controls in the center stack of a Cadillac are in this glossy black material, they're also all touch sensitive meaning not just the screen but the entire center stack becomes covered in fingerprints over time.

Funny how you're so quick to judge newer BMW's, even though it's doubtful you've really ever driven any of them, much like you probably never drove a Cadillac or any of the other competitors yet like to just assume they are all better than new BMW's.

Most of us (myself included) test drove other cars in the segment before making a decision, it's not like most of us mindlessly went into a BMW dealership and bought a car. If you like to engage in rosy retrospection then knock yourself out. Still doesn't change the fact that people won't buy Cadillacs without massive discounts because people still view the brand as one that makes subpar cars for the elderly. It took Audi 20 years to get out of their bad image, anyone with half a brain knows that it takes time to rebuild consumer trust. Building a good product typically isn't enough, when someone is ignoring your brand they won't magically start paying attention once you turn the corner unless you change your image.

Either way, this basic Marketing 101/Business 101 concept is completely lost on you. Maybe you're just too old to understand, unfortunately the luxury automotive market isn't, that's why no one is really buying Cadillacs despite a healthy and robust luxury market. But let's say you do just "get it" and the rest of us don't. Hop on over to Cadillac's HQ in NYC and let them know you have the answer to get more people in Cadillacs, just call everyone who'd rather spend their money on the competition (or maybe just BMW's) a bunch of idiots. That'll get people flocking into Cadillac showrooms for sure.
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      04-08-2015, 08:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Sorry you can't grasp the concept of brand image. When you charge the same price as the competition, brand image goes a long way in the luxury market. And if he's an auto enthusiast and thinks that way, imagine what your typical luxury car buyer thinks. I guess everyone who glosses over Cadillac is an idiot, judging by their sales numbers...a lot of people are idiots.

Weird, most things I've read say that Caddie's handle and drive better than their current BMW counterparts (as do Lexus with F-Sport packages). That shouldn't be surprising, Cadillac benchmarked the E46 3 Series when engineering the ATS and have dinged it (rightfully so) on the terrible CUE infotainment system. There's other factors that come into play when buying a car other than how it drives. The controls in the center stack of a Cadillac are in this glossy black material, they're also all touch sensitive meaning not just the screen but the entire center stack becomes covered in fingerprints over time.

Funny how you're so quick to judge newer BMW's, even though it's doubtful you've really ever driven any of them, much like you probably never drove a Cadillac or any of the other competitors yet like to just assume they are all better than new BMW's.

Most of us (myself included) test drove other cars in the segment before making a decision, it's not like most of us mindlessly went into a BMW dealership and bought a car. If you like to engage in rosy retrospection then knock yourself out. Still doesn't change the fact that people won't buy Cadillacs without massive discounts because people still view the brand as one that makes subpar cars for the elderly. It took Audi 20 years to get out of their bad image, anyone with half a brain knows that it takes time to rebuild consumer trust. Building a good product typically isn't enough, when someone is ignoring your brand they won't magically start paying attention once you turn the corner unless you change your image.

Either way, this basic Marketing 101/Business 101 concept is completely lost on you. Maybe you're just too old to understand, unfortunately the luxury automotive market isn't, that's why no one is really buying Cadillacs despite a healthy and robust luxury market. But let's say you do just "get it" and the rest of us don't. Hop on over to Cadillac's HQ in NYC and let them know you have the answer to get more people in Cadillacs, just call everyone who'd rather spend their money on the competition (or maybe just BMW's) a bunch of idiots. That'll get people flocking into Cadillac showrooms for sure.
Now that concept I agree with .

But you're completely wrong about my test driving, because it is actually the complete opposite. You can look through my posts back in the August 2013 timeframe and forward regarding my comments of the F30 and ATS to check. But just to recap, in August and September of 2013, I had my E90 in for analysis of the oil sensor issue that I've since documented BMW purposefully turns off the oil life monitor function at 186,000 miles. And in September I had my Hummer H3T in for repair of some rodent damage to the electrical system. So within the span of 3 weeks I had an '12 F30 335i (auto of course) as a loaner, and a '12 ATS 2.0T (auto as well) with a week in between following (so almost back-to-back) as a loaner. I drove both cars on my daily 160-mile round trip commute, which is a mix of excellent back-country roads, dual lane rural highway, and about 20 miles of stop-and-go Northern Virginia traffic. I drove each car over 900 miles and had both separately over a weekend. I found the ATS the much more engaging car to drive. It handled better, steered better, and braked better. The F30 had more power obviously, which was fun for merging on the highway, but that was about it. As far as back road work, the ATS was far more fun and enjoyable to drive. In one post on the subject I ranked the cars this way: E90 1st, ATS 2nd, and 335i 3rd. As far as the CUE and I-drive units, well I hate that level of infotainment in a car anyway, but I found both just as distracting to the purpose of driving. I've hung out on the ATS sites for awhile, and the consensus I found was that most owners found the CUE system quite good once it was mastered.

And after the August/September test drives, the next weekend I went to my BMW dealer in Charlottesville to test drive the F30 320i with a sport package and manual transmission. I found the 320i even worse than the 335i, the engine was far under powered and the chassis still had no balance. The 320i sport package was actually a bit higher priced than the ATS 2.0T with a sunroof and manual trans (the way I'd get one) since it comes with a LSD for free (something BMW doesn't even offer until you get to an M3). The sales manager in C-ville offered a $4.5K discount right off the bat to try and sell me the 320i that day, and I wasn't even interested in buying a car at the time. And when was in the market for a new car after 18 years of E30 ownership, I test drove all the cars in the segment at the time between 2004 and 2006, E46 328, Lexus IS200, MB C-class with sport package, and Audi A3, and even an X3 (with a manual transmission of course). The '06 E90 offered what I wanted.

