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      02-11-2020, 03:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
The Mom's and Dad's driving these Lexus' couldn't care less about drivetrain layouts or whether the car rides on the same platform as the Toyota Camry. All that matters is that lexus reliability and service is top notch, and that the RX is a comfortable car that satisfies their needs of transporting themselves and their family with ease and having a peace of mind ownership experience. Those who care about drivetrains and sporty handling know to avoid Japanese luxury cars (except for a few standouts over the years, like the G37, G70, IS, etc.)

The RX succeeds in its mission which is completely different to that of the BMW's or others.
Exactly.

Also, the Lexus dealership experience is extremely good. Genesis needs a proper dealer network for sales and service before their sales figures are going to start putting fear into any of the big luxury players.
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      02-11-2020, 03:41 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
The Mom's and Dad's driving these Lexus' couldn't care less about drivetrain layouts or whether the car rides on the same platform as the Toyota Camry. All that matters is that lexus reliability and service is top notch, and that the RX is a comfortable car that satisfies their needs of transporting themselves and their family with ease and having a peace of mind ownership experience. Those who care about drivetrains and sporty handling know to avoid Japanese luxury cars (except for a few standouts over the years, like the G37, G70, IS, etc.)

The RX succeeds in its mission which is completely different to that of the BMW's or others.
Exactly.

Also, the Lexus dealership experience is extremely good. Genesis needs a proper dealer network for sales and service before their sales figures are going to start putting fear into any of the big luxury players.
Who are these people going to the dealership? I tend to try to even get my paperwork done electronically and just drop in to pick up the keys and then that's the last I see of the dealer. It could be a kiosk in a mall for all I care.
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      02-11-2020, 03:51 PM   #25
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Who are these people going to the dealership? I tend to try to even get my paperwork done electronically and just drop in to pick up the keys and then that's the last I see of the dealer. It could be a kiosk in a mall for all I care.
You're definitely in the minority (for now at least). There are still a ton of shoppers who want a brick and mortar dealership that they can speak with the sales people, sit in the vehicles, test drive, etc. Same with service. Don't you want to bring your car in to a physical location for service? I certainly do. I like explaining issues, speaking with the service staff to understand what's being done, etc.
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      02-11-2020, 03:52 PM   #26
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Who are these people going to the dealership? I tend to try to even get my paperwork done electronically and just drop in to pick up the keys and then that's the last I see of the dealer. It could be a kiosk in a mall for all I care.
You're definitely in the minority (for now at least). There are still a ton of shoppers who want a brick and mortar dealership that they can speak with the sales people, sit in the vehicles, test drive, etc. Same with service. Don't you want to bring your car in to a physical location for service? I certainly do. I like explaining issues, speaking with the service staff to understand what's being done, etc.
Nope. I'd rather take it to a mechanic, not a kid with a shop manual. The only time I go back to the dealer is for recalls or warranty work.

And I know more than any sales guy. Just five minutes on here qualifies you for that.

I also don't like test driving green cars. You're either thrashing someone else's next car or babying something that won't ever be driven that way. I'd much rather go to CarMax and scare their poor sales people.

In my experience, very few dealers want to do the maintenance in the manual. They want to do about 3.6x that level of work and replace every filter at every visit. A good mechanic will do what's in the book and advise of any potential problems, not rebuild the car annually just to try to milk the unsuspecting.
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      02-11-2020, 03:58 PM   #27
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Who are these people going to the dealership? I tend to try to even get my paperwork done electronically and just drop in to pick up the keys and then that's the last I see of the dealer. It could be a kiosk in a mall for all I care.

Nope. I'd rather take it to a mechanic, not a kid with a shop manual. The only time I go back to the dealer is for recalls or warranty work.

And I know more than any sales guy. Just five minutes on here qualifies you for that.
I'm with you on this one. I use dealers for test drives, but that's about it. They are shady and love to waste your time, I've walked on MANY deals from dealers, and I've always gotten a call back. I did all the negotiating and paperwork on my M2 before ever seeing the car, then I hopped on a plane, dealer picked me up, did paperwork, and left. This is how it should be. They did make me wait over an hour for the "manager" to be free, but she was just sitting in her office alone, so idk what that was about.

