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      01-05-2017, 04:23 PM   #1
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Why is Trump defending Russia?

Honest question. Are there any clues out there or facts that could reveal motivation? I don't really see any news stories on why Trump is defending Russia only that he is.

I don't believe Russia is our arch-enemy or sworn rival. I also don't think we're best friends. My take is that the US and Russia are egotistical rivals at best.

The Russia election hacking thing is SO political, I get that. We didn't say something because X, then we said something because Y, all the agencies disagree there was hacking, then they all agree there is hacking, etc. Who is calling the shots, etc.

But I don't really see why Trump feels the need to challenge the CIA and FBI on this with no evidence what so ever. Further, he intentionally praises Russia, calling Putin "a smart man".

Forget the hacking itself. Why is Trump standing up for Russia even at the cost of dividing our internal politics? Am I the only one that thinks this is bizarre? There must be some sort of "logical to Trump" thinking here...

Oddly enough Russia's response to Obama's grand chastisement was uncharacteristically muted. They basically said, we'll wait for the next administration to hammer things out.

What's going on here?
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      01-05-2017, 04:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
Honest question. Are there any clues out there or facts that could reveal motivation? I don't really see any news stories on why Trump is defending Russia only that he is.

I don't believe Russia is our arch-enemy or sworn rival. I also don't think we're best friends. My take is that the US and Russia are egotistical rivals at best.

The Russia election hacking thing is SO political, I get that. We didn't say something because X, then we said something because Y, all the agencies disagree there was hacking, then they all agree there is hacking, etc. Who is calling the shots, etc.

But I don't really see why Trump feels the need to challenge the CIA and FBI on this with no evidence what so ever. Further, he intentionally praises Russia, calling Putin "a smart man".

Forget the hacking itself. Why is Trump standing up for Russia even at the cost of dividing our internal politics? Am I the only one that thinks this is bizarre? There must be some sort of "logical to Trump" thinking here...

Oddly enough Russia's response to Obama's grand chastisement was uncharacteristically muted. They basically said, we'll wait for the next administration to hammer things out.

What's going on here?
He publicly mocks the US intelligence community over the issue,

For some reason I can't get his Tweet to link here so just go to twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/816452807024840704 and precede it with "https://"

I think he just wants to distance himself from everything and just have it go away. My only guess is if he even suggested that maybe they did, or attempted to do, some sketchy manipulation via either spreading propaganda that wasn't true and/or hacking the DNC, the Democrats would then use that to say "oh Russia caused Trump to win" and it'd become a political shitshow that'd be a distraction for Trump and his team.

That's the best I can think of, doesn't seem like a bad theory. Do I think Trump is with the Russians or any other stupid conspiracy theory like that? No I don't think so. I just wonder why the Russians did spread fake news propaganda (that we know of, but that's perfectly legal unlike the hacking accusations) that was so pro-Trump.

Why would they rather him win vs. Hillary? Is it because they think he'd allow for more drilling in the arctic which Russia desperately needs for their economy?
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      01-05-2017, 04:55 PM   #3
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What evidence do we have?

Sen. Reed: Do Russians Have Plausible Deniability?; Clapper: "I'd Rather Not Get Into That"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...il_132708.html

It's a circus side show. Wagging. Blaming. Covering. Pick your own descriptive. What has he ACTUALLY done that is so wrong. Our intelligence community is not exactly earning those sticky gold star awards lately.
Missed this, missed that. Didn't see that coming. Oops, we're sorry. He did it! She did it! The dog did it!
Reports of cluster f fighting within the FBI and CIA. CentCom getting reports sent back because the administration doesn't like their intel content and wants them modified. NSA...search away.



Trump never praised Putin. Smart man does not equal praise unless you fidget with the two words long enough.
Would Putin is a Pos help anything?
He has actually amazed me a bit as to how he seems to make these moves that work out, when initially they seem absurd.
He's a bucaneer. For better or worse? About to find out.
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      01-05-2017, 05:00 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
I think he just wants to distance himself from everything and just have it go away. My only guess is if he even suggested that maybe they did, or attempted to do, some sketchy manipulation via either spreading propaganda that wasn't true and/or hacking the DNC, the Democrats would then use that to say "oh Russia caused Trump to win" and it'd become a political shitshow that'd be a distraction for Trump and his team.
Agreed.