So, yeah, I've driven a bunch of recent car as well as the new BMWs; I think the new BMWs suck compared to the BMWs I've driven for the last 27 years or so. You can also read a post I just wrote 30 minutes ago on another thread about the F30 on this subject.

And just to finish this off. I think Cadillac needed one more generation of the ATS at a price a few thousand less than a comparable BMW to win over more buyers. The current thinking to move Cadillac HQ to New York seems stupid to me (but the engineering stays with GM in Detroit), and to up-scale the pricing to BMW et.al. is a mistake in my opinion; but I don't have the creds of Johan de Nysschen has to run a car company, so I don't get to vote. I've read where Cadillac is trying to become independent from GM (chassis and engineering-wise), which seems counterintuitive to trends in the industry, where even BMW has joined forces with Toyota. But it won't be the 1st time an auto executive as f'd up an auto company.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 04-08-2015 at 09:14 AM..
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      04-08-2015, 09:01 AM   #21
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Now that concept I agree with .

But you're completely wrong about my test driving, because it is actually the complete opposite. You can look through my posts back in the August 2013 timeframe and forward regarding my comments of the F30 and ATS to check. But just to recap, in August and September of 2013, I had my E90 in for analysis of the oil sensor issue that I've since documented BMW purposefully turns off the oil life monitor function at 186,000 miles. And in September I had my Hummer H3T in for repair of some rodent damage to the electrical system. So within the span of 3 weeks I had an '12 F30 335i (auto of course) as a loaner, and a '12 ATS 2.0T (auto as well) with a week in between following (so almost back-to-back) as a loaner. I drove both cars on my daily 160-mile round trip commute, which is a mix of excellent back-country roads, dual lane rural highway, and about 20 miles of stop-and-go Northern Virginia traffic. I drove each car over 900 miles and had both separately over a weekend. I found the ATS the much more engaging car to drive. It handled better, steered better, and braked better. The F30 had more power obviously, which was fun for merging on the highway, but that was about it. As far as back road work, the ATS was far more fun and enjoyable to drive. In one post on the subject I ranked the cars this way: E90 1st, ATS 2nd, and 335i 3rd. As far as the CUE and I-drive units, well I hate that level of infotainment in a car anyway, but I found both just as distracting to the purpose of driving. I've hung out on the ATS sites for awhile, and the consensus I found was that most owners found the CUE system quite good once it was mastered.

And after the August/September test drives, the next weekend I went to my BMW dealer in Charlottesville to test drive the F30 320i with a sport package and manual transmission. I found the 320i even worse than the 335i, the engine was far under powered and the chassis still had no balance. The 320i sport package was actually a bit higher priced than the ATS 2.0T with a sunroof and manual trans (the way I'd get one) since it comes with a LSD for free (something BMW doesn't even offer until you get to an M3). The sales manager in C-ville offered a $4.5K discount right off the bat to try and sell me the 320i that day, and I wasn't even interested in buying a car at the time.

So, yeah, I've driven the new BMWs; I think they suck compared to the BMWs I've driven for the last 27 years or so. You can also read a post I just wrote 30 minutes ago on another thread about the F30.
Holy crap, you OWNED a H3T?? I may have seen maybe one of those in my entire life. What'd you do with it?

As for mastering CUE, there shouldn't really be a learning curve and if there is one, it should be a small one. It's why I passed over an E90 335i back in 2007, I wanted to punch the damn screen while trying to use it while driving to do things like climate control, audio, etc. The current iDrive software is much more user friendly, only obscure settings can be difficult to find but basic stuff is all there and readily available. CUE will only improve as time goes on just like any other infotainment system I'm sure though.

It'll take some time but provided Cadillac keeps cranking out the great products they're making and maybe produce a halo car (the Audi R8 did wonders for getting people to pay attention to Audi) and some high volume selling luxury crossovers, I can't see why Cadillac can't be seen in the same light as the Germans.
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      04-08-2015, 09:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Holy crap, you OWNED a H3T?? I may have seen maybe one of those in my entire life. What'd you do with it?

As for mastering CUE, there shouldn't really be a learning curve and if there is one, it should be a small one. It's why I passed over an E90 335i back in 2007, I wanted to punch the damn screen while trying to use it while driving to do things like climate control, audio, etc. The current iDrive software is much more user friendly, only obscure settings can be difficult to find but basic stuff is all there and readily available. CUE will only improve as time goes on just like any other infotainment system I'm sure though.

It'll take some time but provided Cadillac keeps cranking out the great products they're making and maybe produce a halo car (the Audi R8 did wonders for getting people to pay attention to Audi) and some high volume selling luxury crossovers, I can't see why Cadillac can't be seen in the same light as the Germans.
I still have the H3T parked right next to my E90 (not sure if you are being sarcastic...). They only made 2,400 of them. I replaced my Wife's Jeep with it. I love the thing. Nothing better than a small block Chevy V-8 (well, an N52 - I've got 2 of them - is just as good); the 4-speed auto trans is the only nit I have with it. I live on a river, sometimes you need to cross through the water, the Hummer does that in spades (old-timer's saying...).
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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