135i vs. Cayman

gimme135 · 11-08-2007, 01:26 AM

I might be a dunce when it comes to image. I'm starting to seriously consider the Cayman, while 12k more than the 135i, as a reasonable comparison. Maybe it's even more ultimate as a driving machine. The power-to-weight ratio of the 135i, though, keeps bringing me back. What strikes you most in comparing the two?

1Power · 11-08-2007, 03:11 AM

I considered a Cayman. Excellent ride. But after adding the very pricey options & factoring in the expensive maintenance costs & higher insurance, the Cayman costs are way, WAY higher than the 135. Plus, the 135 will have power similar to the Cayman S. Way faster than the Cayman.

chackoc · 11-08-2007, 06:55 AM

1Power's right about the price difference, but if you can accommodate that, you really owe it to yourself to test drive both. (Especially if you've never driven a mid-engined car before). The two offer completely different driving experiences and one is probably going to appeal to you much more than the other.

Also stock for stock both Caymans offer slightly better pw ratios than the 335 (and the 135 assuming same engine output and 200 lbs lighter). Clearly the 135 engine has some big tuning potential though.

Code:

Model           Year    HP      Curb    Ratio   Accel   Top Speed       CD      MPG     MSRP (USD)

335i Coupe      2007    300     3571    11.9    5.3     150     0.3     29/20   40800
135i Coupe      2007    300     3371    11.2    ???     ???     ???     ?????   ?????
Cayman          2007    245     2867    9.72    N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A
Cayman S        2007    295     2976    10.09   N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A

http://www.aspecpro.com/

chackoc · 11-08-2007, 07:11 AM

Incidentally, that last post was meant to be objective. The nonobjective side of me would have just posted this :biggrin:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi..._cayman_s.html

atr_hugo · 11-08-2007, 07:29 AM

The Cayman S is the standard which I'm judging the 135i on - I know the 135i won't touch the chassis dynamics of the Cayman but if it comes fairly close then the value of the 135i will be more than adequate to bridge the gap. You need to drive a Cayman - it is an excellent driver, one of the best around. The CG of the Cayman is lower than the 135i, more weight is inside the centerline of the axles - so it WILL rotate better. It's a great car but you'll spend over $65K to get a comparable amount of kit on the Cayman S as the 135i. The Scot in me tells me the 135i is a better value (and that and when I'm traveling the American west, do I want to park the Porsche in the lot of the Super 8 Motel in Cortez, CO? ; -).

All things being equal - if Subaru made a mid-engined coupe with their 6 cylinder boxer motor - and they got the chassis dynamics right - I'd be in one of those immediately (even if I did have to wear a paper bag due to styling ; -).

RU_FASTR · 11-08-2007, 08:55 AM

Are we really comparing the 135i with a Cayman S? Just because they similar power to weight ratios doesn't mean a thing. They are two completely different cars, I can't imagine the 135i coming close to the Cayman S in driving dynamics. Seriously folks...have you driven a Cayman S?

atr_hugo · 11-08-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUFASTR

Are we really comparing the 135i with a Cayman S? Just because they similar power to weight ratios doesn't mean a thing. They are two completely different cars, I can't imagine the 135i coming close to the Cayman S in driving dynamics. Seriously folks...have you driven a Cayman S?

Yes - multiple times. I believe you and I agree that the 135i won't have the Cayman's dynamics. That said - if after I have a chance to drive the 135i and find it's too much of a letdown - then it's back to square one.

1Power · 11-08-2007, 10:37 AM

I totally agree with the above-mentioned merits of the Cayman - particularly the Cayman S.

If money was not a factor & practicality of a coupe was not an issue, I would definitely choose a Cayman S over the 135. I test-drove an S this summer & was hot for one - figuring what a great performance value it would be after the prevailing discount. However, after adding the options, the higher insurance & the high maintenance costs, it became a budget buster for me.

The reason I initially replied to this post is because gimme135 seemed to say a Cayman was close in price to the 135 - only 12k more. IMO, the total cost difference is much larger than that. And that total cost difference does not allow a fair comparison.

I'm a great admirer of the Cayman S, but I can't afford one for now. I'm hoping the 135 meets my expectations.

imported_MPower · 11-08-2007, 10:46 AM

Personally, I would much rather have the Boxster S rather than the Cayman S. The Cayman looks ungainly with that hatch. And, when you factor in the price of options, I tend to think that a 911 is a better buy.

