[ArchJR]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....and if/when the others follow suit, BMW won't look so much like the bad guy anymore (...even though Audi already killed their ED program).

Assuming there is a heightened level of disappointment with BMW's decision, I can understand why. Delivery at the Welt is infused with drama between the VIP treatment and the late Zaha Hadid's design brilliance. It is a special, memorable experience.

In Ingolstadt one arrives to an attractive but unremarkable office park setting, signs for the car in what looks like a large 1990s Audi dealership, and drives off. The Audi museum is worth a visit, but it is not the immersive automotive and cultural experience curated by BMW.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by karussell

When i found out the news I called up a dealer and got an M2C allocation for ED in September. Might as well go all out for the last time with a BMW. some old timers might know me. I set up group deliveries in 2014 and 2016. Anyone else planning the same? I'm going to throw together my favorite tracks. Its an M car. thats where it belongs. i can get track insurance since BMW seems to be completely off their rocker about what that means any more. Completely disappointed in the brand. This will be my last new BMW unless they bring the program back.

I have a F83 ZCP build scheduled for a late September PCD—could always flip to ED if there is enough of a group interest as I'm flexible since I set my own work schedule.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I have a F83 ZCP build scheduled for a late September PCD—could always flip to ED if there is enough of a group interest as I'm flexible since I set my own work schedule.

Not waiting for the G83?

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

Not waiting for the G83?

I'll have two G83's during the model cycle, it's just how the 3 year lease cycle runs. My monthly payment will drop close to 20% with new F83 due to the fact: 1) lower MF than 2017 2) higher residual than 2017 3) No ED lease MF modifier. PIA MPE will cut into the 20%— as August/September incentives can always improve and BMW FS invert the residual even more to move metal to clear out the lots.

From my past experience with new M models, some options are delayed for months until the next model year— especially with COVID-19 I expect options to be delayed due to OEM tier 1 suppliers. Also, I didn't want to extend my current F83 lease and be outside of warranty as I had to fix a SCH— I paid to play with a tune.

Finally, I'll have all the new BMW tech goodies when I swap my current F85 for a F95 comp in January. As the G83 SOP is November and it would be late spring until customer orders would arrive in the US— I'm not dealing with a waiting list and paying full MRSP.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I'll have two G83's during the model cycle, it's just how the 3 year lease cycle runs. My monthly payment will drop close to 20% with new F83 due to the fact: 1) lower MF than 2017 2) higher residual than 2017 3) No ED lease MF modifier. PIA MPE will cut into the 20%— as August/September incentives can always improve and BMW FS invert the residual even more to move metal to clear out the lots.

From my past experience with new M models, some options are delayed for months until the next model year— especially with COVID-19 I expect options to be delayed due to OEM tier 1 suppliers. Also, I didn't want to extend my current F83 lease and be outside of warranty as I had to fix a SCH— I paid to play with a tune.

Finally, I'll have all the new BMW tech goodies when I swap my current F85 for a F95 comp in January. As the G83 SOP is November and it would be late spring until customer orders would arrive in the US— I'm not dealing with a waiting list and paying full MRSP.

Gotcha. I was curious if the new "design" direction was having an effect on your decision to get one more F83.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by karussell

When i found out the news I called up a dealer and got an M2C allocation for ED in September. Might as well go all out for the last time with a BMW. some old timers might know me. I set up group deliveries in 2014 and 2016. Anyone else planning the same? I'm going to throw together my favorite tracks. Its an M car. thats where it belongs. i can get track insurance since BMW seems to be completely off their rocker about what that means any more. Completely disappointed in the brand. This will be my last new BMW unless they bring the program back.

Sent you PM...trying to do the same, but having struggles finding a dealer. Want an orange M2C, 6MT with sunroof. I'd love to do a group delivery! I also have the option to join the BMW M school ring lapping scheduled to be on October 9, so I'd really want a September 29/30 delivery...ideally September 30 in the afternoon...could we be the last ones? fyi Donnie with BMW driving schools has 3-4 seats as of now for that lapping.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

Agreed that companies need to make a profit, but ED needs to be viewed as a marketing expense.

Why is that?

[Ibiza]

[QUOTE=F82PRETEND;26154516I also have the option to join the BMW M school ring lapping scheduled to be on October 9, so I'd really want a September 29/30 delivery...ideally September 30 in the afternoon...could we be the last ones? fyi Donnie with BMW driving schools has 3-4 seats as of now for that lapping.[/QUOTE]

The "BMW M school ring lapping" is really the US Performance Center blocking a group for the BMW Driving Experience Program, as I have done 2 of these programs on my own already at the Ring, as there are 8-10 groups and the Ring is broken down into sections.

https://www.bmw-drivingexperience.co...dschleife.html

There are full laps, but it's follow the leader at the end of each day.