Quote:
I just wonder why the Russians did spread fake news propaganda (that we know of, but that's perfectly legal unlike the hacking accusations) that was so pro-Trump.

Why would they rather him win vs. Hillary? ?
I thought one theory floating around was the Russians.....like most...thought HRC was going to win. And the Russians used DNC hacked published emails to make HRC appear very weak and out of touch and have a potentially strained 4 years.
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      01-05-2017, 05:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
It's a circus side show. Wagging. Blaming. Covering. Pick your own descriptive. What has he ACTUALLY done that is so wrong. Our intelligence community is not exactly earning those sticky gold stars awards lately.
Missed this, missed that. Didn't see that coming. Oops, we're sorry. He did it! She did it! The dog did it!
Reports of cluster f fighting within the FBI and CIA. CentCom getting reports back because the administration doesn't like their intel content and wants them modified. NSA...search away.
+1!
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      01-05-2017, 05:03 PM   #6
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Perhaps it just did not happen. The more it looks the more people cannot accept they had the entirely wrong candidate for their side and they need someone to blame. So let's wheel out the dinosaurs with chips on their shoulders for over 60 years to return to the past and see if it works again.
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      01-05-2017, 05:15 PM   #7
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I don't understand the love of Putin/Russia or why he says the negative things he says about our intelligence groups. Yes they have been wrong in the past, that comes with the territory but unless he has some reason to believe they are wrong this time he has to have some trust in them otherwise they are pointless.

I thought one of the oddest tweets from Trump -
Quote:
Julian Assange said "a 14 year old could have hacked Podesta" - why was DNC so careless? Also said Russians did not give him the info!
CIA says Russians were behind it and Wikileaks founder says he didn't get the information directly from the Russians (not the same as saying they weren't involved). Since when should he be counted as a reliable witness?

This also doesn't sound like someone that thinks it could be the Russian's - Trump
Quote:
The "Intelligence" briefing on so-called "Russian hacking" was delayed until Friday, perhaps more time needed to build a case. Very strange!


Quote:
He also said that he had “zero” doubt that Russia was behind the hacking, CBS News’ Alan He reports. Graham added that Russia is not only hacking here, but “they are doing it all over the world.”

Mr. Trump, Graham said, hasn’t been briefed on the Russian hacking report yet, and he offered the president-elect some unsolicited advice -- “don’t question things until you’ve been informed of them. Then question them.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-tw...ulian-assange/
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      01-05-2017, 05:18 PM   #8
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Because russia is being falsely accuse of everything to cover up the fact they are kicking isis butt the group we are arming, financing, ans backing in the region.

Trump also doesnt want ww3 to start because of obama hissy fit
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      01-05-2017, 05:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jaghave View Post
Because russia is being falsely accuse of everything to cover up the fact they are kicking isis butt the group we are arming, financing, ans backing in the region.

Trump also doesnt want ww3 to start because of obama hissy fit
How did you and Trump figure out they are being falsely accused?

So if it is true and they were doing it we should just sit down and shut up because we don't want to upset them? Best I can tell many Republicans and the CIA are running this show right now and I haven't heard much from Obama.
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      01-05-2017, 05:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imserious View Post
Honest question. Are there any clues out there or facts that could reveal motivation? I don't really see any news stories on why Trump is defending Russia only that he is.

I don't believe Russia is our arch-enemy or sworn rival. I also don't think we're best friends. My take is that the US and Russia are egotistical rivals at best.

The Russia election hacking thing is SO political, I get that. We didn't say something because X, then we said something because Y, all the agencies disagree there was hacking, then they all agree there is hacking, etc. Who is calling the shots, etc.

But I don't really see why Trump feels the need to challenge the CIA and FBI on this with no evidence what so ever. Further, he intentionally praises Russia, calling Putin "a smart man".

Forget the hacking itself. Why is Trump standing up for Russia even at the cost of dividing our internal politics? Am I the only one that thinks this is bizarre? There must be some sort of "logical to Trump" thinking here...

