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      06-03-2016, 10:47 AM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
There are substantial costs paid by taxpayers (who don't have a say in the matter):

- pro-choice - taxpayer money to Planned Parenthood, abortions in the military, etc.

- gay marriage - no apparent taxpayer costs

- legalization - I assume you mean of drugs? There are huge social costs here beyond incarceration mental health issues are off the charts, as are abuse, neglect, theft, murder, and many others.

- green energy - is largely subsidized by taxpayers. It's why you get a $7500 rebate on a Tesla, tax credits for solar panels, and other corporate welfare/subsidies for the rich

- environment - there are huge costs borne by the taxpayers - e.g. Ethanol/corn subsidies, EPA regulation costs, killing coal, etc.

- paying for drug treatment isn't a bad idea, but most drug criminals aren't in jail for possession - it's rarely prosecuted by itself, and even more rarely results in jail time. The ones prosecuted are dealing, or commit other crimes in conjunction with possession.

For these examples, I still think social liberal/fiscal conservative is an oxymoron.
A lot of this stuff is so hard to quantify since you have to take into account the opportunity cost of getting rid of all of those. For example, for abortions and tax payer expense on that, it'd likely cost tax payers more if these kids who will likely be born into poor families live off welfare for most (if not all) their lives.

Legalization of weed, any cost related to that would have to be put against the additional tax revenue you'd receive and so on.
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      06-03-2016, 05:20 PM   #530
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I don't like either one, but if someone put a gun to my head I would go with Bernie.

At least it seems Bernie genuinely believes he is doing what is morally correct. Hillary is just straight up out for her own self interest and will do anything to further her political career.
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      06-06-2016, 02:13 AM   #531
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i love bernie, take my hard earned money and give to those who don't want to work. #winning
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      06-07-2016, 11:04 PM   #532
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Bernie getting crushed right now in CA
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      06-07-2016, 11:46 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Bernie getting crushed right now in CA
Last I checked 13% of the districts were reporting, 62/36 in Clinton's favor. This should be interesting.
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      06-08-2016, 02:20 AM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beartato View Post
Last I checked 13% of the districts were reporting, 62/36 in Clinton's favor. This should be interesting.
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      06-08-2016, 05:51 AM   #535
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ABC
Anyone
But
Clinton
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      06-08-2016, 06:03 AM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
Why does it always have to be Republicans vs Democrats, Liberals vs Conservatives?
Because that is human nature. Humans throughout history have always separated themselves into smaller groups and engaged in tribal warfare. Politics is just human instinct manifesting itself in a different form.
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      06-08-2016, 06:05 AM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle B View Post
Because that is human nature. Humans throughout history have always separated themselves into smaller groups and engaged in tribal warfare. Politics is just another form of that.
If it was actual warfare right vs left fighting in the streets, my money is on the right. Lol. Too bad it doesn't work like that anymore.
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      06-08-2016, 06:39 PM   #538
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I see HRC as hanging by a thread in the upcoming months So much stuff pending.

OPINION
Obama’s Latest Attempt to Save Clinton From Indictment
POTUS delays critical email release to protect Entitled Establishment Darling
By Michael Sainato • 06/07/16 12:30pm

“I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department, or the FBI—not just in this case but in any case,” President Obama said in an interview with Fox News this past April. Despite his repeated claims of not influencing the Department of Justice and FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton‘s private email server scandal, Obama has helped shield her throughout the fiasco.

The White House has protected Clinton’s emails with the most potential to incriminate or impugn Clinton’s self-portrayed public image. In October 2015, the Obama Administration blocked the release of emails between Clinton (while she served as secretary of state) and the president, citing the need to keep such communications confidential. Recently, the Obama Administration also blocked the State Department’s release of emails from Clinton regarding the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership after it had promised to fulfill a Freedom of Information Act Request to IBTimes earlier this year. The request will now allegedly not be completed until after the general election in late November.

“The delay was issued in the same week the Obama administration filed a court motion to try to kill a lawsuit aimed at forcing the federal government to more quickly comply with open records requests for Clinton-era State Department documents,” reported David Sirota of IBTimes.

Hillary Clinton’s involvement with the Trans-Pacific Partnership is riddled with hypocrisy. As secretary of state, Clinton helped move TPP negotiations along. However, she avoided taking a position on TPP for the first few months of her 2016 presidential campaign—until Bernie Sanders’ staunch opposition to the deal forced Clinton to risk losing highly coveted endorsements from labor unions who strongly oppose it. Politifact rated Clinton’s switch as a full flip-flop.
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      06-08-2016, 08:29 PM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cays
I see HRC as hanging by a thread in the upcoming months So much stuff pending.

OPINION
Obama’s Latest Attempt to Save Clinton From Indictment
POTUS delays critical email release to protect Entitled Establishment Darling
By Michael Sainato • 06/07/16 12:30pm

“I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department, or the FBI—not just in this case but in any case,” President Obama said in an interview with Fox News this past April. Despite his repeated claims of not influencing the Department of Justice and FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton‘s private email server scandal, Obama has helped shield her throughout the fiasco.