As for the work on the vehicle, if it's warranty work, then the dealer will handle it. Everything else I try to do myself, and if I can't, I know someone who can. Don't want to pay dealer rates for some dumb kid with tools to half-ass the job. I have WAY too many friends that work at dealerships, so I've heard their stories... No thank you.
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      02-11-2020, 04:00 PM   #28
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Who are these people going to the dealership? I tend to try to even get my paperwork done electronically and just drop in to pick up the keys and then that's the last I see of the dealer. It could be a kiosk in a mall for all I care.

Nope. I'd rather take it to a mechanic, not a kid with a shop manual. The only time I go back to the dealer is for recalls or warranty work.

And I know more than any sales guy. Just five minutes on here qualifies you for that.
I'm with you on this one. I use dealers for test drives, but that's about it. They are shady and love to waste your time, I've walked on MANY deals from dealers, and I've always gotten a call back. I did all the negotiating and paperwork on my M2 before ever seeing the car, then I hopped on a plane, dealer picked me up, did paperwork, and left. This is how it should be. They did make me wait over an hour for the "manager" to be free, but she was just sitting in her office alone, so idk what that was about.

As for the work on the vehicle, if it's warranty work, then the dealer will handle it. Everything else I try to do myself, and I can't, I know someone who can. Don't want to pay dealer rates, for some dumb kid with tools to half-ass the job. I have WAY too many friends that work at dealerships, so I've heard their stories... No thank you.
Haha, maybe that's it. I've got lots of friends that have worked at dealers. Maybe the folks that happily go there just don't have those friends.
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      02-11-2020, 04:05 PM   #29
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Again we're a bunch of enthusiasts on a car forum lol the average person just wants to talk to some sales person about features, cost, etc. and then hand the car back for service per the service intervals.

They just want someone to take care of it. Drop the car at the dealership, pick up a loaner, and move on with their day.
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      02-11-2020, 04:06 PM   #30
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I guess I also just think of a really expensive dealer showroom as the same thing as going to a restaurant where the owners McLaren us parked in front. It's just confirmation that I'm overpaying.
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      02-11-2020, 04:08 PM   #31
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Again we're a bunch of enthusiasts on a car forum lol the average person just wants to talk to some sales person about features, cost, etc. and then hand the car back for service per the service intervals.

They just want someone to take care of it. Drop the car at the dealership, pick up a loaner, and move on with their day.
Nothing in that statement isn't done as well or better by independent shops. And most non enthusiasts buy the only car on their list without a test drive.

Frankly, this is one reason that Tesla and their model appeals to me. Just take the dealership and the slimy sales approach, inventory and the rest out of the game entirely. Seeing the money spent on lawyers and marketing in Texas to oppose them is just further proof that the consumer is on the wrong end of this relationship. Screw dealers.
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      02-11-2020, 05:48 PM   #32
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Nothing in that statement isn't done as well or better by independent shops. And most non enthusiasts buy the only car on their list without a test drive.

Frankly, this is one reason that Tesla and their model appeals to me. Just take the dealership and the slimy sales approach, inventory and the rest out of the game entirely. Seeing the money spent on lawyers and marketing in Texas to oppose them is just further proof that the consumer is on the wrong end of this relationship. Screw dealers.
I'm not saying that an independent shop isn't better than a dealership (quite the opposite). However, most average drivers don't know any better, so especially during the warranty period, will bring their cars to the dealership not independent shops.

There's a reason dealerships still make shit tons of money.
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      02-11-2020, 07:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Nothing in that statement isn't done as well or better by independent shops. And most non enthusiasts buy the only car on their list without a test drive.

Frankly, this is one reason that Tesla and their model appeals to me. Just take the dealership and the slimy sales approach, inventory and the rest out of the game entirely. Seeing the money spent on lawyers and marketing in Texas to oppose them is just further proof that the consumer is on the wrong end of this relationship. Screw dealers.
I'm not saying that an independent shop isn't better than a dealership (quite the opposite). However, most average drivers don't know any better, so especially during the warranty period, will bring their cars to the dealership not independent shops.