Oddly enough Russia's response to Obama's grand chastisement was uncharacteristically muted. They basically said, we'll wait for the next administration to hammer things out.

What's going on here?
The old saying "all politics is local" applies now as it basicly always does.

When you look at things from his perspective it all makes sense.

His and his supporters goal is not national unity or anything like that.

They believe in divide and conquer and that is what they have been doing masterfully. They've even gotten other smaller disenfranchised groups to turn on one another.

Russia is simply not a factor in their local politics right now. Subjugating all of these agencies/groups that oppose him/them very much is.

He will make them yield. There is a good reason why every single person being put into position of power is being placed on the basis of loyalty first and formost. There's nothing complicated or hidden in what he is doing.

This doesn't have anything to do with party affiliation.

Divide and conquer. Consolidate power. Then the real fun will come. Pretty much standard procedure for personal success. Our national narrative has for all its history rejected this on the national stage, this is why it stands out to you so much as being strange. This type of thing is not strange in other countries now and in history.

Not looking forward to what happens when power is consolidated and the real fun begins. Ugh.
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      01-05-2017, 05:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
The old saying "all politics is local" applies now as it basicly always does.

When you look at things from his perspective it all makes sense.

His and his supporters goal is not national unity or anything like that.

They believe in divide and conquer and that is what they have been doing masterfully. They've even gotten other smaller disenfranchised groups to turn on one another.

Russia is simply not a factor in their local politics right now. Subjugating all of these agencies/groups that oppose him/them very much is.

He will make them yield. There is a good reason why every single person being put into position of power is being placed on the basis of loyalty first and formost. There's nothing complicated or hidden in what he is doing.

This doesn't have anything to do with party affiliation.

Divide and conquer. Consolidate power. Then the real fun will come. Pretty much standard procedure for personal success. Our national narrative has for all its history rejected this on the national stage, this is why it stands out to you so much as being strange. This type of thing is not strange in other countries now and in history.

Not looking forward to what happens when power is consolidated and the real fun begins. Ugh.
I sense Godwin's law being achieved here soon.
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      01-05-2017, 05:50 PM   #12
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^ Broad brush on a guy that hasn't sat at his new desk yet.
Shouldn't you wait at least a year c63?
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      01-05-2017, 05:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by GirthBrooks View Post
I sense Godwin's law being achieved here soon.
Just warmin' up mah memes.

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      01-05-2017, 05:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Beartato View Post
Just warmin' up mah memes.

Mmm. Prime.
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      01-05-2017, 06:00 PM   #15
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I think whoever did the hacking deserves a medal for revealing the collusion between mainstream media and the democrat party.
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      01-05-2017, 06:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirthBrooks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
The old saying "all politics is local" applies now as it basicly always does.

When you look at things from his perspective it all makes sense.

His and his supporters goal is not national unity or anything like that.

They believe in divide and conquer and that is what they have been doing masterfully. They've even gotten other smaller disenfranchised groups to turn on one another.

Russia is simply not a factor in their local politics right now. Subjugating all of these agencies/groups that oppose him/them very much is.

He will make them yield. There is a good reason why every single person being put into position of power is being placed on the basis of loyalty first and formost. There's nothing complicated or hidden in what he is doing.

This doesn't have anything to do with party affiliation.

Divide and conquer. Consolidate power. Then the real fun will come. Pretty much standard procedure for personal success. Our national narrative has for all its history rejected this on the national stage, this is why it stands out to you so much as being strange. This type of thing is not strange in other countries now and in history.

Not looking forward to what happens when power is consolidated and the real fun begins. Ugh.
I sense Godwin's law being achieved here soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
^ Broad brush on a guy that hasn't sat at his new desk yet.
Shouldn't you wait at least a year c63?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beartato View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirthBrooks View Post
I sense Godwin's law being achieved here soon.
Just warmin' up mah memes.

[img]
View post on imgur.com
[/img]
Ignoring whatever you think of me and my opinions but are unable to put into words other then some stupid meme and fake "law" i don't see how anyone can disagree with what I said, weather you support or oppose him.

If you were in his shoes and all these agencies were trying to debase your victory and make you look foolish wouldn't your first course of action be to put them in their place ? Or do you think he's a secret agent.

