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      02-13-2017, 01:49 PM   #1167
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
So - Reuters (the Independent is quoting Reuters in this) talked to three people who had spoken with other people. But Reuters won't name the three. Other than that, there is no evidence that any of this is true.
True, there's a lot of leaks in this administration. You always have unnamed sources of people close to the White House in every administration leaking tidbits of info to journalists (because obviously, they'd probably lose their jobs if they went public with their identity), but for some reason there's a lot more leaks with the Trump administration...there's also leaks talking about how Trump gets extremely pissed with the amount of leaks that are going around (rightfully so).

That said, could I believe that Trump would, during a discussion with Putin, pull stuff out of his ass when he gets to a subject he knows nothing about, then pivot to just talking about himself?

Absolutely.
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      02-13-2017, 03:03 PM   #1168
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
True, there's a lot of leaks in this administration. You always have unnamed sources of people close to the White House in every administration leaking tidbits of info to journalists (because obviously, they'd probably lose their jobs if they went public with their identity), but for some reason there's a lot more leaks with the Trump administration...there's also leaks talking about how Trump gets extremely pissed with the amount of leaks that are going around (rightfully so).

That said, could I believe that Trump would, during a discussion with Putin, pull stuff out of his ass when he gets to a subject he knows nothing about, then pivot to just talking about himself?

Absolutely.
All those leaks are made up fake news, clearly, made to smear Trump and his administration.
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      02-13-2017, 03:06 PM   #1169
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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I don't think anyone wants to see refugees suffer. But it's one thing to help, and another entirely to bring them to our countries, support them, make them citizens (via asylum laws), and on and on. There are far too many worldwide for any (or all) civilized countries to do that. And when countries like Saudi Arabia don't do their share, it makes it worse.

To date, many of the refugees brought in simply refuse to assimilate.

On top of those issues, Americans are fatigued by decades of illegal immigrants.

There's 330M people in the US. We can't save the world, and shouldn't die trying. The unfortunate reality is the ME has been at war with each other for millennia - we aren't likely to change that.
If you don't like want to take any responsibility at all then stop dropping bombs on them.

Last edited by Goneinsixtyseconds; 02-13-2017 at 03:15 PM..
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      02-13-2017, 03:14 PM   #1170
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Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
I agree with most of what you have said, however a couple of points of note.

With Syria, the two options are as a Refugee or as an Asylum seeker, anyone going via the refugee route is provided a 5 year support package and a minimum of two levels of screening.

http://researchbriefings.files.parli...05/SN06805.pdf

The entire refugee process takes time and must involve the UNHCR and yes takes time but this takes part at refugee camps.

These camps we help fund via 2bn, there is a lot of support provided at these camps, the German witch buggered up a lot of work the UNHCR were putting in place.

Asylum seekers arrive here unvetted and must be placed in detention centres until cleared and places in community found.

By taking the Asylum route they bugger up the entire process and divert resources from the refugee process.

Yes numbers start out small as it is a very controlled process and has been used from Vietamese refugees, Kosovans etc. It works its tried and tested, however do gooders expect everyone to be let in, that way just lies chaos.


In regards to bombing, it's an unfortunate side effect of conflict, however care is actually taken to avoid collateral damage.

Remember it is not just the UK and US bombing, the French, UAE and others are also very active in the air campaign. When a 500Ib, 1000Ib, 2000Ib LGB goes off it does obviously create a large blast zone, however nearly (if not all) all ordnance dropped by the west is precision guided.

However with ISIS doing the usual thing of using civilians as shields, then they will be killed or injured.

There is a huge difference between the Russian / Syrian air campaign to ours.

The West totally fucked up by not bombing Assad from day one, Obama and the American foreign policy was utterly crap and Putin totally got his own way.

Other than that, yep War sucks people get killed to prevent other people getting killed.
I don't dispute any of that and it really isn't news to me. I only mentioned the uk and the us because I am from the uk and my post was aimed at someone from the US. Just stating that bombs must have collateral damage doesn't mean we should ignore people we have helped displace or maim, and they are people, just like anyone else, you or me.

As for saying they "bugger" things up by claiming asylum instead, how is that their fault!? They didn't create these systems. What would you do for your own family? Stay in a camp and risk the lives of your families for months or years to follow due process!?
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      02-13-2017, 03:43 PM   #1171
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Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
I don't dispute any of that and it really isn't news to me. I only mentioned the uk and the us because I am from the uk and my post was aimed at someone from the US. Just stating that bombs must have collateral damage doesn't mean we should ignore people we have helped displace or maim, and they are people, just like anyone else, you or me.

