[FCX5]

If Alfa Romeo can’t sell their current line up then there is no Hope…the Germans have won no matter what they make. Car buyers are just buying the badge. We’ll see…

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/busin...y-jd-power-win

JD Power’s Initial Quality report, released last week, contained a huge surprise. The top-quality luxury brand wasn’t frequent winner Lexus, a brand famous for ranking at the top of such surveys. This time it was Alfa Romeo, an Italian car with a reputation for excitement – but not necessarily trouble-free ownership.

[wtwo3]

Wonder how much Stallantis paid JD Power to get that high in the rankings.

[Redd]

I think it's just cos Alfa owners are more used to problems and just live with it. 🤣

P/S: I own an Alfa lol

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Wonder how much Stallantis paid JD Power to get that high in the rankings.

Probably the same as BMW or anyone else would pay them.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Redd

I think it's just cos Alfa owners are more used to problems and just live with it. 🤣

P/S: I own an Alfa lol

Yeah. That would apply to BMW owners I suppose as well since BMW’s initial quality score has also been going up and the company has taken credit for it. But I get your point. Alfa Romeo at this point just probably just give up since the Germans have just too much brand recognition and customers are buying brand over anything else. They can’t win.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Probably the same as BMW or anyone else would pay them.

The difference is BMW is getting higher on Consumer Reports lists as well, and CR doesn't engage in the same questionable activity that J.D. Power does.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by FCX5

That would apply to BMW owners I suppose as well since BMW’s initial quality score has also been going up and the company has taken credit for it.

I highly doubt new BMW owners would put up with issues without getting them resolved.

All I know for sure is my new F20 LCI 125i and 2020 G01 X3 (which I currently have) were both faultless from day one.

I’m only just starting my journey with my G81 M3T but the first 1000km were great. Will be at 3000km in the next two weeks.

[Germanauto]

I don't put much value into JD power "initial" quality but good press is good press.

Really special cars, but today's customers care about everything BUT the driving experience.

[///MPhatic]

"Initial quality" means nothing unless you only own a car for an initial period.

[c1pher]

Lol.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by MJBO

I highly doubt new BMW owners would put up with issues without getting them resolved.

All I know for sure is my new F20 LCI 125i and 2020 G01 X3 (which I currently have) were both faultless from day one.

I’m only just starting my journey with my G81 M3T but the first 1000km were great. Will be at 3000km in the next two weeks.

So you’re saying BMW quality is actually good, but Alfa is only fake good because their owners put up with faults and they improved because their owners don’t care anymore. I agree with Germanauto, consumers don’t care about driving experience. They are just buying luxury and status. BMW probably has realized this as well…

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The difference is BMW is getting higher on Consumer Reports lists as well, and CR doesn't engage in the same questionable activity that J.D. Power does.

There is only 1 German car in Consumer Reports most recent “most satisfying” cars.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by FCX5

There is only 1 German car in Consumer Reports most recent “most satisfying” cars.

Since we're talking about brands as opposed to individual car models...

Most recent CR "Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles" rankings based on cumulative road test, reliability and owner satisfaction scores:

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by FCX5

So you’re saying BMW quality is actually good, but Alfa is only fake good because their owners put up with faults and they improved because their owners don’t care anymore. I agree with Germanauto, consumers don’t care about driving experience. They are just buying luxury and status. BMW probably has realized this as well…

I made no comment about Alfa Romeo, as your quote of my post will note.

My comment was regarding new BMW owners, of which I am one, and the trouble-free experience I’ve had.

[allinon72]

If there was ever a "jump the shark" moment for an organization, I think this is it. They are either clueless internally or openly accepting bribes at this point.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Since we're talking about brands as opposed to individual car models...

Most recent CR "Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles" rankings based on cumulative road test, reliability and owner satisfaction scores:

Attachment 3218701

BTW, I agree with this assessment of CR since BMW is at the top of it’s game right now. However, that list other than BMW are companies focused on making practical rather than exciting autos.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by MJBO

I made no comment about Alfa Romeo, as your quote of my post will note.

My comment was regarding new BMW owners, of which I am one, and the trouble-free experience I’ve had.

They were bribed to show Alfa has improved. It ks not possible based on the experts here. LOL.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Lord Elpus

I wonder if the Alfa owners were polled in the 1st 24 hours of ownership?

Lmao

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Since we're talking about brands as opposed to individual car models...

Most recent CR "Which Car Brands Make the Best Vehicles" rankings based on cumulative road test, reliability and owner satisfaction scores:

Attachment 3218701

BMW does make the best all-around luxury cars in the business But I do know a lot of BMW owners, my parents included, and 0% of them care about the things us driving enthusiasts care about. M owners like you are a minuscule percentage of BMW's overall customer base. So just because CR reports high owner satisfaction, it really doesn't matter to me since the people they are polling value different things in a car than I do.

Solid cars...but only the M division stirs my soul at this point.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

BMW does make the best all-around luxury cars in the business But I do know a lot of BMW owners, my parents included, and 0% of them care about the things us driving enthusiasts care about. M owners like you are a minuscule percentage of BMW's overall customer base. So just because CR reports high owner satisfaction, it really doesn't matter to me since the people they are polling value different things in a car than I do.

Solid cars...but only the M division stirs my soul at this point.

Agreed... I was just making a point. J.D. Power is notorious for swaying rankings based on automaker influence over them. Consumer reports, while not perfect, is more reputable. As for "owner satisfaction", I agree that most of BMWs drivers aren't enthusiasts - that's why they've been chasing the luxury/tech categories for many of their cars. And that's the reason why they sell the most cars in the luxury class, beating out Mercedes (if you don't count the Mercedes Sprinter vans). It just so happens that in addition to the mundane but luxurious tech filled cruisers, BMW still makes 500hp manual transmission cars to stir the soul of us few remaining enthusiasts.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Agreed... I was just making a point. J.D. Power is notorious for swaying rankings based on automaker influence over them. Consumer reports, while not perfect, is more reputable. As for "owner satisfaction", I agree that most of BMWs drivers aren't enthusiasts - that's why they've been chasing the luxury/tech categories for many of their cars. And that's the reason why they sell the most cars in the luxury class, beating out Mercedes (if you don't count the Mercedes Sprinter vans). It just so happens that in addition to the mundane but luxurious tech filled cruisers, BMW still makes 500hp manual transmission cars to stir the soul of us few remaining enthusiasts.

Which is why it is a pity that someone like Alfa Romeo that only makes driver centric cars are written off by buyers. Initially it was quality and now it is the quality must be fake…it’s to sad to see they have no path since even enthusiasts are now locked into their brands.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Which is why it is a pity that someone like Alfa Romeo that only makes driver centric cars are written off by buyers. Initially it was quality and now it is the quality must be fake…it’s to sad to see they have no path since even enthusiasts are now locked into their brands.

I think from an enthusiast perspective they will still have their buyers. Unfortunately there's so few enthusiasts that if that's ALL you focus on, you won't do very well in this price range... The base Giulia and Stelvio are great cars, but outside of enthusiast focused, they're not very compelling over their competition. For what it's worth I myself considered a Giulia QF very strongly before deciding to go with an M3.

The reason for "the quality must be fake" rhetoric has more to do with J.D. Power's reputation, especially when you're talking about brands that typically ranked towards the bottom. If some of Stallantis' brands started rating higher on CR lists, this would probably be a different conversation.