There's a reason dealerships still make shit tons of money.
I know. I'm just saying that I've personally never understood the whole 'I bought a Lexus because they have nice dealerships' thing. I mean, cumulatively, for the time you own a car, what do you spend in the dealer? Three hours? Seems odd to make a $50k decision based on three hours of exposure to something, rather than if the actual car is any good.
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      02-11-2020, 07:25 PM   #34
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I know. I'm just saying that I've personally never understood the whole 'I bought a Lexus because they have nice dealerships' thing. I mean, cumulatively, for the time you own a car, what do you spend in the dealer? Three hours? Seems odd to make a $50k decision based on three hours of exposure to something, rather than if the actual car is any good.
You don't see the allure, I don't see the allure, but there are a lot of people that do. They want to feel like they got what they paid for when it comes to the dealership experience. Something different from going to a Toyota dealership...some have appetizers, lattes, even meditation rooms are starting to pop up! Generally speaking, the majority of people are pretty shallow and this is the kind of crap that makes them feel important.

For every one of you or I, there are ten completely oblivious to the automotive world outside of dealerships.
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      02-11-2020, 07:39 PM   #35
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I know. I'm just saying that I've personally never understood the whole 'I bought a Lexus because they have nice dealerships' thing. I mean, cumulatively, for the time you own a car, what do you spend in the dealer? Three hours? Seems odd to make a $50k decision based on three hours of exposure to something, rather than if the actual car is any good.
You don't see the allure, I don't see the allure, but there are a lot of people that do. They want to feel like they got what they paid for when it comes to the dealership experience. Something different from going to a Toyota dealership...some have appetizers, lattes, even meditation rooms are starting to pop up! Generally speaking, the majority of people are pretty shallow and this is the kind of crap that makes them feel important.

For every one of you or I, there are ten completely oblivious to the automotive world outside of dealerships.
Yea there is something to be said for that. While agree that overall very little time is spent at the dealership it can still leave a lasting impression. I have been driving bmws for years and all of the bmw dealerships around here are new and beautifully manicured with a very upscale service area. Also, the other patrons tend to look more upperclass. A much higher end experience compared to the gmc dealer I take my wife's car to which is somewhat run down and generally filled with people of a lower socioeconomic status.

So while not super important I can see how the overall dealership experience plays into it. It reaffirms the notion of buying a premium vehicle by providing a premium environment.
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      02-11-2020, 07:44 PM   #36
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Nope. I'd rather take it to a mechanic, not a kid with a shop manual. The only time I go back to the dealer is for recalls or warranty work.
I have never, in over 40 years of car ownership, had a "kid with a shop manual" at a dealership. But I have had plenty of screwed up "mechanics" at independents.

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And I know more than any sales guy. Just five minutes on here qualifies you for that.
I bought my first BMW in January of 2019. I did a tone of research online, but my salesman was an expert on BMWs and educated me well.

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I also don't like test driving green cars. You're either thrashing someone else's next car or babying something that won't ever be driven that way. I'd much rather go to CarMax and scare their poor sales people.
So those are the only two options?

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In my experience, very few dealers want to do the maintenance in the manual. They want to do about 3.6x that level of work and replace every filter at every visit. A good mechanic will do what's in the book and advise of any potential problems, not rebuild the car annually just to try to milk the unsuspecting.
In your first paragraph you wrote that a "manual" being used is negative. A little in-congruent, isn't that?
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      02-11-2020, 08:41 PM   #37
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Nope. I'd rather take it to a mechanic, not a kid with a shop manual. The only time I go back to the dealer is for recalls or warranty work.
I have never, in over 40 years of car ownership, had a "kid with a shop manual" at a dealership. But I have had plenty of screwed up "mechanics" at independents.

Quote:
And I know more than any sales guy. Just five minutes on here qualifies you for that.
I bought my first BMW in January of 2019. I did a tone of research online, but my salesman was an expert on BMWs and educated me well.

Quote:
I also don't like test driving green cars. You're either thrashing someone else's next car or babying something that won't ever be driven that way. I'd much rather go to CarMax and scare their poor sales people.
So those are the only two options?

Quote:
In my experience, very few dealers want to do the maintenance in the manual. They want to do about 3.6x that level of work and replace every filter at every visit. A good mechanic will do what's in the book and advise of any potential problems, not rebuild the car annually just to try to milk the unsuspecting.
In your first paragraph you wrote that a "manual" being used is negative. A little in-congruent, isn't that?
Do you work at a dealer?