As for saying they "bugger" things up by claiming asylum instead, how is that their fault!? They didn't create these systems. What would you do for your own family? Stay in a camp and risk the lives of your families for months or years to follow due process!?
They are far safer in camps than trying to get across the Aegean, then run the gauntlet of the Balkans and European winters. I would wager far more die getting to Germany than do in UNHCR camps.

So yes the economic migrant lot bugger things up for genuine asylum seekers, who in turn bugger up those needing refugee status. Invariably it's the same vetting agency and other support people, likely same budget as well.

A lifeboat only holds so many people before those trying to clamber in sink the bloody thing.

What needed to be done the west failed to do, that was to remove Assad before the Russians and Iranians became heavily embroiled in the war.

But no the US had a crap president and our parliament would not join in and help with the French.
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      02-13-2017, 03:59 PM   #1172
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Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
If you don't like want to take any responsibility at all then stop dropping bombs on them.
I find it funny that when people stop dying, they at some point get over the horrible things they've seen.

Why does b, you and I see this whole mess in a different light? We have a huge in pour of refugees but we still rather take them than let them die. And why doesn't the USA realize we are carrying a burden

Oh fuck it. They get killed, we don't, we take, take and take.
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      02-13-2017, 04:03 PM   #1173
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I'm ok with the ban, i dont want to see radicals roaming the streets like in London.

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      02-13-2017, 04:06 PM   #1174
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I'm ok with the ban, i dont want to see radicals roaming the streets like in London.

You realize that's photoshopped to hell right?

Nevermind, don't let the obvious get in the way of your xenophobia.
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      02-13-2017, 04:22 PM   #1175
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I'm ok with the ban, i dont want to see radicals roaming the streets like in London.

You can't beat a false news generator.

It must be said, from all your various posts, it's exactly people like you that take the Great away from America.
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      02-13-2017, 04:22 PM   #1176
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
You realize that's photoshopped to hell right?

Nevermind, don't let the obvious get in the way of your xenophobia.
Was president obama xenophobic when he cut off the Cuban political refugees? I never heard a peep out of any liberals when the dirtball pulled that stunt in the closing days of his administration.
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      02-13-2017, 04:32 PM   #1177
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Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
You can't beat a false news generator.

It must be said, from all your various posts, it's exactly people like you that take the Great away from America.
You're making it sound like you as a Muslim, have the right to come to the US. I voted for Trump and i support him.
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      02-13-2017, 04:34 PM   #1178
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Originally Posted by anglo View Post
You're making it sound like you as a Muslim, have the right to come to the US. I voted for Trump and i support him.
I guess this video was photoshopped too. Lol

[u2b]4ttHOVh.jpg[/u2b]
How exactly does it make me sound like I am a Muslim?

From my perspective, that's actually humorous.
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      02-13-2017, 04:44 PM   #1179
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Is this photoshopped too? Lol

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      02-13-2017, 04:54 PM   #1180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
They are far safer in camps than trying to get across the Aegean, then run the gauntlet of the Balkans and European winters. I would wager far more die getting to Germany than do in UNHCR camps.

So yes the economic migrant lot bugger things up for genuine asylum seekers, who in turn bugger up those needing refugee status. Invariably it's the same vetting agency and other support people, likely same budget as well.

A lifeboat only holds so many people before those trying to clamber in sink the bloody thing.

What needed to be done the west failed to do, that was to remove Assad before the Russians and Iranians became heavily embroiled in the war.

But no the US had a crap president and our parliament would not join in and help with the French.
It's easy to say all this when you aren't in their position.

You do know that most of the people who try and get on those boats know the huge risks that they are taking......but the majority are so desperate and scared they do it anyway.

I suspect there might be a flaw with your rosey picture of the refugee camps.

If seriously fucks me off when they are talked about like they are just a statistic, or worse, like they are mindless idiots.

Our country just treated them exactly like a number. We took 350, when we promised to take 3,000 of the most needy. Not only heartless, but we're also liars now. Imagine if you were on that list, or thought you were on it, and about to come here when this was stopped.

Our political actions are as bad as Trumps. We just have better vocabularies and sound brighter when we're delivering our own stupid shit.
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      02-13-2017, 04:55 PM   #1181
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
You realize that's photoshopped to hell right?