As for how it compares to the 135i, it all remains to be seen but what you will probably notice throughout all your comparisons is that the 135i has a distinct advantage in power but will probably not provide the feedback and crisp handling you may be looking for. Again, it all remains to be seen.

gimme135 · 11-08-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chackoc

...Also stock for stock both Caymans offer slightly better pw ratios than the 335 (and the 135 assuming same engine output and 200 lbs lighter)...

Code:

Model           Year    HP      Curb    Ratio   Accel   Top Speed       CD      MPG     MSRP (USD)

335i Coupe      2007    300     3571    11.9    5.3     150     0.3     29/20   40800
135i Coupe      2007    300     3371    11.2    ???     ???     ???     ?????   ?????
Cayman          2007    245     2867    9.72    N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A
Cayman S        2007    295     2976    10.09   N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A     N/A

http://www.aspecpro.com/

There's an error: 2867/245=11.70
I don't know where you got 9.72

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Power

...IMO, the total cost difference is much larger than that. And that total cost difference does not allow a fair comparison.

I'm a great admirer of the Cayman S, but I can't afford one for now. I'm hoping the 135 meets my expectations.

I'm NOT considering the Cayman S. That's definitely higher priced for the higher power. I'm considering the regular Cayman because even without the near-300HP engine, it has the superior chassis dynamics to make up for it. That's the key apples to oranges comparison.

And without taking much of the pricey options (for either Cayman or 135i), the price difference might be mostly maintenance costs after the roughly 12k-14k splurge.

And don't you all do your own maintenance? I do whatever I can if it doesn't require special tools (and I consider purchasing special tools, too), more because I do a much cleaner, thorough, loving job on my own vehicle than any grease monkey I know of. Always have, always will.

Then it comes down to reliability and rattles and squeaks of the two...

matt · 11-08-2007, 01:24 PM

what color is on that 135i?

the2doors · 11-08-2007, 01:51 PM

I'm not sure what formula you guys are using but those numbers are all wrong. You have to devide power by weight, then take the inverse. The lower the number the better. The Caymen S actually has the most HP per LBS.

Cayman S 10.09
135i 11.23
Cayman 11.76
335i 11.90

Crowley · 11-08-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RUFASTR

Are we really comparing the 135i with a Cayman S? Just because they similar power to weight ratios doesn't mean a thing. They are two completely different cars, I can't imagine the 135i coming close to the Cayman S in driving dynamics. Seriously folks...have you driven a Cayman S?

+1 ... two totally different animals ..

Crowley

kurichan · 11-08-2007, 04:51 PM

If you can afford the Cayman and you want a REAL sports car, there is no comparison.

Cayman = light, very real sports car with nearly perfect handling

135i = piggy hopped up economy car in coupe guise with understeer

Is there any comparison?

chackoc · 11-08-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimme135

There's an error: 2867/245=11.70
I don't know where you got 9.72

Definitely an error, but I'm blaming the source

:
http://www.aspecpro.com/browse.php?car=Porsche

Quote:

Originally Posted by the2doors

I'm not sure what formula you guys are using but those numbers are all wrong. You have to devide power by weight, then take the inverse. The lower the number the better. The Caymen S actually has the most HP per LBS.

Cayman S 10.09
135i 11.23
Cayman 11.76
335i 11.90

The chart uses Weight / Power
(Power / Weight ) ^ -1 == Weight / Power

Your numbers match the chart (aside from the previously mentioned Cayman typo)

gimme135 · 11-08-2007, 11:29 PM

I matched their two dyno charts (c/o Automobile and Porsche) by eyeball. :eyebulge: The twin-turbo's torque curve rises earlier and higher. The Porsche (245HP) engine has a slight dip but looks flatter. HP graph doesn't line up as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt

what color is on that 135i?

It was red before my convert-to-greyscale (to equalize the two cars).

BForbes · 11-09-2007, 10:11 AM

I shall go on record to say that, "the bmw 135i will bitch slap a cayman s in pure speed."

atr_hugo · 11-09-2007, 10:23 AM

Well - be prepared to be slapped back - the Cayman S has no speed governor - top speed of the S is around 170 mph. ; -)

BForbes · 11-09-2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

Well - be prepared to be slapped back - the Cayman S has no speed governor - top speed of the S is around 170 mph. ; -)

Fall back Hugo, haha. I mean in acceleration. Plus, I'm sure Dinan will gladly help me out.

atr_hugo · 11-09-2007, 11:23 AM

Yeah - I figured you'd take that out. ; -)

But I think at sea level - the Cayman S has some distinct advantages in getting to speed:

less weight
weight in the right spot (a 40/60 split - easier to launch)
equally under-reported power specs and conservative manufacturer 0-60 times

Once you get 1000' above sea level and or do simple tuning of the TT 3.0L, all bets are off. ; -)

Sephiroth · 11-09-2007, 08:33 PM

The Cayman S is the way to go. There are a couple F/I kits for it that make it very competitive with the 911, but they are $$$. You gotta pay to play.