Next step up is the BMW M RACE TRACK TRAINING NORDSCHLEIFE PRO that is your the lead car and the instructor is in position #2.

https://www.bmw-drivingexperience.co...leife-pro.html

With the cancellation of Oktoberfest, what does Donnie have planned for ya all? BMW M is still showing availability for the 10/6 - 10/8 M4 program booking directly with them, as you know your paying for the travel expenses of the PC staff in your price. Donnie rides shot gun in the car, as the training is all done by BMW AG M engineers. BTW the the trainer staff has to be certified by BMW AG for Ring testing and training every 2 years based on their times. BMW AG has different levels of certification for the various test location and tracks.

PM me if you any questions, as I have done 6 trainings over in Europe so far with BMW M booking directly.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Why is that?

ED = brand loyalty = life time customer

No need for Conquest incentive money when the customer is not flipping over Lexus, MB or Audi, and stays loyal to the brand.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...-loyalty-study

"Automotive manufacturers have traditionally struggled with customer retention. Research by Bochmann Consulting estimated that commitment to repurchase falls from 90 percent directly after a purchase to 70 percent when the time comes to replace a vehicle. In scenarios when no financial relationship with the auto manufacturer exists, less than half of owners repurchase within the same brand. In effect, automotive companies lose out on up to 40 percent of intended repurchases during the period of vehicle ownership. The incentive and desire to improve this figure should be strong within the industry; NADA estimates a new customer acquisition cost of $617 per new vehicle sold."

https://www.informatica.com/content/...paper_2631.pdf

I'm sure the Conquest incentive expense is less that the BMW NA ED operational costs.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

ED = brand loyalty = life time customer

No need for Conquest incentive money when the customer is not flipping over Lexus, MB or Audi, and stays loyal to the brand.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...-loyalty-study

"Automotive manufacturers have traditionally struggled with customer retention. Research by Bochmann Consulting estimated that commitment to repurchase falls from 90 percent directly after a purchase to 70 percent when the time comes to replace a vehicle. In scenarios when no financial relationship with the auto manufacturer exists, less than half of owners repurchase within the same brand. In effect, automotive companies lose out on up to 40 percent of intended repurchases during the period of vehicle ownership. The incentive and desire to improve this figure should be strong within the industry; NADA estimates a new customer acquisition cost of $617 per new vehicle sold."

https://www.informatica.com/content/...paper_2631.pdf

I'm sure the Conquest incentive expense is less that the BMW NA ED operational costs.

Yup. I most likely wouldn't have left BMW if they didn't pull this bullshit. We have had a ton of their cars over the years. I was even contemplating jumping up to an ///M5 if the G8x is as hideous as it appears it will be.

We WERE brand loyal (4 EDs, PCD, ///M school). When it came time for our 1st SUV (tried to talk my wife out of it) she wouldn't even consider another brand. Now we will move on. BMW just lost us as customers. For what? The bean counters didn't want to spend the money to keep the program going. As I've said a few times. It's shortsighted and dumb.

Honestly I think the company is in real trouble. Identify crisis and everyone else is making a better product. Big deal they throw a manual in a sedan. It's the least they can do to try and keep some semblance of Motorsport in the brand. It's all but dead.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

The "BMW M school ring lapping" is really the US Performance Center blocking a group for the BMW Driving Experience Program, as I have done 2 of these programs on my own already at the Ring, as there are 8-10 groups and the Ring is broken down into sections.

https://www.bmw-drivingexperience.co...dschleife.html

There are full laps, but it's follow the leader at the end of each day.

Next step up is the BMW M RACE TRACK TRAINING NORDSCHLEIFE PRO that is your the lead car and the instructor is in position #2.

https://www.bmw-drivingexperience.co...leife-pro.html

With the cancellation of Oktoberfest, what does Donnie have planned for ya all? BMW M is still showing availability for the 10/6 - 10/8 M4 program booking directly with them, as you know your paying for the travel expenses of the PC staff in your price. Donnie rides shot gun in the car, as the training is all done by BMW AG M engineers. BTW the the trainer staff has to be certified by BMW AG for Ring testing and training every 2 years based on their times. BMW AG has different levels of certification for the various test location and tracks.

PM me if you any questions, as I have done 6 trainings over in Europe so far with BMW M booking directly.

Yea, I've done two trips to Europe with Donnie. I've thought about going on my own, but I enjoy the company of Donnie and Laura and the usual group. That said, the race level sounds really cool! If you have any insights on dealers that could get an allocation...that'd be helpful!

[sq86]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....So in short, only one viewpoint should be tolerated? That only sounds reasonable to you because you aren't the minority on this particular issue. The moment you are it becomes a different story altogether. Balance in any discussion is the key to constructive discourse.

Being in the minority opinion and voicing that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But when that minority point is taken consistently across multiple threads and used to berate others it's no longer a discussion but a soapbox which is used to incite antagonism.

Also news flash, were all in the minority being on a forum discussing BMWs.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

ED = brand loyalty = life time customer

Only one problem with that equation . . . ED < 500 customers/year

btw, if you've seen my other posts, you'll know I'm a huge ED fan (I've done six). I just think the program would have had a better chance of economic survival if it was an extra cost option, leaving all the normal customer and dealer incentives in place.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Only one problem with that equation . . . ED < 500 customers/year

btw, if you've seen my other posts, you'll know I'm a huge ED fan (I've done six). I just think the program would have had a better chance of economic survival if it was an extra cost option, leaving all the normal customer and dealer incentives in place.

