[Soul_Glo]

Random find:

https://scienmag.com/how-dangerous-a...electric-cars/

Got me thinking. Someone's 330e caught fire a while back. There was also a show on a few years ago and Tesla battery kept catching fire even once put out.

[angelr]

Well if it's on fire I'd recommend you keep your distance. Not sure if that distance should be greater than for a petrol car however, sorry.

[yco]

well as it stated in the article even putting out the fire is another problem with batteries.. and since they can catch fire with air as well.. its messy comparing with a petrol car fire..

its few days old.. its a bit complicated since fire fighters were already spraying water before the explosion..

[Redd]

It's basic battery chemistry. There is no way the battery will not ignite when exposed to heat and air. Worse thing is, once ignited it cannot be put out. It's essentially a lithium fire.

Even the aerospace industry has tried and failed to science their way out of this. Their solution - Let's put a big fire blanket around the battery and hope it gives the plane enough time to land before it crashes and kills everyone.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Soul_Glo

How dangerous are burning electric cars?

About three.

[Smgs1992]

Well if youre a grand tour fan, youd remember that the remic that richard hammond wrecked stayed caught on fire for 4days.
I’m surprised no one thinks of these issues when buying or making electric cars.
I’d be worried about hydrogen cars too

[zx10guy]

There has with at least some of us engineers. I worked at an environmental company where the lead engineer got his research project funded by the likes of EPRI, BG&E, PEPCO, Battelle, to name a few.

The project was to measure hydrogen emissions from a normal charge cycle of an electric vehicle in a residential setting. This was way before Lithium batteries hit the market en mass. We tested the GM EV1 before it hit the market. The cars were charged in an actual home's garage in a residential neighborhood owned by the company. We had sensors all over the interior of the garage measuring hydrogen gas.

I'm sure there have been tests done by various entities.

[romero1990]

single cell failure does not necessarily mean it will cause whole battery pack goes kaboom if design is done right. But given the technology and capacity push.... propagation is probably inevitable. As the pack goes bigger.. the burn lasts longer.

On the bright side, unless the design is really done wrong, the passenger should have sufficient time to get away for safety.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

There has with at least some of us engineers. I worked at an environmental company where the lead engineer got his research project funded by the likes of EPRI, BG&E, PEPCO, Battelle, to name a few.

The project was to measure hydrogen emissions from a normal charge cycle of an electric vehicle in a residential setting. This was way before Lithium batteries hit the market en mass. We tested the GM EV1 before it hit the market. The cars were charged in an actual home's garage in a residential neighborhood owned by the company. We had sensors all over the interior of the garage measuring hydrogen gas.

I'm sure there have been tests done by various entities.

Results of the test?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Results of the test?

Keep in mind the test vehicles were very crude. We had 4 test vehicles. Two were Geo Metros converted to have EV powerplants. One of them had a solar array on the roof to facilitate some small amount of trickle charging of the batteries. One was a Ford Econoline passenger van. The thing weighed in excess of 4 tons due to all the batteries. All of these EVs used lead acid batteries. And of course the GM EV1.

Side story about the GM EV1. The car and the program was so secretive when the car was delivered to the test house, it was done well into dusk. This was done so that any spy photos wouldn't be of good quality. The car was delivered in a enclosed semi trailer. The car was immediately off loaded and pushed into the garage and immediately closed off. The semi trailer had Hughes Network Systems plastered all over the sides of it. The lead engineer was able to take some pictures of it, I have them some where in my hoarding pile.

So for the tests, I drove all the vehicles around till the batteries were near drained. The EV1 I wasn't involved with. The lead engineer was the only one allowed to drive it and don't know how he went about draining the batteries. I took all the vehicles onto the highway. The Metros would only get up to a max of about 60 to 65 MPH. I don't remember how fast I got the Econoline but I remember not wanting to drive it too fast as that thing was totally unstable with the weight of the batteries. After draining the batteries, the vehicles were brought back to the test house and loaded into the garage. The home's electrical system was modified to supply the needed 220V power to charge the vehicles. The Geo Metros sailed through the test without issues. The Econoline however..... Not even about a quarter of the way into the charge cycle, the hydrogen levels were approaching the LEL (lower explosive limit). We had to terminate the test as there was no signs of the hydrogen leveling off.

The EV1 test also passed. Charging it was different. It had a specific charging station which looked similar to how a B&O speaker would look if you're familiar with that audio manufacturer. Very futuristic looking. The charging station had a paddle for the charging connection which seemed to work via induction. The paddle inserted into the front of the car through a rectangular receptacle.

This project was one of the coolest; especially since I was in my early 20s just out of college.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Keep in mind the test vehicles were very crude. We had 4 test vehicles. Two were Geo Metros converted to have EV powerplants. One of them had a solar array on the roof to facilitate some small amount of trickle charging of the batteries. One was a Ford Econoline passenger van. The thing weighed in excess of 4 tons due to all the batteries. All of these EVs used lead acid batteries. And of course the GM EV1.

