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      08-21-2015, 09:50 AM   #23
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Right...that's why BMW decided on the M6 for it's next GT3 with power coming from production motors

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/201...-ar165671.html

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      08-21-2015, 09:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
It's simply too big in terms of weight and footprint. Can you do it? Sure, I know a guy who turned a Chrysler 300 into a track car. Should you?

- Heavier cars are harder to drive
- Large size makes it less nimble, regardless of weight, it will suffer in low speed corners
- V10 parts expensive
- It WILL break
- Bigger car = bigger brakes and tires = $$$$
- Limited aftermarket support
+1
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      08-21-2015, 09:54 AM   #25
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To OP if you seem to really want to do it. Noones gonna say your silly. In the end of the day there may be 1 or 2 who have done but it's not something done on the regular because of all the points people and you have brought forward. really it's not the ideal car. But I'm sure it could be done.
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      08-21-2015, 10:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger_Extract View Post
It's simply too big in terms of weight and footprint. Can you do it? Sure, I know a guy who turned a Chrysler 300 into a track car. Should you?

- Heavier cars are harder to drive
- Large size makes it less nimble, regardless of weight, it will suffer in low speed corners
- V10 parts expensive
- It WILL break
- Bigger car = bigger brakes and tires = $$$$
- Limited aftermarket support
Curb weight of e63 M6 is only 70 pounds more than an e9x m3. However, it comes with 86 more horsepower.

My point is that it really isn't a heavier car. The difference is minimal.

KMS builds a killer s85 race engine as well!
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      08-21-2015, 10:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfo122 View Post
RRT in Sterling, VA put together a pretty neat M6 build:

http://www.rrtptm.com/performance-an...-m6-track-car/
Awesome!!! Thank you for link.
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      08-21-2015, 12:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
Curb weight of e63 M6 is only 70 pounds more than an e9x m3. However, it comes with 86 more horsepower.

My point is that it really isn't a heavier car. The difference is minimal.

KMS builds a killer s85 race engine as well!
It seems you opened this thread to ask a question to which you are already convinced you know the answer.

The s85 is a great motor but they do have a lot more reliability issues than the s65. I was doing quite a bit of research on the s85 before doing my s65 swap and while it has more power, it is around 80lbs heavier than an s65, has oil pump issues and a few other problems. It was the wrong motor for my car from a balance perspective. S85's are also more common than s65's as not only has the platform been around longer, the cars have aluminum frames and are written off as salvage's much easier than the e9x's.

I would be curious to the exact benefits of the e9x suspension vs the e6x. The e9x really comes from the generation after the e6x and i imagine the benefits are equal to that of the e46 to the e9x.
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      08-21-2015, 12:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
It seems you opened this thread to ask a question to which you are already convinced you know the answer.

The s85 is a great motor but they do have a lot more reliability issues than the s65. I was doing quite a bit of research on the s85 before doing my s65 swap and while it has more power, it is around 80lbs heavier than an s65, has oil pump issues and a few other problems. It was the wrong motor for my car from a balance perspective. S85's are also more common than s65's as not only has the platform been around longer, the cars have aluminum frames and are written off as salvage's much easier than the e9x's.

I would be curious to the exact benefits of the e9x suspension vs the e6x. The e9x really comes from the generation after the e6x and i imagine the benefits are equal to that of the e46 to the e9x.
I def do not think I know the answer... I was really looking for input from people like you who have gone about extreme builds to see why they chose specific platforms / engines.

I just find it interesting how the e63 chassis is pretty much the same weight as an e9x chassis but with a more powerful engine. I guess it could be rarity of the e63 cars but if anything that makes it more special.

Another question I was looking for input on is exactly what you mentioned, what are the suspension differences. And do those differences make either chassis more capable than the other.
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      08-21-2015, 12:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I def do not think I know the answer... I was really looking for input from people like you who have gone about extreme builds to see why they chose specific platforms / engines.