BMW created ED < 500 a year

Let's not forget that little morsel

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Only one problem with that equation . . . ED < 500 customers/year

btw, if you've seen my other posts, you'll know I'm a huge ED fan (I've done six). I just think the program would have had a better chance of economic survival if it was an extra cost option, leaving all the normal customer and dealer incentives in place.

I highly doubt 500 ED's per year is accurate, as each ED I did there was at least 5 North American pick-ups. Figure 250 possible delivery days per year, no way only 2 North American customer deliveries per day. Also, the lease cycle is 3 years, at a minimum I feel that there was 2,000 brand loyal customers per cycle.

The number of North American customer deliveries that I observed may be skewed as I always picked up during Oktoberfest.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I highly doubt 500 ED's per year is accurate, as each ED I did there was at least 5 North American pick-ups. Figure 250 possible delivery days per year, no way only 2 North American customer deliveries per day.

Admittedly, I questioned that number as well based on my own experience. Then I thought that the number of North American EDs probably drops to near zero for at least four or five winter months. And it's not only the bad weather. Remember that winter tires are required by law in places like Austria from November 1 thru April 15. That's almost half the year. Winter tires aren't mandatory in Switzerland, but I don't think any of us want to be driving the passes in January on summer tires!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by sq86

Being in the minority opinion and voicing that is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But when that minority point is taken consistently across multiple threads and used to berate others it's no longer a discussion but a soapbox which is used to incite antagonism.

Also news flash, were all in the minority being on a forum discussing BMWs.

Well you have to admit that it's the nature of forums to act as soapboxes for complainers, so in many cases it almost forces people to present the opposing argument/perspective just to add balance. If nobody provided counter arguments then many of the threads would be nothing but a bunch of negativity, and there's nothing constructive about that.

[punky8d]

Really.. Was hoping to do one with my wife and kid in a couple of years after I get rid of the '18 CS.

[FCBayernFTW]

Originally Posted by Jason

Updated with statement from BMW

Ultimate Delivery Experience Continues in SC as Sun Sets on European Delivery
European Program to Begin Phasing Out Operations in May

"As the global market has evolved and BMW NA sales volumes have shifted more heavily towards SAVs during the past several years, the Performance Center Delivery in Spartanburg, South Carolina has seen continuing growth. Since its beginning in 1999, Performance Center Delivery has grown to more than 28,000 vehicle deliveries, while European Delivery, which has delivered approximately 30,000 vehicles since the 1970s, has experienced a significant decline in participation. Although BMW NA has historically represented an average of 2,000 European Deliveries annually, such deliveries have declined in recent years to under 500. Based on these trends and long-term evaluation, BMW Group will end the European Delivery Program in 2020 and cease accepting reservations as of May 18, 2020.

Our delivery programs have always provided owners with the opportunity to expand their BMW ownership experience and while BMW Group is ending the European operation due to declining global demand, we are proud to continue offering the Ultimate Delivery Experience to our customers through the Performance Center in Spartanburg," said April Vigilante, department head, corporate & special sales, BMW NA. "We encourage all centers to leverage this exciting program to immerse customers in the culture of BMW at the Zentrum, explore the factory and experience the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' on the track."

Ewwww.

Going to Germany and driving it there was the whole appeal....

Going to Dixie most certainly doesn't fill that loss! 😂😂😂

[mac128ic]

Definitely disappointed by this news. The only way I bought my BMWs are through ED. The experience and driving around Europe on your own car can't be matched.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by karussell

When i found out the news I called up a dealer and got an M2C allocation for ED in September. Might as well go all out for the last time with a BMW. some old timers might know me. I set up group deliveries in 2014 and 2016. Anyone else planning the same? I'm going to throw together my favorite tracks. Its an M car. thats where it belongs. i can get track insurance since BMW seems to be completely off their rocker about what that means any more. Completely disappointed in the brand. This will be my last new BMW unless they bring the program back.

Originally Posted by Ibiza

I have a F83 ZCP build scheduled for a late September PCD—could always flip to ED if there is enough of a group interest as I'm flexible since I set my own work schedule.

I've submitted for late September...like 28-30th on a 2021 model. No allocation, a little scary, but he's confident he can get it. If anyone's looking to do the group trip and around those dates, let's set it up!

Also, I have another dealer with a MY2020 allocation and they can go as late as end of August ED...super upfront, ED MSRP, no nonsense. Happy to share his contact.

[TTG]

ED was a great experience and I am sure it will come back. I blame it mostly on dealers for trying to avoid ED and BMW not making it easy(ier) on dealers.

ED was the only way to buy a BMW in 2000's when you can easily walk into a dealer, offer them ED invoice + a fee and the cars did not come out of their allocations. It was a win-win for everyone. BMW sold a car, dealer made some $$$ for entering an order in the system and Germany / EU got tourist revenue.

As they made this harder and harder, reasons for ordering ED cars have diminished.... especially for W. Coast customers. (order to state side is almost 5 months)

I did not even consider ED when ordering my M340.