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      10-05-2020, 03:44 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by th868 View Post
Yes and no, sometimes shifting can be tiring
In heavy traffic, I agree but it is fun driving a manual on twisty country roads
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      10-05-2020, 04:26 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
In heavy traffic, I agree but it is fun driving a manual on twisty country roads
“Sometimes”
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      10-05-2020, 04:50 AM   #91
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manual is fun.. driving an automatic is so easy, sometimes you get sleepy when you have nothing to do
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      10-09-2020, 03:19 AM   #92
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I drive my 67 Vette regularly, and while the freshly rebuilt Muncie 4-speed has its moments of joy and nostalgia, a good auto would be faster, smoother, and frankly a better all around ride. That’s why more and more vintage rides are being converted to restomods and commanding exponentially more money than many original or restored classic cars.

For a modern daily driver... the MT is a dinosaur and soon to be just as extinct.
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      10-09-2020, 04:41 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteGuy View Post
I drive my 67 Vette regularly, and while the freshly rebuilt Muncie 4-speed has its moments of joy and nostalgia, a good auto would be faster, smoother, and frankly a better all around ride. That’s why more and more vintage rides are being converted to restomods and commanding exponentially more money than many original or restored classic cars.

For a modern daily driver... the MT is a dinosaur and soon to be just as extinct.
Sounds to me like you should trade up to a C8 since you want something “faster, smoother, and a frankly all around better ride”. Those moments of nostalgia and joy you mentioned in your 67 would be the sole reason to own and drive a 53 year old car regularly.

The reason people do restomods for plenty of reasons, not just because they hate their 4 speeds lol. They want better performance... drum brakes suck, new fuel injected engines make better power, modern suspension handles and rides better, new parts are more reliable, etc. It’s pretty clear restomods are not just born because people want to make the car an automatic. Maybe you noticed there’s plenty of resto mods with modern 6 speeds.

If your baseline is a 53 year old manual then of course it’s not great. The only way to make it fair you should be comparing that to a 53 year old 3 speed automatic. I don’t see anyone loving those! Maybe we should compare a modern flat screen to an old black and white TV too lol

I drove a cayman GT4 last year and it was amazing as a manual. Of course it wasn’t 53 year old iron.

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      10-09-2020, 07:06 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Sounds to me like you should trade up to a C8 since you want something “faster, smoother, and a frankly all around better ride”. Those moments of nostalgia and joy you mentioned in your 67 would be the sole reason to own and drive a 53 year old car regularly.

The reason people do restomods for plenty of reasons, not just because they hate their 4 speeds lol. They want better performance... drum brakes suck, new fuel injected engines make better power, modern suspension handles and rides better, new parts are more reliable, etc. It’s pretty clear restomods are not just born because people want to make the car an automatic. Maybe you noticed there’s plenty of resto mods with modern 6 speeds.

If your baseline is a 53 year old manual then of course it’s not great. The only way to make it fair you should be comparing that to a 53 year old 3 speed automatic. I don’t see anyone loving those! Maybe we should compare a modern flat screen to an old black and white TV too lol

I drove a cayman GT4 last year and it was amazing as a manual. Of course it wasn’t 53 year old iron.
I guess I wasn’t clear with my point. Not making a real comparison, just an observation. I love my 53 year 3 month and 4 day old car, even more than my modern ones. And, I like the nostalgia, as do thousands of other vintage car enthusiasts, especially those who actually and seriously race vintage cars of all types.

That said, if you buy a car only because you enjoy the MT, That’s cool, but you may miss other aspects of the hobby or the adventure. Sure, shifting can be fun, sometimes not as much so. Performance wise, many of the autos and DCTs we have today are Faster and far superior to the MT.

So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
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      10-09-2020, 07:12 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Sounds to me like you should trade up to a C8 since you want something “faster, smoother, and a frankly all around better ride”. Those moments of nostalgia and joy you mentioned in your 67 would be the sole reason to own and drive a 53 year old car regularly.

The reason people do restomods for plenty of reasons, not just because they hate their 4 speeds lol. They want better performance... drum brakes suck, new fuel injected engines make better power, modern suspension handles and rides better, new parts are more reliable, etc. It’s pretty clear restomods are not just born because people want to make the car an automatic. Maybe you noticed there’s plenty of resto mods with modern 6 speeds.

If your baseline is a 53 year old manual then of course it’s not great. The only way to make it fair you should be comparing that to a 53 year old 3 speed automatic. I don’t see anyone loving those! Maybe we should compare a modern flat screen to an old black and white TV too lol

I drove a cayman GT4 last year and it was amazing as a manual. Of course it wasn’t 53 year old iron.
I guess I wasn’t clear with my point. Not making a real comparison, just an observation. I love my 53 year 3 month and 4 day old car, even more than my modern ones. It has 400 rowdy hp and disc brakes. And, I like the nostalgia, as do thousands of other vintage car enthusiasts, especially those who actually, and seriously, race vintage cars of all types.

That said, if you buy a car only because you enjoy the MT, that’s cool, but you may miss other aspects of the adventure. Sure, shifting can be fun, but sometimes just not as much so. Performance wise, many of the autos and DCTs we have today are faster and far superior to the MT, especially in the wrong hands.