I just find it interesting how the e63 chassis is pretty much the same weight as an e9x chassis but with a more powerful engine. I guess it could be rarity of the e63 cars but if anything that makes it more special.
e63's are actually very common.

I think the main reasons the e9x is a more natural choice:
- s85 requires more maintenance and is less tested
- e63 weighs more / is bigger
- e63 has inferior suspension to e9x
- e9x has more aftermarket support
- e9x w/ 4.6L stroker combined with being ~70lbs less = better choice

Also, the weight numbers I found showed the e63 weighing 287lbs more than the 6MT e92.
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      08-22-2015, 05:28 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfo122 View Post
RRT in Sterling, VA put together a pretty neat M6 build:

http://www.rrtptm.com/performance-an...-m6-track-car/
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      08-22-2015, 06:39 PM   #32
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I'm sure it's not an insurmountable issue, but weren't manual E6x cars unable to turn off DSC? I thought the manual ones always got terrible reviews because of this.

I'm sure software must be able to correct this, but I think BMW gave some goofy excuse that since the S85 was designed solely around the awful SMG, they weren't able to turn off DSC for the manual.

And when did an E9x M ever weigh 3,700 pounds?
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      08-22-2015, 06:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
e63's are actually very common.

I think the main reasons the e9x is a more natural choice:
- s85 requires more maintenance and is less tested
- e63 weighs more / is bigger
- e63 has inferior suspension to e9x
- e9x has more aftermarket support
- e9x w/ 4.6L stroker combined with being ~70lbs less = better choice

Also, the weight numbers I found showed the e63 weighing 287lbs more than the 6MT e92.
Regarding your main points:

-I agree that the s85 is less tested as a unit but the s65 is simply an s85 with 2 cylinders loped off.
-The M6 does weigh more and is bigger but not by much...less than 2%. This is more than offset by the HP advantage.
-I disagree on the suspension. Adjustable makes it approximately equivalent. As in all cars, tire selection is critical.
-The aftermarket support is irrefutable. Lower price point, much different age and socioeconomic demographics as well as much greater manufactured numbers lend to this fact.

I track my M6 fairly often and pass M3's on the straights and in high speed curves all the time. In tighter, more technical turns the M3 is superior. The HP advantage of the M6 is hard to beat.

E63 M6
3,770 lb (1,710 kg) Coupe
4,420 lb (2,000 kg) Convertible

here are the weights of the e90 M3 for comparison:
Coupe: 3,704 lb (1,680 kg)
saloon: 3,726 lb (1,690 kg)
Convertible: 4,145 lb (1,880 kg)
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      08-22-2015, 07:31 PM   #34
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Bigger drives bigger regardless of weight.

Aftermarket support is hugely important to tracking.

Bigger cars eat through more of everything-- tires, brakes, gas.

Engine is less reliable.

They're ugly.

BMW disabled dsc because they said the trains wasn't reliable if people were allowed to drive with dsc off

It's harder to work on, and track cars need a lot of working on

Larger cars just feel worse and out of place on track. You have less options for car placement.
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      08-22-2015, 07:36 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
Right...that's why BMW decided on the M6 for it's next GT3 with power coming from production motors

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/201...-ar165671.html

That'll be as much an M6 as turner's (tube frame, s62 powered) M6 was.
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      08-22-2015, 08:22 PM   #36
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I've thought about this before...the issue I've had is finding a 6sp MT, but conceptually I think the idea is sound. Given the relatively low weight, if you focus on real unsprung weight reduction (wheels, tires, brakes, D/A suspension... I bet you can get 100 lbs out maybe more), it probably will be as quick around the corners as anything out there and the straights will be faster than nearly everything. This would be pretty quick car, IMO.
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      08-23-2015, 10:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C5driver View Post
Right...that's why BMW decided on the M6 for it's next GT3 with power coming from production motors

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/201...-ar165671.html

And guaranteed it won't be built on an M6 production chassis, just like the e92 m3 wasn't. They are built on a tube chassis because of the obvious reasons.
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      08-26-2015, 09:08 PM   #38
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E46 M3.
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