~AJ · 11-09-2007, 08:51 PM

My mother (!) drives a Cayman S. I had no idea how sexy that car was until I stood next to it. It is low, sleek, and simply looks fast.

I don't think the 1 series is especially attractive. Unfortunately, the 135i has all the current styling trends: tall, boxy, bold, and a high hoodline. At least it doesn't have a giant grill and huge headlights. That said, my wife and I are likely to ED a 135i, boring styling and all.

Both cars are cool, and both are fast. The BMW will be cheaper to buy and own, while being more practical (rear seats, more interior ******* than the Porsche. Somebody else rightly said apples to oranges.

11-08-2007, 01:26 AM	#1
gimme135 Remember 37 Rep 115 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	135i vs. Cayman I might be a dunce when it comes to image. I'm starting to seriously consider the Cayman, while 12k more than the 135i, as a reasonable comparison. Maybe it's even more ultimate as a driving machine. The power-to-weight ratio of the 135i, though, keeps bringing me back. What strikes you most in comparing the two?
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11-08-2007, 03:11 AM	#2
1Power New Member 0 Rep 23 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	I considered a Cayman. Excellent ride. But after adding the very pricey options & factoring in the expensive maintenance costs & higher insurance, the Cayman costs are way, WAY higher than the 135. Plus, the 135 will have power similar to the Cayman S. Way faster than the Cayman.
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11-08-2007, 06:55 AM	#3
chackoc Registered 0 Rep 4 Posts Drives: Join Date: Sep 2007 iTrader: (0)	1Power's right about the price difference, but if you can accommodate that, you really owe it to yourself to test drive both. (Especially if you've never driven a mid-engined car before). The two offer completely different driving experiences and one is probably going to appeal to you much more than the other. Also stock for stock both Caymans offer slightly better pw ratios than the 335 (and the 135 assuming same engine output and 200 lbs lighter). Clearly the 135 engine has some big tuning potential though. Code: Model Year HP Curb Ratio Accel Top Speed CD MPG MSRP (USD) 335i Coupe 2007 300 3571 11.9 5.3 150 0.3 29/20 40800 135i Coupe 2007 300 3371 11.2 ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? Cayman 2007 245 2867 9.72 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A Cayman S 2007 295 2976 10.09 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A http://www.aspecpro.com/
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11-08-2007, 07:11 AM	#4
chackoc Registered 0 Rep 4 Posts Drives: Join Date: Sep 2007 iTrader: (0)	Incidentally, that last post was meant to be objective. The nonobjective side of me would have just posted this :biggrin: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi..._cayman_s.html
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11-08-2007, 07:29 AM	#5
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	The Cayman S is the standard which I'm judging the 135i on - I know the 135i won't touch the chassis dynamics of the Cayman but if it comes fairly close then the value of the 135i will be more than adequate to bridge the gap. You need to drive a Cayman - it is an excellent driver, one of the best around. The CG of the Cayman is lower than the 135i, more weight is inside the centerline of the axles - so it WILL rotate better. It's a great car but you'll spend over $65K to get a comparable amount of kit on the Cayman S as the 135i. The Scot in me tells me the 135i is a better value (and that and when I'm traveling the American west, do I want to park the Porsche in the lot of the Super 8 Motel in Cortez, CO? ; -). All things being equal - if Subaru made a mid-engined coupe with their 6 cylinder boxer motor - and they got the chassis dynamics right - I'd be in one of those immediately (even if I did have to wear a paper bag due to styling ; -).
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11-08-2007, 08:55 AM	#6
RU_FASTR New Member 0 Rep 24 Posts Drives: E90 330i & E90 335i Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio iTrader: (0)	Are we really comparing the 135i with a Cayman S? Just because they similar power to weight ratios doesn't mean a thing. They are two completely different cars, I can't imagine the 135i coming close to the Cayman S in driving dynamics. Seriously folks...have you driven a Cayman S?
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11-08-2007, 10:37 AM	#8