What he is doing is quite obvious to anyone who uses their brain atleast once a day ( was that mean ? )
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      01-05-2017, 06:41 PM   #17
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He's defending them because he's blowing Putin
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      01-05-2017, 06:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
How did you and Trump figure out they are being falsely accused?

So if it is true and they were doing it we should just sit down and shut up because we don't want to upset them? Best I can tell many Republicans and the CIA are running this show right now and I haven't heard much from Obama.
Because they have failed to provide any evidence, kept pushing proof date back, and what little evidence the media has made up has been debunked

Now who we know what hacking our elections was homeland security

Finally ill trust wikileaks who been accurate for 10 years over cia who has a record of disinformation and arming and installing enemies of the united states
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      01-05-2017, 07:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
I think he just wants to distance himself from everything and just have it go away. My only guess is if he even suggested that maybe they did, or attempted to do, some sketchy manipulation via either spreading propaganda that wasn't true and/or hacking the DNC, the Democrats would then use that to say "oh Russia caused Trump to win" and it'd become a political shitshow that'd be a distraction for Trump and his team.
This makes sense to me as a reason to deny that the Russians hacked the DNC and give credence to de-legitimizing his win. However, Trump seems to go past denial and appears to really be pro-Putin.

Seriously, I think it might be bromance level. I think these guys look at each other across the pond and think - "I get this guy. And you know what? He gets me, too." I don't think I'm way off!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
What evidence do we have?
He has actually amazed me a bit as to how he seems to make these moves that work out, when initially they seem absurd.
He's a bucaneer. For better or worse? About to find out.
100% agree. I can't wait for Donald's next book explaining how he did it and how you can, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
Divide and conquer. Consolidate power. Then the real fun will come. Pretty much standard procedure for personal success. Our national narrative has for all its history rejected this on the national stage, this is why it stands out to you so much as being strange. This type of thing is not strange in other countries now and in history.

Not looking forward to what happens when power is consolidated and the real fun begins. Ugh.
I agree with you here. I think Donald is ultimately, pro-Donald. I'm not a staunch Donald hater, but what you see him doing is basically what dictators do. Loyalty above all else. If you're not with me, you get character assassinated or worse. Maybe he'll be a good dictator? We'll see.
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      01-05-2017, 07:12 PM   #20
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Any half decent hackers around the world don't work for any government, Russia or USA. Why? They don't pay enough! They can go solo or work with underground groups and make 100X and live like filthy pigs reporting to nobody but themselves. Or work in a cubicle 9-6 for middle class salary just monitoring network botnets for the government politician to point fingers, boring. The NSA in the 80's was the last time the US gov had smart people working for them, since then the talent shifted to the private sector who pays much more for nerds.
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      01-05-2017, 07:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
How did you and Trump figure out they are being falsely accused?

So if it is true and they were doing it we should just sit down and shut up because we don't want to upset them? Best I can tell many Republicans and the CIA are running this show right now and I haven't heard much from Obama.
As it stands today no actual evidence has been publicly presented to make attribution for the "Hacks" of the DNC, Clinton's server, Podesta etc.

Futhermore there's no evidence that even IF some russian entities compromised the above that they took information let alone DISCLOSED that information.

The only person "Running the show" is Oblunder who's kicked a pile of russians out of the US and sent a bunch of US troops into eastern european countries in a rather provoocative move that accomplished exactly nothing but undermine the incoming administration

Obama's reaction is pure politics...so far Trump appears to be the only one acting like an adult and NOT jumping to conclusions.
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      01-05-2017, 07:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F82K2S0 View Post
Any half decent hackers around the world don't work for any government, Russia or USA. Why? They don't pay enough! They can go solo or work with underground groups and make 100X and live like filthy pigs reporting to nobody but themselves. Or work in a cubicle 9-6 for middle class salary just monitoring network botnets for the government politician to point fingers, boring. The NSA in the 80's was the last time the US gov had smart people working for them, since then the talent shifted to the private sector who pays much more for nerds.
Really?

Tell that to the chinese.....they steal many many billions of dollars in IP every year from private US companies not to mention US Gov/.mil sites.

Go google "OPM Hack" and then tell us how much the chinese suck at hacking
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