So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the MT lovers among the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
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      10-09-2020, 09:45 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteGuy View Post
So, enjoy the MT, but they’ll most likely only be available new for a handful of more years, which means the MT lovers among the 75 percent of BMW drivers who lease their cars will be adapting to paddle shifting sooner than later, or also buying a somewhat vintage weekend car.
The same could be said for ICE engines... Enjoy them while you can!
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      10-09-2020, 08:30 PM   #97
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2018 BMW M2  [7.68]
My M2 is my first DCT M. Before I always had a manual. With the DCT being faster and getting better mileage, I don’t miss my manual. This is especially true in Seattle traffic.
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      10-09-2020, 09:35 PM   #98
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Yes... I miss my Saab 93... Beautiful car, that GM didn't keep. Gone Saab.
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      10-09-2020, 10:48 PM   #99
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Yes... I miss my Saab 93... Beautiful car, that GM didn't keep. Gone Saab.
loved that car
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      10-10-2020, 04:10 PM   #100
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Only reason I bought a BMW was the MT. Now I have many other reasons too, and I think MT will be available for another 10 years+

Teaching my kids, and they are like "why aren't more cars manual, this is awesome"

Good questions kids, I guess some folks grow up
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      10-11-2020, 10:10 PM   #101
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went on vacay to arizona and rented a Z4 (the n54 dct one) and 2013 R8 v10 spyder (the single clutch lambo e-gear).

around town the r8 was a bit of a mess. it lurches alot and the only way to smooth it out is to ease up on the gas during your paddle flicks. on the highway and booking it the r-tronic does ok. The Z4 had a far better trans for everything. But yeah convertibles are aimed towards 'experience' rather than performance. manual would have stepped up the experience quite a bit imo
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      10-12-2020, 05:14 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
In heavy traffic, I agree but it is fun driving a manual on twisty country roads
And if I primarily drove on twisty roads, I may miss it more. But I spend 95% of my time on regular roads, and then I don't miss the manual much at all.

But really, I'm waiting on some car company or tuner to create an actual dual manual/DCT transmission....where you actually have a stick shift sitting in the console along with 3 pedals for manual driving, but then you can slide the stick into "auto" gear mode where the car will do all the shifting for you, through some kind of a DCT transmission. And the clutch pedal/engagement would be locked out and even maybe retract out of the way.

No, maybe you wouldn't be able to do it on "the fly" while the car's moving, or even at a stoplight...maybe you'd need to do something while the engine is off to "switch" the characteristic of the transmission.

Sure, it may cost $15k to $20k, and only available on super cars, but if it works well and car enthusiasts want it, they could find a way to produce it for less for a more mid-level $100k type of a car like an M3 or Porsche 911.

Wouldn't this be neat, a true manual/DCT option within the same car, almost at the "press of a button"? The best of both worlds! Hey, we can dream, right?
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      10-12-2020, 05:43 PM   #103
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ummm that would kill 1/2 the discussions on these boards though
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      10-12-2020, 06:42 PM   #104
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Yes. Every. Single. Day.

Had an E92. Had a kid.

Now I have an Accord.
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      10-13-2020, 12:17 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
And if I primarily drove on twisty roads, I may miss it more. But I spend 95% of my time on regular roads, and then I don't miss the manual much at all.

But really, I'm waiting on some car company or tuner to create an actual dual manual/DCT transmission....where you actually have a stick shift sitting in the console along with 3 pedals for manual driving, but then you can slide the stick into "auto" gear mode where the car will do all the shifting for you, through some kind of a DCT transmission. And the clutch pedal/engagement would be locked out and even maybe retract out of the way.

No, maybe you wouldn't be able to do it on "the fly" while the car's moving, or even at a stoplight...maybe you'd need to do something while the engine is off to "switch" the characteristic of the transmission.

Sure, it may cost $15k to $20k, and only available on super cars, but if it works well and car enthusiasts want it, they could find a way to produce it for less for a more mid-level $100k type of a car like an M3 or Porsche 911.

Wouldn't this be neat, a true manual/DCT option within the same car, almost at the "press of a button"? The best of both worlds! Hey, we can dream, right?
its definitely possible

we already have throttle and brake by wire. its only a matter of time before clutch-by-wire. computer controlled clutch engagement with some fake feedback through the pedal. it would feel like a real manual, but prevent mis shifts... and be able to go into full auto / dct mode.

doubt any company would dump money into this idea though.
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      10-13-2020, 02:16 AM   #106
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Not a bad idea there Kevin, Auto for town and city and manual for fun on country roads
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      10-13-2020, 04:11 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post

doubt any company would dump money into this idea though.
I’m surprised this hasn’t been done. Considering how much tuning they can do with boxes like the ZF8, I’m sure they could simulate some manual characteristics with a digital clutch pedal and H pattern.
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      10-13-2020, 08:47 AM   #108
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https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyun...-transmission/

I know it's missing a pedal and that pedal is just as important... but I found this interesting.
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      10-13-2020, 11:27 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBO View Post
I’m surprised this hasn’t been done. Considering how much tuning they can do with boxes like the ZF8, I’m sure they could simulate some manual characteristics with a digital clutch pedal and H pattern.
It has been done with a torque converter. Alfa did it back in the day.

https://drivetribe.com/p/bring-it-ba...Ss-Pio88O57fEA

I have long advocated for such a system with dct equipped cars. Porsche let’s you “clutch in” by pulling both paddles in a pdk. Map that function to a pedal. Same with the shifter, you’re not replacing a physical connection, just an electronic signal. If you look at some of the high end shifters in the sim racing market, they’ve managed to simulate some pretty good feel.

The upside for manufacturers is that they get to design the car to only have one transmission while still pleasing manual enthusiasts, cutting down on r and d costs while still tapping the market.

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      10-13-2020, 02:54 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No way it will ever feel like a real manual gearbox.
Nope. But if that’s my only option, I’m taking it over the alternative. I’ve dabbled in sim racing enough that I’ve gotten to fool around with some very high end shifters. They feel nice, but obviously no feedback.
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