1Power New Member 0 Rep 23 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	I totally agree with the above-mentioned merits of the Cayman - particularly the Cayman S. If money was not a factor & practicality of a coupe was not an issue, I would definitely choose a Cayman S over the 135. I test-drove an S this summer & was hot for one - figuring what a great performance value it would be after the prevailing discount. However, after adding the options, the higher insurance & the high maintenance costs, it became a budget buster for me. The reason I initially replied to this post is because gimme135 seemed to say a Cayman was close in price to the 135 - only 12k more. IMO, the total cost difference is much larger than that. And that total cost difference does not allow a fair comparison. I'm a great admirer of the Cayman S, but I can't afford one for now. I'm hoping the 135 meets my expectations.
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11-08-2007, 10:46 AM	#9
imported_MPower Zoom Zoom 38 Rep 1,069 Posts Drives: 2022 M3 6MT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	Personally, I would much rather have the Boxster S rather than the Cayman S. The Cayman looks ungainly with that hatch. And, when you factor in the price of options, I tend to think that a 911 is a better buy. As for how it compares to the 135i, it all remains to be seen but what you will probably notice throughout all your comparisons is that the 135i has a distinct advantage in power but will probably not provide the feedback and crisp handling you may be looking for. Again, it all remains to be seen. __________________ In the garage: 2022 G80 M3 Manual - Portimao Blue
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11-08-2007, 01:24 PM	#11
matt Captain 61 Rep 613 Posts Drives: munichs finest Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Stuttgart iTrader: (0)	what color is on that 135i? __________________ f*ckin' love my car <3
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11-08-2007, 01:51 PM	#12
the2doors New Member 3 Rep 16 Posts Drives: Join Date: Oct 2007 iTrader: (0)	I'm not sure what formula you guys are using but those numbers are all wrong. You have to devide power by weight, then take the inverse. The lower the number the better. The Caymen S actually has the most HP per LBS. Cayman S 10.09 135i 11.23 Cayman 11.76 335i 11.90
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11-08-2007, 04:51 PM	#14
kurichan Mr. Happy 8 Rep 479 Posts Drives: Join Date: Aug 2007 iTrader: (0)	If you can afford the Cayman and you want a REAL sports car, there is no comparison. Cayman = light, very real sports car with nearly perfect handling 135i = piggy hopped up economy car in coupe guise with understeer Is there any comparison?
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11-09-2007, 10:11 AM	#17
BForbes Moderator 557 Rep 4,240 Posts Drives: BSM 135i/AW E90 M3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orlando, FL iTrader: (0)	I shall go on record to say that, "the bmw 135i will bitch slap a cayman s in pure speed." __________________ - 04 Honda S2000(gone)
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11-09-2007, 10:23 AM	#18
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Well - be prepared to be slapped back - the Cayman S has no speed governor - top speed of the S is around 170 mph. ; -)
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11-09-2007, 11:23 AM	#20
atr_hugo No longer moderate 325 Rep 4,401 Posts Drives: '13 135i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: - iTrader: (0)	Yeah - I figured you'd take that out. ; -) But I think at sea level - the Cayman S has some distinct advantages in getting to speed: less weight weight in the right spot (a 40/60 split - easier to launch) equally under-reported power specs and conservative manufacturer 0-60 times Once you get 1000' above sea level and or do simple tuning of the TT 3.0L, all bets are off. ; -)
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11-09-2007, 08:33 PM	#21
Sephiroth 4-6-8 234 Rep 990 Posts Drives: for the fun of it Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Jax, FL iTrader: (1)	The Cayman S is the way to go. There are a couple F/I kits for it that make it very competitive with the 911, but they are $$$. You gotta pay to play. __________________ M3 E46 PY/Black S2000 AP2 GPW/Tan
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11-09-2007, 08:51 PM	#22
~AJ Private First Class 3 Rep 184 Posts Drives: None Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: OC iTrader: (0)	My mother (!) drives a Cayman S. I had no idea how sexy that car was until I stood next to it. It is low, sleek, and simply looks fast. I don't think the 1 series is especially attractive. Unfortunately, the 135i has all the current styling trends: tall, boxy, bold, and a high hoodline. At least it doesn't have a giant grill and huge headlights. That said, my wife and I are likely to ED a 135i, boring styling and all. Both cars are cool, and both are fast. The BMW will be cheaper to buy and own, while being more practical (rear seats, more interior ******* than the Porsche. Somebody else rightly said apples to oranges.
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