There's a manual for recommended service and then there's a manual for doing any repair that you choose, regardless of if it's needed. Same word, different context.

And yeah, being able to drive a car the way you will drive it when you own it isn't really feasible with a new car. I'm just not going to redline a car or hammer the brakes when it's new. That's not the dealers fault, it's just a "service" that people cite that doesn't actually provide any value to me.
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      02-11-2020, 09:10 PM   #38
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The Hyundai dealership experience was pretty bad. Nice enough sales guy and good test drive that my wife got a thorough drive in. I did get a bag of popcorn
I think Genesis should really get away from the Hyundai dealership network or somehow get segregation from that experience. It can no way be recognized as luxury (my local Lexus dealership is insanely attentive and has all kinds of stuff there, and Audi dealership is also on spec, both of those better even than my bmw dealership).
Funny, I ended up with the Hyundai, worst dealership experience but I (we) liked the vehicle the most. So I kind of agree the dealership thing is only for test driving. I could have done the rest of the deal online and been happier. B to B sucks when no deal to be had, well I did get some weathertechs thrown in, so I guess thatís something for my 3 hrs time on a Saturday.
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      02-12-2020, 06:38 AM   #39
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I know this thread is about the Palisade and it still falls under the Hyundai umbrella but the Genesis brand (at least in Canada) has a selling point of not having a physical dealer at all. Technically it still is at select Hyundai dealerships but the customer doesn't need to be involved anymore. Their drivers pick up your car for service (oil change, brakes, etc.) and drops off a loaner if necessary. That's their smarter way of being luxury instead of spending millions on a pretty dealership building.
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      02-12-2020, 07:28 AM   #40
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I know this thread is about the Palisade and it still falls under the Hyundai umbrella but the Genesis brand (at least in Canada) has a selling point of not having a physical dealer at all. Technically it still is at select Hyundai dealerships but the customer doesn't need to be involved anymore. Their drivers pick up your car for service (oil change, brakes, etc.) and drops off a loaner if necessary. That's their smarter way of being luxury instead of spending millions on a pretty dealership building.
They offer a complimentary valet service here in the US for the first 3/36 of the car, however in Canada I believe they take this a step further and bring the car to you for test drives/purchasing as well.
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      02-12-2020, 08:33 AM   #41
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I know. I'm just saying that I've personally never understood the whole 'I bought a Lexus because they have nice dealerships' thing. I mean, cumulatively, for the time you own a car, what do you spend in the dealer? Three hours? Seems odd to make a $50k decision based on three hours of exposure to something, rather than if the actual car is any good.
This whole discussion is very interesting. Being from Australia, I find a few things about north american (well US/Canada) car buyers that really irks me. The first is this whole dealer thing, like it's SO IMPORTANT to have dealer support. I basically stole my Saab that I still drive today because people were freaked out that there were no dealers. I don't get the mentality.

The other one is buying and selling private, most people seem to treat it like it's a no-go zone. No idea why folks are so conservative.
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      02-12-2020, 08:43 AM   #42
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Thinly related, but one of the most interesting things from our BMW Welt tour last year was when I asked about the difference between how many people over there custom order their car versus here.

Over there it is roughly 95% that custom order, versus roughly 95% here buy off the lot.
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      02-12-2020, 09:02 AM   #43
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      02-12-2020, 11:12 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
This whole discussion is very interesting. Being from Australia, I find a few things about north american (well US/Canada) car buyers that really irks me. The first is this whole dealer thing, like it's SO IMPORTANT to have dealer support. I basically stole my Saab that I still drive today because people were freaked out that there were no dealers. I don't get the mentality.

The other one is buying and selling private, most people seem to treat it like it's a no-go zone. No idea why folks are so conservative.
Dealer support can be helpful. My prior BMW had constant CELs and eventually I was ready to invoke the Lemon Law in my state. But right before I did it, the Service Manager stepped in and convinced BMW to buy the car back. So it can be helpful (BTW...once BMW agreed to buy back the car BMW was terrific).

I think the selling private thing is a combination of being too busy to deal with it and fear of a bunch of strangers coming over, asking to drive the car, etc.
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