Nevermind, don't let the obvious get in the way of your xenophobia.

How am i a xenophobe if i'm okay with Chinese, Koreans, Germans... coming here but dont want people whose religion abuse women, gays, Christians?
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      02-13-2017, 04:56 PM   #1182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
If you don't like want to take any responsibility at all then stop dropping bombs on them.
And if we like stopped bombing Syria, you would be among the rest of the bleeding hearts asking why we aren't doing a damn thing to help the poor, oppressed people under Assad or ISIS' rule in Syria. Can't win with you libtards...

Quote:
I find it funny that when people stop dying, they at some point get over the horrible things they've seen.

Why does b, you and I see this whole mess in a different light? We have a huge in pour of refugees but we still rather take them than let them die. And why doesn't the USA realize we are carrying a burden

Oh fuck it. They get killed, we don't, we take, take and take.
Oh we recognize the burden you've taken on...and, more importantly, the consequences of doing so. We aren't a part of the EU and do not share a binding requirement of utterly stupid immigration\refugee acceptance policies. So pardon us if we'd like to step back and re-evaluate.
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      02-13-2017, 05:38 PM   #1183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
I don't think anyone wants to see refugees suffer. But it's one thing to help, and another entirely to bring them to our countries, support them, make them citizens (via asylum laws), and on and on. There are far too many worldwide for any (or all) civilized countries to do that. And when countries like Saudi Arabia don't do their share, it makes it worse.

To date, many of the refugees brought in simply refuse to assimilate.

On top of those issues, Americans are fatigued by decades of illegal immigrants.

There's 330M people in the US. We can't save the world, and shouldn't die trying. The unfortunate reality is the ME has been at war with each other for millennia - we aren't likely to change that.
If you don't like want to take any responsibility at all then stop dropping bombs on them.
I don't remember us bombing Burma, Congo, Bhutan, or Iran? Yet these places have sent us the largest number of refugees.
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      02-13-2017, 05:42 PM   #1184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex440 View Post
If you don't like want to take any responsibility at all then stop dropping bombs on them.
I find it funny that when people stop dying, they at some point get over the horrible things they've seen.

Why does b, you and I see this whole mess in a different light? We have a huge in pour of refugees but we still rather take them than let them die. And why doesn't the USA realize we are carrying a burden

Oh fuck it. They get killed, we don't, we take, take and take.
What are "we" taking? Did I misunderstand?
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      02-13-2017, 05:47 PM   #1185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
And if we like stopped bombing Syria, you would be among the rest of the bleeding hearts asking why we aren't doing a damn thing to help the poor, oppressed people under Assad or ISIS' rule in Syria. Can't win with you libtards...



Oh we recognize the burden you've taken on...and, more importantly, the consequences of doing so. We aren't a part of the EU and do not share a binding requirement of utterly stupid immigration\refugee acceptance policies. So pardon us if we'd like to step back and re-evaluate.
And this is exactly where I started. I was asked why I don't like the current far right politics of the US and other countries.

This is it.

I didn't say that ISIS didn't need stopping. But I do have a problem with just dropping bombs and having absolutely no humanity about the side affects that has. If you can't help an innocent child who has seen half his family blown to pieces then I despair for our futures.

People are hard as nails right now, just care about themselves and couldn't give a fuck about anyone else.

At the moment it just seems that right wing political views = psychopath.

I'm sure it wasn't always that way.
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      02-13-2017, 05:53 PM   #1186
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Is this photoshopped too? Lol

Lol at violent fucking funny.

You ever been to a local derby football match in the UK?

That's violent, that video was the like the WI on a summer picnic son.


So anyhow, what part of your very small and partially illiterate brain thinks I am a Muslim?
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      02-13-2017, 05:59 PM   #1187
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Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Lol at violent fucking funny.

You ever been to a local derby football match in the UK?

That's violent, that video was the like the WI on a summer picnic son.


So anyhow, what part of your very small and partially illiterate brain thinks I am a Muslim?
You make it sound like you think it's offensive that someone might think that you're a Muslim?
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      02-13-2017, 06:01 PM   #1188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anglo View Post
I'm ok with the ban, i dont want to see radicals roaming the streets like in London.

It's photoshopped, if you know what that is. Why don't you keep yourself busy posting nude women on the cool pics thread, and jacking off to them. Pretty radical stuff, might change the world.
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