The White House has protected Clinton’s emails with the most potential to incriminate or impugn Clinton’s self-portrayed public image. In October 2015, the Obama Administration blocked the release of emails between Clinton (while she served as secretary of state) and the president, citing the need to keep such communications confidential. Recently, the Obama Administration also blocked the State Department’s release of emails from Clinton regarding the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership after it had promised to fulfill a Freedom of Information Act Request to IBTimes earlier this year. The request will now allegedly not be completed until after the general election in late November.

“The delay was issued in the same week the Obama administration filed a court motion to try to kill a lawsuit aimed at forcing the federal government to more quickly comply with open records requests for Clinton-era State Department documents,” reported David Sirota of IBTimes.

Hillary Clinton’s involvement with the Trans-Pacific Partnership is riddled with hypocrisy. As secretary of state, Clinton helped move TPP negotiations along. However, she avoided taking a position on TPP for the first few months of her 2016 presidential campaign—until Bernie Sanders’ staunch opposition to the deal forced Clinton to risk losing highly coveted endorsements from labor unions who strongly oppose it. Politifact rated Clinton’s switch as a full flip-flop.
How can anyone vote for her in good conscience?
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      06-09-2016, 03:41 PM   #540
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CA voting behavior analysis shows that Bernie supporters didn't actually come out to vote.

So in other words, millennials, his biggest supports were:
Energetic
Vocal
Loved the free concerts Bernie put up
Loved the empty rhetoric and empty theory of anti-everything
Loved the empty concept of "revolution"
Couldn't be bothered to come out for 5 minutes on election day to vote
Couldn't be bothered to fill in the ballot and lick the envelope for mail-in ballots
Couldn't be bothered to register to vote
Too young to vote

So what have we learned kids?

(disclosure, I am the oldest possible "millennial", high school grad in year 2000)
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Last edited by Flying Ace; 06-09-2016 at 03:50 PM..
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      06-09-2016, 03:43 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony235 View Post
I don't like either one, but if someone put a gun to my head I would go with Bernie.

At least it seems Bernie genuinely believes he is doing what is morally correct. Hillary is just straight up out for her own self interest and will do anything to further her political career.
The path to hell is littered with good intentions......
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      06-09-2016, 03:46 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
ABC
Anyone
But
Clinton
I strongly disagree.......ABB
Anybody but Bernie

I would rather have a pragmatist who may lie occasionally than a leftist zealot.
Without the leftist establishment leaning on her, I could vote for Hillary. Alas.....
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      06-09-2016, 03:48 PM   #543
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Thought of this today which I thought was funny and has nothing to do with Dems or Republicans but with politics in general. When Hillary was going against Obama there was a fair amount of trash talking. So, he wins and hires her. Now, she wins and he endorses her and will campaign for her.
It's like in elementary school where the kid you always hated calls you names and you call him names then you go duke it out and after your best friends.
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      06-09-2016, 03:48 PM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRG_135 View Post
I strongly disagree.......ABB
Anybody but Bernie

I would rather have a pragmatist who may lie occasionally than a leftist zealot.
Without the leftest establishment leaning on her, I could vote for Hillary. Alas.....
I agree, it's the extremes of either sides that makes this country dysfunctional and combative.

The constitution and system of government was build on the concept of compromises. Compromises doesn't mean 50-50. Compromise means, whoever has leverage gets the most but relents some to the minority.

It's NOT minority rules. But progressives and tea party sees it as minority rules. Their way or the highway...
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      06-09-2016, 03:50 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoens View Post
Thought of this today which I thought was funny and has nothing to do with Dems or Republicans but with politics in general. When Hillary was going against Obama there was a fair amount of trash talking. So, he wins and hires her. Now, she wins and he endorses her and will campaign for her.
It's like in elementary school where the kid you always hated calls you names and you call him names then you go duke it out and after your best friends.
Politics in this country has always been, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. This is why any bill that gets past congress is laden with pork belly spending.
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      06-09-2016, 03:52 PM   #546
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Will she make it to November?

Pic from September 15'. Insider reports of migraines, insomnia and fainting spells. Does she get doped up before events?

Codes, what codes?
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      06-09-2016, 04:03 PM   #547
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She's got a granny stache going like my granny Ruby.
Good ol' Ruby, I miss her.
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      06-09-2016, 04:26 PM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Politics in this country has always been, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. This is why any bill that gets past congress is laden with pork belly spending.
Yeah, I know...it's depends where you stand at the moment. But, it makes all the name calling and accusations sort of meaningless. Who knows, Hillary might win and then hire Trump as an economic advisor...nothing is far-fetched anymore.
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      06-10-2016, 09:56 AM   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VRG_135 View Post
The path to hell is littered with good intentions......
Yes, but with Hillary there are no good intentions unless they are self serving. Again I'm not a fan of either.
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      06-10-2016, 11:15 AM   #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RABAUKE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheonix View Post
This is a really hard one for me
Hillary- maybe she will teach us how to make millions giving speeches.
Bernie- everything will be FREE! I am tired of working my ass off and giving almost half of my income to the government.
You guys have it easy, come north and see what it's liked to pay our taxes. You don't even get the courtesy of a god damn reach around.
I was recently in Canada. Was expecting things to be pretty reasonable, as the exchange rate is like
$.75Cdn to the $USD. I was amazed at not only the tax burden (15% sales tax/VAT, plus all sorts of tourist taxes), but also at the price of food and services. Not sure if wages are correspondingly higher, but let's hope so- if not, I feel sorry for working-class Canadians.
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