Side story about the GM EV1. The car and the program was so secretive when the car was delivered to the test house, it was done well into dusk. This was done so that any spy photos wouldn't be of good quality. The car was delivered in a enclosed semi trailer. The car was immediately off loaded and pushed into the garage and immediately closed off. The semi trailer had Hughes Network Systems plastered all over the sides of it. The lead engineer was able to take some pictures of it, I have them some where in my hoarding pile.

So for the tests, I drove all the vehicles around till the batteries were near drained. The EV1 I wasn't involved with. The lead engineer was the only one allowed to drive it and don't know how he went about draining the batteries. I took all the vehicles onto the highway. The Metros would only get up to a max of about 60 to 65 MPH. I don't remember how fast I got the Econoline but I remember not wanting to drive it too fast as that thing was totally unstable with the weight of the batteries. After draining the batteries, the vehicles were brought back to the test house and loaded into the garage. The home's electrical system was modified to supply the needed 220V power to charge the vehicles. The Geo Metros sailed through the test without issues. The Econoline however..... Not even about a quarter of the way into the charge cycle, the hydrogen levels were approaching the LEL (lower explosive limit). We had to terminate the test as there was no signs of the hydrogen leveling off.

The EV1 test also passed. Charging it was different. It had a specific charging station which looked similar to how a B&O speaker would look if you're familiar with that audio manufacturer. Very futuristic looking. The charging station had a paddle for the charging connection which seemed to work via induction. The paddle inserted into the front of the car through a rectangular receptacle.

This project was one of the coolest; especially since I was in my early 20s just out of college.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I am not a huge fan of EV's at this point and don't know if my view will ever be changed. After that Remic fire I was really turned off.

[roastbeef]

this is a common thing brought up with electric cars. just keep in mind that the gas tanks aren't impenetrable and gasoline is highly combustible and has a high energy potential.

[Smgs1992]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

this is a common thing brought up with electric cars. just keep in mind that the gas tanks aren't impenetrable and gasoline is highly combustible and has a high energy potential.

No i think some of us remember the ford pinto however that is apples to oranges. The difference is that why a gas tank can catch fire and explode. It can also be put out. A lithium battery fire cannot. So for example if youve ever seen a car on fire on the side of the highway. Imagine that you drive past the same car for the next 3-5days and it is still burning polluting the environment and creating a dangerous hazard to anyone around. I’m not sure what the protocol will be for these situations. Do they leave the highways open and let it burn on the side of the road or do they shut them down creating a huge inconvenience and waste of resources.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

No i think some of us remember the ford pinto however that is apples to oranges. The difference is that why a gas tank can catch fire and explode. It can also be put out. A lithium battery fire cannot. So for example if youve ever seen a car on fire on the side of the highway. Imagine that you drive past the same car for the next 3-5days and it is still burning polluting the environment and creating a dangerous hazard to anyone around. I’m not sure what the protocol will be for these situations. Do they leave the highways open and let it burn on the side of the road or do they shut them down creating a huge inconvenience and waste of resources.

I've seen Tesla fires, and they don't last for days.

[TNTMYM3]

It depends on your technique, I personally would prefer to remote detonate vs burn them on the spot.

[Smgs1992]

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/te...ry?id=59930420
This one took 16hrs to put out

Not to mention the numerous websites talking about how electric cars are reigniting 20-30hrs after being put out

Theyre incredibly dangerous if they catch on fire. No reason to downplay that simply because youre a fan of them

[RM7]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

this is a common thing brought up with electric cars. just keep in mind that the gas tanks aren't impenetrable and gasoline is highly combustible and has a high energy potential.

I think we are seeing a new level of this in current gasoline cars, they have fuel pumps and fuel lines that now have to push so much more fuel for thirsty engines that can put out 600+hp from the factory where the engine bay is all crammed with close-fitting turbos and other gear that when things go wrong, they go very wrong. Plenty of Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo and other fires these days that prove this point. I guess with electrics the idea is that there will be more cars at lower pricepoints than these exotics, but the exotics also aren't really making the electrics look "bad" in this respect.

My WRX seemed to leak from the fuel rail in the cold.

The way it's been taught to put out the fires from the FAA is keep the cells cool while the affected cell does it's thing, that means pour with water and any liquid you can to keep them cool, vs. the compromised/on fire cell causing thermal runaway and affecting all the cells.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Smgs1992

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/te...ry?id=59930420
This one took 16hrs to put out

Not to mention the numerous websites talking about how electric cars are reigniting 20-30hrs after being put out

Theyre incredibly dangerous if they catch on fire. No reason to downplay that simply because youre a fan of them

i don't have anything to gain from "defending" electric cars, but i try to correct inaccurate information from time to time. sometimes i'm corrected, thank you. my first thought, is there probably isn't great training for the fire department in extinguishing incendiary fires from batteries. they are different than electrical fires. i'm not an authority on the matter, but my knee jerk first though is lack of proper technique.
maybe the proper response to an ev car fire would be foam? i have no idea. its just fuel, heat, and oxygen... take away the oxygen.